When to say enough is enough?

[Eastern_Dresses]

So there are a lot of threads that suggests how bad most of the designers/suppliers/vendors are because they delay the order, are not communicative enough, charge too much, charge too little so it must be fake etc etc and since they all are doing it on purpose. There is no learning curve for them. Since they planned to open an online store, they should know everything first up.

I have been dealing with international clients (mostly goras but occasionally Pakistanis and Indians as well) for IT and ITES for over 9 years now and it has its ups and downs but at the end of the day its about mutual understanding and there is always a solution to any problem that they have with me or vice versa.

Unfortunately I cannot say the same about my retail customers (from Eastern Dresses)

They don’t know what customer services means. (And I think that can become a very controversial topic here which isn’t my intention) Here is their version of Customer Service and their experience with online vendors in general (i have phrased it as they are talking to a vendor about their expectations)

Before payment is made.

1. Convince me that you are an excellent vendor, that you will process the order as per my specs, you cannot have any emergency, you will pick up my calls at 1 AM if you have to because I am going to pay you 10k for a dress.
2. The prices you posted must be a place holder so this is where my bargaining would start. So if it says PKR 15,000 it means I should be able to get it from you in PKR 10,000.
3. I saw this lawn print for PKR 500 in the market and you are selling it for 1500. How unfair of you. The plain fabric that is used on the shirt comes for free, also you got your own tailor so that expense is minus as well. Buttons or accessories you would have spare anyway and any profit margin, what are you talking about. You are going to actually think about making profit selling a lawn shirt? No way, that should be sold at the actual price you know.
4. I will delay the payment but since I already said its done, it means you should start processing the order. Oh and by the way, I can call any time to tell you that I changed my mind and now the color should be blue not green. But wait it would be too simple of change that way, I changed my mind and I want to order another dress altogether now and mind you, don’t delay it because I have a sister’s wedding to attend and I need your dress.

After payment is made

1. OMG, I have made the payment and I have started my count down. So now, I am going to call you day and night, keep on sending you texts and emails.
2. I can use whatever language I want but remember you are a vendor and you should be respectful. I can call you a fraud but you should be tactful in replying to that. When I yell at you, you should apologize and say, won’t happen again. I will call your stuff trashy and to that, you can just look away and not notice that I said anything like that. Alternatively you can tell me its a nice trash but don’t you dare contradict with me because I am your client.
3. After product is received. I was bashing you for a while about how bad you are, on a public forum so I will write a quick note telling everyone that you did an alright or good job. A one liner should be enough for your reputation you know because everyone who comes on the page or the thread has the time to read all of the posts, starting from where I started cursing you to the end one liner where it says, it was all fine in the end.
4. Oh and by the way, all those potential customers that I scared away with all the (beautiful) things I said about you in public are all your fault you know. You should not be processing any other orders since you have mine and that should be your priority.
5. You are already rich enough since you are managing an online store with customers like me who don’t want to pay much since money doesn’t go on trees for us, but want excellent customer support because this is what I get here.

P.s. This post isn’t based on a particular incident. Its the general attitude of most of the clients I have come across so far. I sincerely hope things will be better in future though.

If anyone else has any points to add, please feel free.

[prototype]

Re: When to say enough is enough?

@Eastern_Dresses

So there are a lot of threads that suggests how bad most of the designers/suppliers/vendors are because they delay the order, are not communicative enough, charge too much, charge too little so it must be fake etc etc and since they all are doing it on purpose. There is no learning curve for them. Since they planned to open an online store, they should know everything first up.

I have been dealing with international clients (mostly goras but occasionally Pakistanis and Indians as well) for IT and ITES for over 9 years now and it has its ups and downs but at the end of the day its about mutual understanding and there is always a solution to any problem that they have with me or vice versa.

Unfortunately I cannot say the same about my retail customers (from Eastern Dresses)

They don’t know what customer services means. (And I think that can become a very controversial topic here which isn’t my intention) Here is their version of Customer Service and their experience with online vendors in general (i have phrased it as they are talking to a vendor about their expectations)

Before payment is made.

1. Convince me that you are an excellent vendor, that you will process the order as per my specs, you cannot have any emergency, you will pick up my calls at 1 AM if you have to because I am going to pay you 10k for a dress.
2. The prices you posted must be a place holder so this is where my bargaining would start. So if it says PKR 15,000 it means I should be able to get it from you in PKR 10,000.
3. I saw this lawn print for PKR 500 in the market and you are selling it for 1500. How unfair of you. The plain fabric that is used on the shirt comes for free, also you got your own tailor so that expense is minus as well. Buttons or accessories you would have spare anyway and any profit margin, what are you talking about. You are going to actually think about making profit selling a lawn shirt? No way, that should be sold at the actual price you know.
4. I will delay the payment but since I already said its done, it means you should start processing the order. Oh and by the way, I can call any time to tell you that I changed my mind and now the color should be blue not green. But wait it would be too simple of change that way, I changed my mind and I want to order another dress altogether now and mind you, don’t delay it because I have a sister’s wedding to attend and I need your dress.

After payment is made

1. OMG, I have made the payment and I have started my count down. So now, I am going to call you day and night, keep on sending you texts and emails.
2. I can use whatever language I want but remember you are a vendor and you should be respectful. I can call you a fraud but you should be tactful in replying to that. When I yell at you, you should apologize and say, won’t happen again. I will call your stuff trashy and to that, you can just look away and not notice that I said anything like that. Alternatively you can tell me its a nice trash but don’t you dare contradict with me because I am your client.
3. After product is received. I was bashing you for a while about how bad you are, on a public forum so I will write a quick note telling everyone that you did an alright or good job. A one liner should be enough for your reputation you know because everyone who comes on the page or the thread has the time to read all of the posts, starting from where I started cursing you to the end one liner where it says, it was all fine in the end.
4. Oh and by the way, all those potential customers that I scared away with all the (beautiful) things I said about you in public are all your fault you know. You should not be processing any other orders since you have mine and that should be your priority.
5. You are already rich enough since you are managing an online store with customers like me who don’t want to pay much since money doesn’t go on trees for us, but want excellent customer support because this is what I get here.

P.s. This post isn’t based on a particular incident. Its the general attitude of most of the clients I have come across so far. I sincerely hope things will be better in future though.

If anyone else has any points to add, please feel free.

Must be difficult for you !! My experience as compared to yours: I have yet to deal with such a customer Alhamdulillah.

-If they call at odd hours, I politely tell them the local time and the timings suitable for me to talk to them and never had a problem thereafter.

-I let them know I would start working their order when I get the payment and will complete by 3 or 4 or 5 weeks (depending on my prior commitments,etc) and usually keep them updated with pictures after the dyeing/kaam/embroidery is done and keep telling the approximate time when the order will be completed so there is no haunting from them with numerous emails/texts.

-this might sound strange but I hardly have people haggling or asking to bring prices down or confronting by telling that they saw a particular thing for 500rs which I am selling for 1500rs Alhamdulillah..not even for bridals ! So I think this solely depends on having justified and legit profit margins since in this era of internet,etc, most of the people are well aware of what a particular thing costs and know we,vendors need to keep a commission/profit margins for all the running as well so they hardly negotiate unless they feel the need to do it.

-about bad reviews/remarks, I have seen them them only when vendors make a blunder with the order and hide away the response can be exaggerated at times but then,no one complains pointlessly. They only get on to public bashing when we ignore their PMs,emails or FB msgs, no ?

-about the payment,not good for business but I am not particular about getting the payment before I start with the work with my regular/old customers. My aim is to complete it in time for the event and except for once or twice, NO one ran away with the money so far Alhamdulillah X infinity. But that’s me !! For all vendors,if you tell the customers in the beginning upfront and clearly that you wont change the order once finalise and wont start working on it unless you get full/half of the payment (whatever your policy is)and make it clear that the time you committed to complete the order will start AFTER the money is sent, that should make you justified if you refuse to go ahead with the order if the policies specified are not followed.

SO, I think all the mishaps and hiccups in the ordering process can be sorted by proper approach.

[prototype]

Re: When to say enough is enough?

I have to admit that customer service is ZERO here in pakistan- both on seller’s and buyer’s end. dono aik se barh kay aik hain but it has been awesome dealing with overseas customers. If they are particular about their order, they expect the same from vendors and this is what they pay us for, right ?

[SaadiaB]

Re: When to say enough is enough?

ED, if u are having such a hard time with customers, then you are in the wrong business in my opinion.

[brummiebird]

Re: When to say enough is enough?

Hey ED,
like i said in a previous post,n you have got to have a thick skin when it come to being a vendor but at the same time as buyers we also have a responsability to be courteous and respectful. in terns of getting calls at random hours, it might be worth setting up a voicemail telling people what you're working hours are. I think in terms of haggling i have asked in the past with vendors if there is any "Gunjaaish" in the price and all have responded in a very courteous manner. As buyers "If you dont ask, you dont get", so i guess its all about remaining calm and professional. I know that probably doesnt sound fair but unfortunately its a very competitive market out there.

I also think its about have a clear set of policies on things like pricing, timescales, delivery etc. In this way a buyers know exactly where they stand. Good luck ED, stick with it

[Eastern_Dresses]

Re: When to say enough is enough?

@prototype

I have to admit that customer service is ZERO here in pakistan- both on seller’s and buyer’s end. dono aik se barh kay aik hain but it has been awesome dealing with overseas customers. If they are particular about their order, they expect the same from vendors and this is what they pay us for, right ?

Thanks for the detailed reply was expecting one from you.

@SaadiaB

ED, if u are having such a hard time with customers, then you are in the wrong business in my opinion.

Saadia, I appreciate the comment but would like to disagree with that. If I gave the impression that I am fed up with this so should call it quits, that wasn’t the intention. If quitting now is one option, never starting was another. Made a choice and would like to stick around for a while to be sure that its not for me. So far it didn’t happen though. Yes, I feel that there are so many things that are irrational at this stage but that is eventually going to improve, don’t you think:confused:? I have read a lot of previous threads of all the now famous GS online stores and I can safely say that none of them had a smooth start or at least had some kind of hick-ups initially. (Haven’t come across Ayesha/prototype’s - so may be she is a pro from the beginning :D)

Generally speaking I am very customer service oriented but wanted to figure out if there is a limit to what you should do to make your customers happy. Prototype has some valid points, however, as she stated herself she cannot possibly correlate to the scenario considering her profile and all, plus the market I am currently catering to is quite different from the type of clients on GS.

[prototype]

Re: When to say enough is enough?

^ MashaAllah bolo larki nazar na lagao … aaj he koi garbar ho jayegi kisi order may which DOES happen, my tailors/karigars are not perfect and sometimes important details are ignored/missed ! sub kuch sath sath chalta hai

[Twinklestar]

When to say enough is enough?

It's definitely a tough business but I love beautiful clothes. There is such a powerful rush when I open the shipments i get from Pakistan. As I sort thru the dresses I know which buyers may like what. I am slowly establishing myself and I know I will not become rich selling clothes - it's a part time business but it definitely supports my fashion habit and I take pride in what I do. That said there are definitely difficulties.

Some customers don't know what things cost. An educated customer really is good for business. They know what the price of things in the market is. I don't mind at all when a customer is polite and asks for if there is room to bargain. I will usually accommodate bc I get no benefit in holding on to merchandise. It's very frustrating when someone will expect you to sell way below cost and insult you. However it's part of business and a little politeness will go a long way. There was an instance when I mailed a parcel and it did not get to customer. It was to a new house and there was a problem with packages reaching the customer. The pkg did not reach the customer after 10 days. Customer contacted me and I simply refunded the money no questions asked. A week later the pkg came back to my address saying pkg was undeliverable . I contacted customer. And told her . She did tell me that problem was with her post office and she wanted the package redelivered. Mashallah she is a regular customer. Some lucky vendors do become rich but the rest of us stick around because we love fashion.

[muscat99]

Re: When to say enough is enough?

[quote="Eastern_Dresses, post:5, topic:268851"]

1. I saw this lawn print for PKR 500 in the market and you are selling it for 1500. How unfair of you. The plain fabric that is used on the shirt comes for free, also you got your own tailor so that expense is minus as well. Buttons or accessories you would have spare anyway and any profit margin, what are you talking about. You are going to actually think about making profit selling a lawn shirt? No way, that should be sold at the actual price you know.QUOTE]

Since your tailor has mountains of remnant material, you can add that to my suit for FREE.

[SaadiaB]

Re: When to say enough is enough?

@Eastern_Dresses

Saadia, I appreciate the comment but would like to disagree with that. If I gave the impression that I am fed up with this so should call it quits, that wasn’t the intention. If quitting now is one option, never starting was another. Made a choice and would like to stick around for a while to be sure that its not for me. So far it didn’t happen though. Yes, I feel that there are so many things that are irrational at this stage but that is eventually going to improve, don’t you think:confused:? I have read a lot of previous threads of all the now famous GS online stores and I can safely say that none of them had a smooth start or at least had some kind of hick-ups initially. (Haven’t come across Ayesha/prototype’s - so may be she is a pro from the beginning :D)

Generally speaking I am very customer service oriented but wanted to figure out if there is a limit to what you should do to make your customers happy. Prototype has some valid points, however, as she stated herself she cannot possibly correlate to the scenario considering her profile and all, plus the market I am currently catering to is quite different from the type of clients on GS.

ED you can take out your frustration out but the way you did by making all customer or (almost all) look bad, is the same we would say all vendors over price the values and rip us off. This post gives a bitter taste in the mouth. Yes you may have had some bad experience but I don’t think all customers are na-sukrey as they might sound from your post.

I can say for myself, when I place an order, I dont bother the vendor anymore but I do discuss clearly what I want before hand, so a detailed order is a must before confirming the order from both sides. Vendors should ask any unclear points from the customer and the customer shall not confuse the vendor but be very clear in what he/she wants or if not then he/she would say, look here I am not sure what I want, can you use ur judgment and make the best out of it but .. like for my case I would say, I am not sure what kind of Gala I want but please dont use a Gol Ghalla as I have a round face and it makes my face looks more rounder, so the vender should use its judgment and either make a V or a square gala .. just an example that I am stating here, there must be x other examples.

Another things when I order I dont call/email the vendor asking about the dress I wait the period that was given to me and only after that time I dont hear from the vendor, I do email and ask about it. Just a polite reminder about how is it going ect..

I dont think we are so difficult customers, if u do have had bad experience than you need to define ur policies like make a template and email each customer after the order is placed, saying how u work, how much time u need and answer useless queries only makes the process longer as then u are sitting on the computer more answering emails as doing your actual work like running after kaam walas aur darzis. I bet 90% of the customers will understand and ur work will be easier then.

[Eastern_Dresses]

Re: When to say enough is enough?

@SaadiaB

ED you can take out your frustration out but the way you did by making all customer or (almost all) look bad, is the same we would say all vendors over price the values and rip us off. This post gives a bitter taste in the mouth. Yes you may have had some bad experience but I don't think all customers are na-sukrey as they might sound from your post.

I can say for myself, when I place an order, I don't bother the vendor anymore but I do discuss clearly what I want before hand, so a detailed order is a must before confirming the order from both sides. Vendors should ask any unclear points from the customer and the customer shall not confuse the vendor but be very clear in what he/she wants or if not then he/she would say, look here I am not sure what I want, can you use ur judgment and make the best out of it but .. like for my case I would say, I am not sure what kind of Gala I want but please dont use a Gol Ghalla as I have a round face and it makes my face looks more rounder, so the vender should use its judgment and either make a V or a square gala .. just an example that I am stating here, there must be x other examples.

Another things when I order I dont call/email the vendor asking about the dress I wait the period that was given to me and only after that time I dont hear from the vendor, I do email and ask about it. Just a polite reminder about how is it going ect..

I dont think we are so difficult customers, if u do have had bad experience than you need to define ur policies like make a template and email each customer after the order is placed, saying how u work, how much time u need and answer useless queries only makes the process longer as then u are sitting on the computer more answering emails as doing your actual work like running after kaam walas aur darzis. I bet 90% of the customers will understand and ur work will be easier then.

Sadia, thanks for reviewing my post and taking time out to respond in detail. I am sorry if any of my comments were offensive in any way, I didn't mean to generalize it though. My post is very specific to my experience with retail customers. It might sound like I am exaggerating when I say that except a few customers (precise count is 3), none of the deals has been smooth, each fitting 2 or more points above. I am an active online buyer myself and never gave a hard time to any provider, so much so that one of my purchase got 10 months delayed and yes I followed up every once in a while through emails but never threatened or call them names.

Policies are already there. You discuss and finalized the details, receive an invoice to clear which states the items you ordered, along with instructions, fabric, timeline etc. They are not to be blamed entirely. I have obviously made mistakes, learned from them and tried to rectify them as well.I have absolutely zero to very limited bargaining skills so when someone asks to reduce price for already low margin outfit, I end up making it for the cost price. On a flip side, I have no hassle with my tailor since he's working full time, in-house Any additional dresses are done by another dedicated team of tailors that pick up the stuff from office and drop off the dresses in the office. My karigars sit at a 15 min walk from my office, so for now, I am safe from getting issues from them.

[Muzna]

Re: When to say enough is enough?

So far I have had several experiences of buying suits that were imported by local retailers.
One experience of ordering through a lady that sells from her home in Brampton and one experience of ordering from an online, home-based designer.

Purchasing locally is just like shopping for anything else…you go, you like, you bargain, you buy. That’s pretty much it. Depending on who you are dealing with, sometimes you get a good deal for a nice piece and sometimes you end up paying too much for something that you never really loved but had no choice since it was the best of what was available.

My first experience of buying from someone that sells from her basement has been rather questionable. I was referred to her by a friend and ended up selecting an outfit to be made. I bargained with her because I knew what was available in the market and that her price was inflated. I didn’t press her much on reducing as I figured that I was having the outfit customized in the colour of my choice and it was going to be custom made to fit me. I placed the order. Gave her a small deposit and promised to deliver the balance of the 50% the following week. She agreed and accepted the deadline based on the payment schedule.

Lo and behold the day that I was supposed to visit her and deliver the balance of the deposit, she started hassling my reference about whether or not I was going to pay. She didn’t bother to call me directly even though I had left her my contact information with the order. I saw my friend, as planned, and explained that I was actually trying to reach this woman to let her know that I would be there shortly and if she could let me know that she is home. I was constantly getting voice mail. I even texted her to be sure that she got my message. Apparently she had told my friend that she had to go somewhere and wasn’t going to be home at the time that I as supposed to visit her. Why she didn’t just tell me I have no idea!

In the end I chased her until she told me that she would be home after 8 pm. I called and called between 8 and 9 and no answer…just voice mail. Left messages. At 9 pm when I was scheduled to leave the neighbourhood I just drove over and rang the doorbell. She answered the door all sheepish and said that “Oh…the ringer on the phone must have been off.”

I paid her the balance of the deposit and she informed me right away that my suit would not arrive on time but a week later. She didn’t make this clear to me the day that I placed the order else I would have made sure that she had the balance of the deposit in her hands the next day. (The error here was a lack of communication on her part.)

A week later I asked her the cost of adding a chooridaar pajama to the outfit and she quoted me $30. That means PKRs. 2850. I told her to go ahead and asked for confirmation that this would be in the same jamawar that the suit was trimmed with. She said no, it would be in plain raw silk. I found that to be a bit much and registered my objection to her. She completely avoided answering my objection. No acknowledgement, no explanation, no value statement. Nothing. Just ignored completely. (Maybe I’m out in left-field and don’t know what raw silk costs so I didn’t belabour the point.)

The suit was supposed to arrive last week. I have no idea what it looks like. Haven’t seen or heard anything from this woman except for when I sent her a text last week saying, “Salam abc. Based on your promise to deliver my suit next week, I am assuming that it is almost ready and will be shipped in the next couple of days. Please confirm.”

Reply received: “Yes IA it will be here soon”

Everything goes dark again…

Today I sent the following message: “Salam abc. I assume that my package is on its way. Can you pls send me the tracking number asap?”

Let’s see what reply we get.

The experience with the online, home-based designer has been a pleasure! I am waiting for my package from prototype to arrive. I’ll post the details in her review thread.

The point that I’m trying to make here is two-fold:

• bargaining happens everywhere…I have done it in retail stores as well as online. I will only do it when I have done my homework and feel that I am being charged more than fair market value.

• I will not hassle/chase you if the terms of our agreement are clear. If we have a contract in place and we both stick to the terms that we have agreed upon then there is no need for anyone to be upset about anything.

[Pink_d_Out]

Re: When to say enough is enough?

Set clear guideline how you and your company works. if there aren't any hidden ideas then I don't see why any customer would be objective to anything?

I have been only dealing with online vendors for years thru phone/e-mail/skype and never once 'harassed' a vendor for anything in the middle of the night or during the day
we discuss what I like, I pay them, they provide weekly update (so that's about 3-4 times from the time I have ordered and the time the dress will be completed) on my order i.e fabric colours/embroidery/stitching process and that's good enough for me, my package arrives I give back my feedback, most of the time it's excellent, and that is it :)