After a discussion last month on Bin Laden and contrasting views on where exactly he is, I opened a poll to establish typical opinions of GS posters on the whereabouts of Bin Laden. Results for that poll can be seen here
Although the majority agrees with a lot of western analysts that he is somewhere in Waziristan, there is an interesting diversity of views. I had kept the poll deliberately broad, inspite of that “None of the Above” got the second largest vote.
49% guppies think hes either in Afghanistan or in Pakistan, which generally agrees with the American viewpoint, with more people leaning towards Waziristan.
32% however, think that Bin Laden is either dead or is operating with CIA/generic western intelligence agency while the WOT is being waged for altogether different reasons. This is excluding the "None of the Above"s, Im sure a number of whom would have views not very different from this idea.
To the first group I’d like to ask why they think Bin Laden has eluded capture for so long? If its for lack of trying, why dont American forces try harder? It has to be a bit more than simple incompetance, we are talking about a megapower trying to catch a guy who operates with mostly decades if not centuries old technology and methods. Is it a matter of political expedience?
To the second group I want to ask how they personally feel about Bin Laden. Do you think, regardless of whether or not he exists anymore, that he was a good person? How much of a role do you think he played in this conflict? Was he a completely fictional character, was he a fictional character based on a real character, was a real character who got misled?
Re: Where is Bin Laden II - Poll Results Discussion
To the first group I'd like to ask why they think Bin Laden has eluded capture for so long? If its for lack of trying, why dont American forces try harder? It has to be a bit more than simple incompetance, we are talking about a megapower trying to catch a guy who operates with mostly decades if not centuries old technology and methods. Is it a matter of political expedience?
hi.
how many green berets, marine recon forces, navy seals, delta force troops, etc. are currently in pakistan hunting him down?
Re: Where is Bin Laden II - Poll Results Discussion
hello nikhil sahab. first off, did you vote in the poll? if so, which option was it?
i didn't vote. i never saw the thread.
i don't know if he's in waziristan and i don't know if he's being sheltered by the ISI. i would've voted for "hiding in pakistan".
exactly who knows exactly what is impossible to say. whatever the details may be, i find it very difficult to believe that nobody in the ISI has any clue as to his whereabouts and status. direct knowledge and/or support is more than plausible.
to be frank, i'm not sure it's in pakistan's interest to deliver him to the US or aid the US effort at all. it certainly isn't in musharraf's.
Re: Where is Bin Laden II - Poll Results Discussion
how do you factor in the US in your analysis? are they simply unaware that Musharraf is playing double cross? Are they aware and turning a blind eye, if so, to what end?
im sure I've heard your version of the world many times, on american media even. why wouldnt they see through that?
usually america has very little problem getting pakistan to toe the line, any line. why not in this case?
Re: Where is Bin Laden II - Poll Results Discussion
how do you factor in the US in your analysis? are they simply unaware that Musharraf is playing double cross? Are they aware and turning a blind eye, if so, to what end?
they know. but there isn't much that can be done when there is no hard evidence.
what can be done? i'm sure US gov't and intelligence officials have gone blue in the face pressuring pakistan behind closed doors. there are more than enough disincentives ensuring that pakistani leaders remain minimally helpful in the US effort...be they fiscal reasons, religious reasons, political survival reasons, strategic reasons, etc.
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im sure I've heard your version of the world many times, on american media even. why wouldnt they see through that?
usually america has very little problem getting pakistan to toe the line, any line. why not in this case?
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i don't agree with this at all. pakistan toes the american line reluctantly, half-assedly, and superficially.
and of course, even if the pakistani government was committed 110%, there is always the question of whether or not whiskey-swigging pervez musharraf even has total control of all those jihadi-soft namazi ISI officials in the first place.
Re: Where is Bin Laden II - Poll Results Discussion
Playground to catch osama is somewhere, and action taken is elsewhere(to show the world that they are doing everything to catch him). Till then, get all aid, grants, C-130 J, bell helicopters, F-16's, sniper targetting pods, AMRAAMS as "assistance". and in the process, innocents get killed which will only alienate the people.
and the present government of US is arrogant and lack foresightedness. Messed up in Iraak and has been continously spending money non stop for the sake of WOT, which is making investors run away from US economy making Dollar to continuously fall. Any further attempt of attacking one more country, will only further take the financial situation of US down. So this financial stuff could be one of the reasons for putting hopes on musharraf to do their job.
Re: Where is Bin Laden II - Poll Results Discussion
they know. but there isn't much that can be done when there is no hard evidence.
what can be done? i'm sure US gov't and intelligence officials have gone blue in the face pressuring pakistan behind closed doors. there are more than enough disincentives ensuring that pakistani leaders remain minimally helpful in the US effort...be they fiscal reasons, religious reasons, political survival reasons, strategic reasons, etc.
I cant believe that a country that invades two countries to get a guy and his cohorts is merely going blue in the face privately pressuring a third country with hesitant slaps on the wrist if any at all and bucket loads of incentives that dont seem to stop.
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i don't agree with this at all. pakistan toes the american line reluctantly, half-assedly, and superficially.
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aside from this issue, can you gives examples?
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and of course, even if the pakistani government was committed 110%, there is always the question of whether or not whiskey-swigging pervez musharraf even has total control of all those jihadi-soft namazi ISI officials in the first place.
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Who in the current ISI setup can you identify as having jihadi leanings? The jihadi sympathisers of the 80s and 90s are retired or close to it, a few of the vocal/visible ones are not serving. The new COAS on the other hand, who used to head ISI, does not fit your description at all.