When is rape not rape?

Re: When is rape not rape?

What a load of crap! as usual! Back at you.

The "rape" in married couple is a silly idea for the very fact that unless a "legit reason" is there, the spouse has no right to say no.

Outside marriage the person does not have to have any reason to deny since there IS no binding there.

Learn to be civil and try not to show your 'background' whenever open your 'mouth'.

Re: When is rape not rape?

Absolutely.

I know you have said that in last sentence of earlier post as well.
Just to go with same line of thought, Where is morality when there is someone who could be charged with false allegation for any ulterior motive??

With two persons involved in an alleged crime, there has to be benefit of doubt given to the alleged criminal and burden of proof is on the accuser. Unfortunately people get away with such crimes even in some very good justice system.

Re: When is rape not rape?

I barely ever post in life1 but I just had to..

Diwana first of all your last sentence in your reply to Jaanwar was extremely rude and uncalled for.
Secondly I think you are only reading what you agree with in psyah's post. Actually you did highlight it but you obviously still missed the point. He said "In marriage all of the above apply plus." Now lets look at what is all of the above "Before the act - There needs to be consent, During the act - There needs to be consent, After the act - No feeling of exploitation." So obviously if a spouse does not give consent it is indeed not morally correct even in marriage. Yes, I understand in Islam you have to have a legitimate reason to say no to sexual relationships with your spouse BUT no where have I ever read that one is allowed to force themselves on their partner. What you are saying is if there is no legit reason you are free to go ahead and abuse your partner which i neither morally, legally or Islamically correct.

Re: When is rape not rape?

I think you missed his rude post altogether.

RE: Psyah's post. I read it all and agreed to all. I copied all but commented on last bold part.

Where did you see problem there is my next question..

I never said 'force' is justified. I said, there is no right for a spouse to deny sex without legit reason. But outside marriage, there is no need to have any reason whatsoever to deny. You added the forced part yourself. Now this rape issue will never come ever in marriage if spouse is giving what is required by other spouse as fulfillment of his or her duty. Where else spouse should go for satisfying need then?

Re: When is rape not rape?

I saw his post but he didn't say anything about your background.

The problem is you say you agree with psyah but say rape is a silly idea in marriage. That's conflicting.

Re: When is rape not rape?

Just explained above.

Read the middle part of his post. "What if someday your wife ass rapes you with a strap-on, " what does it show? What kind of people talk like that? :smack:

Re: When is rape not rape?

Take the scenario of a newly married couple who have been fully arranged. The girl is nervous, does not even know the guy well and does not yield. The guy has waited too many years for this moment and is ready to go. After a few days, he finally is tired of waiting (while she is still adjusting and getting used to him) and forces himself on to her while she protests. Rape?

Re: When is rape not rape?

That still doesn't make it okay for you to take a stab at his background. But this clearly isn't my battle to fight and I am sure Jaanwar can get back to you if he wants to.

Ok so here is a scenario. Even though its a spouse's duty lets say he/she is not upto it and does not have a legitimate reason (for which they are at fault, i'll give you that). What next? Would it be okay to go ahead anyways without the consent of the other partner? I would hope the answer is no. So what I and others are saying is in a case like this if the partner goes ahead without the others consent that is marital rape.

Re: When is rape not rape?

You did not answer my question. :)

Anyhow, just like the idea of rape outside could be due to ulterior motive this idea is now infiltrated in to marriage couple relations as well. Can you deny that is not possible? I hope you say 'yes' it s possible.

Off course force is always wrong but it will not be needed (at the risk of repetition, I say) if the spouse (man or woman) considers it as a duty to satisfy other.

In marriage, there is no room to say no to spouse unless there is a legit reason. That is what I said. If you love someone, care for the one you married to, then better do something to satisfy his or her need. That's the position I have.

Let me add here: A real victim may be the one who is falsely accused.

Re: When is rape not rape?

I did not answer your question because I am not about to judge any ones background from their post. What he said was wrong I admit but what you said was worse and judgmental.

You did not answer my question either. Also, I already made it clear that I understand very well that it is the duty of a spouse to satisfy the other BUT I bet you there are such situations is healthy marriages where one is not up to it and the other partner understands. So I would like to hear what your response to the scenario I posted above or even princessjojo's is.

And I do not condone false accusations either so we are on the same page there. :)

Re: When is rape not rape?

On internet all we have is the posts or what is said in the posts. A post/comment like that will definitely put the background of the person in question. No doubt about it.

I said force is always wrong. Did that not answer your question? :confused:

Thanks for coming close to what I have been pointing out. :slight_smile:

Re: When is rape not rape?

Well someone loves the edit option :p

You still don't see why it was out of line for you to get so low and say what you did. You seem to think its okay to say that and I don't.

Well at least you realize force is not an option even in marriage. The question still remains and I have a feeling you will never clearly say that yes there can be a possibility of rape even in marriage.

Re: When is rape not rape?

Your post was at 11:26 PM and mine was at 11:33 PM (my post not saying it was edited) :p
I would be the first one to apologize if I had thought I was wrong. No I was not low in this case.

If force is used then that is rape. Read my first few posts. Without categorizing (married or not married) I said, If it looks like rape then it is rape.

Re: When is rape not rape?

So, marital rape (may be rare, but) is not a myth? :)

Re: When is rape not rape?

lol awesome so now we have established rape is a possibility in marriage
if you actually believe that than you shouldn't be saying its a silly concept in marriage because it is a very real problem for some people.

Re: When is rape not rape?

There is no such thing as “marital rape”. It is a myth. Either it is a rape or not a rape. See, the term is wrong since what you have is one word describing marriage binding which has respect or sense of commitment attached. Other is a crime. It is like saying “Holy Murder”, “Religious robbery”.

Yes, marital rape is a myth like Bugs bunny, Santa clause or Easter bunny.! :slight_smile:

Not so fast my friend. I wrote all along about false accusation, not rape.

If you did not read carefully what I wrote that’s not my fault. I clearly wrote here:

Re: When is rape not rape?

Explain this. From what I understood you are saying rape is a possibility between two people who married or not married. In other words rape is a possibility in marriage.

Re: When is rape not rape?

This is like saying: There is no such thing as 'marital abuse.' This is a myth. Marital is a word used to describe a marriage binding with a sense of respect. The other is a crime.

Diwana, I think it's clear that whenever people use the term 'marital rape', they are referring to an ACT or CONCEPT of forceful intercourse aka rape which happens between two people who are married to each other. Marital simply means 'of or related to marriage'. It is a neutral word. The word itself does not imply anything like 'respect, sense of commitment.' You are reducing it to semantics now when you yourself have said that if there is force and lack of consent, then it is rape, marriage or no marriage.

The term marital rape MAY be an oxymoron (if you, personally, would like to think that 'marital' automatically implies a harmonious, respectful binding) but calling it a myth is certainly not logical because it does happen.

So, do we agree on this: A husband can rape his wife.

?

?

Re: When is rape not rape?

princess im afraid we will never hear yes to that question...sigh i shall sleep now

Re: When is rape not rape?

Look diwana, I don't have a personal hardon against you. The thing is, you are so offensively jaahil that I avoid reading your posts, but if I ever accidentally do, it makes me want to slap you across your face. Which, being a civil person, I obviously won't (and unfortunately can't). So I will leave it at that. Oh and I didn't mind your 'background' insult, for you quite obviously don't know any better. Cheers.