Re: Where is Khurasan Actually? What role do the Taliban, Pakistan and others have?
i just would like to reiterate the horse aspect. it is as valid as the flags and the nebulous 'khorasan' location. infact there is some stress laid on the horses...
*"... the people (under the leadership of this flag) will tie their horses with the Olive Trees between Bait-e-Lahya and Harasta. We asked are there any Olive trees between these places: He said, “If there isn’t then soon it will grow so that those people (of Khurasan) will come and tie their horses there.”
*
Now this cannot be interpreted as not being literal, horses cant be, for example, the pickup trucks that Taleban go around in. Because of the Olive trees. That will grow so that the horses can be tied to them. One can argue that olive trees could also be a metaphor, but I cannot imagine what for.
So as long as we are analysing flag colour and geographic origin as part of our criterion for judging their feasibility as the group spoken of, we should also always consider as an eligibility criterion the question of what mode of transport they use, and what kind of trees they tie this mode of transport to.
My own feeling is that people belonging to this region often want to use this hadis for propaganda purposes, and therefore its quite an easy thing to do if you are willing to have a black flag. We shouldnt allow them half measures though, and should insist on the horses too.
Re: Where is Khurasan Actually? What role do the Taliban, Pakistan and others have?
would the shias of the time have done such a thing as to fabricate the hadees
and is there anything else to suggest significance of this region
however one cuts it, i dont think the ummah is absolved of any responsibilty to bring peace and to take responsibilty of this region. the attitude of the ummah is clear, and by my understanding the ummah is acting unislamically. so if anyone says the 'islamic caliphate' is currently very small in eastern khurasan, i'd be inclined to believe them. riba free and with fatwas of being the only shariat ruled state
Re: Where is Khurasan Actually? What role do the Taliban, Pakistan and others have?
its easy to be riba free when you have the most ****ed up economy outside of central Africa. you can have pretty much any economic model when there is no economic growth to speak of.
not as if the 90s were glory days economically for Afghanistan either. their big beef against America at the time and the reason they blew up their statues was that they werent getting (presumably riba based) aid. So nuts to that.
Re: Where is Khurasan Actually? What role do the Taliban, Pakistan and others have?
not really my point, whether or not destroying the statues was justified. i remember interviews of spokesperson at the time saying things like they dont help us in our economy but want to protect the statues and so on. clearly were pissed off at not getting aid/development contracts from the US, both of which involve riba.
Re: Where is Khurasan Actually? What role do the Taliban, Pakistan and others have?
oh no. Im just pointing out the fiction that any economy they construct is riba free. when you dont have an economy, you can call it anything you want. other standards I have for them is to stop treating women like cattle, avoid wholesale killing of groups of people they dislike, focus a bit more on development of their country rather than blowing it up to achieve power etc etc. They are partners in turning Afghanistan into the screwed up place that it is, and equally to blame for every starving person, every girl denied education, every non-combatant killed.
Please dont think that my focus on their economic policies (in a vacuum) in any way indicates that this is the extent to which they fail, by a very long way, my standards.
Re: Where is Khurasan Actually? What role do the Taliban, Pakistan and others have?
wholesale killing of groups of people they dislike - afaik thats what we were told, and the truth regarding it ends there
perhaps you should investigate the 'de-breasting' of hazara women by the northern alliance
the questions do arise when discussing this form of rule, that if Quran and sunnah doesnt support their actions, any allegations should be taken with a pinch of salt. they simply do not intent to go against Quranpak and sunnah, intrepretations aside
afaik girls schools were planned, when more money was available
So does the truth regarding the ‘planned’ girls schools. i dont know any taleban first hand, but you can find pretty detailed descriptions of their killings by Muslim journalists. See this.
so who said the northern alliance meet any standards of decency either?
they simply dont acknowledge their intent to go against Quran Pak and Sunnah as going against Quran Pak and Sunnah. just as zardari doesnt acknowledge his intent go against Quran Pak and Sunnah when taking 10% of every contract.
One can rationalize anything.
Actions speak louder than words. Girls were consistently expelled from schools during their rule. And to this day wherever taleban are most active (southern afghanistan, fata etc) girls schools, girls going to school and teachers at girls schools are almost always under attack.
Re: Where is Khurasan Actually? What role do the Taliban, Pakistan and others have?
Khorasan is most of Afghanistan and eastern Iran. The shia cultural & religious center, Mashhad, is the modern-day capital of Iranian Khorasan province; its holiest mosques have black flags erected on top of the dome. Afghan Taliban also have black flags. According to Islamic Scripture, black flag represents war and white flag represents peace. ISIS and various other militant groups also have black flags but do not originate or operate in or from Khorasan. Haqqani Network operates in the area and uses black flags.
Pakistan’s role is indirect. Pakistan itself does not fall within the boundaries of Khorasan but is heavily tied to Afghan politics. Both the Afghan Taliban and Haqqani network were created by Pakistan; ISI still supports both groups covertly and is the main source of financing its warfare and training as well. Afghan Taliban leader Mullah Omar was trained by ISI agent Colonel Imam. Imam was assassinated in 2011 by an unknown entity that calls itself Asian Tigers. Nobody knows where Omar is except that he’s still alive and operational.
The NATO-led invasion of Afghanistan saw the disintegration of the Northern Alliance (Iranian proxy). Taliban remained, still there, and even the Americans know that after NATO leaves, the puppet government will fall within months to the Taliban who have both more popular support from locals and more strength than ANA (Afghan national army).
The disintegration of the Northern Alliance was followed by the aligning of Iranian diplomacy in favor of the Afghan Taliban because they had a common enemy among them - the Americans. Apart from their sectarian differences, both the Iranians (who will have a bigger role to play than Pakistan) and the Taliban (as of recently) share some common foreign policies: eventual conquest of Israel & solidarity with Palestinians and opposition to ISIS.
What I believe is gonna happen in Afghanistan is that the US-backed government will collapse within a year and Taliban will be back in power. They will consolidate their internal factions and have covert backing of both Pakistan and Iran, and Iran will facilitate the Taliban’s entry into Iraq & Syria where they must again gain popular power and consolidate the oppositions (under one banner), and then enter into Lebanon where an Iran-friendly Hezbollah is already well established.
That’s just a rough idea. Iran is the only country at the moment capable of fighting Israel and the only one looking to instigate the process. Then it shouldn’t come as a surprise that they might already be on their way; could use Taliban as a proxy.
Re: Where is Khurasan Actually? What role do the Taliban, Pakistan and others have?
Way to revive an old thread.
Having said that, the Hadith, if true, clearly refers to the Abbasids who raised an army in Khurasan under a black banners and conquered their way across the Muslim world and raised their black banner in Jerusalem.
Re: Where is Khurasan Actually? What role do the Taliban, Pakistan and others have?
Khorasan in strict sense means the iranian one, in historical sources the word 'khorasani" has been used for persians of that region. Pashtuns are not khorasanis , but in 15th century Abdalis/Durranis moved westward from Koh e suliman (baluchestan) and occupied Herat. Later Ghilzais expelled them from Kandhar and Abdalis moved towards Herat , a khorasanain city. In 18th century , Nadir shah exiled the Abdalis/durranis to present day khorasan province of Iran near mashad . When nadir Shah conquered Kandhar with the help of Abdalis, he allowed them to take Kandhar and in return exiled hotaki section of ghilzais to Khorasan region of Iran. 1n 1763, karmim khan zund, the ruler of Iran, slaughtered all Afghan settlers of iran which ended any connection of afghans/pashtuns with west6ren khorasan. But the Herat and kandhar went into possessions of Durrani empire.
Re: Where is Khurasan Actually? What role do the Taliban, Pakistan and others have?
What I find interesting about the quoted hadees is that the Prophet (PBUH) is not referring to that army as the “good” army. What if this army of the end times carrying black flags would be the army of the dajjal - the great deceiver?
Re: Where is Khurasan Actually? What role do the Taliban, Pakistan and others have?
The black flag was that of the Banu Abbas and they were clearly not a good army. They did many killings and murders without lawful reason; including the murder of Abu Muslim, the general who led their army to victory over the Umayyads. After the Umayyads were defeated Abu Muslim was summoned before the Caliph and murdered without ever being judged and found guilty by a court of any crime, merely because the Caliph was afraid of him.
The Abbasids within 2 generations introduced many vices to the court of the Caliphs, and ultimately led to the imposition of Mutazillite beliefs and the torture of righteous Muslims who opposed the Mutazillites… truly a force of evil.