When a non-muslim dies

[_SONA]

1. what ever is applied for current jews and christian, same will be applied to other non-muslims. (kafir is really a strong word). the need of Islam was pragmatic, after two monotheistic religions failed to do what they were supposed to do. so the current dilemma is that you cant differentiate between current face Christianity, Judaism (and also many so called Islamic sects) than hinduism.

2. i am not getting what are you trying to ask. but Hadith-e-Mubariks are the sayings of Prophet Muhammad PBUH. and there are six major hadith-e-mubarik collectors who are considered valid ones.

Sahih al-Bukhari Sahih Muslim Sunan an-Nasa'i al-Sughra Sunan Abi Dawood Sunan al-Tirmidhi Sunan Ibn Maja

1. Assalam-o-Alikum means Peace be upon you. its a dua. ofcourse who else will send the blessings, else than God. so its a common sense. *and PG statement is invalid, cuz if you say Asalam-o-Alikum to and i dont even know who you are or what is your religion...i mean i am not gonna get some direct revelation from ALLAH SWT that you are non-muslim. so i have to respond accordingly. *

ps. queer, are you really looking for guidance or just finding ways to mock us?

Stop spreading you craps about Islam from your brain. Sharabi and PG are 100% correct and they have brought references from hadeeth and Quran, while you being some thick headed person are denying. So either stop your self made nonsense or provide reference from Quran and hadeeth, else stop you crappy philosophy.

Note to Mods: **
**Kindly notice this troll who is spreading rumors about Islamic teachings.

[aurchaepiyo]

And do you know, just looking at someone whether they are Muslim or not? No, you do not. Assumptions, assumptions.

And when one says "Good-bye" in English, one is really saying "God be with you", but in fact, almost NOBODY means that. It is just a greeting, a salutation. And all the young girls in Pakistan who say, "Slaalekum, baji" -- they aren't exactly thinking the words Assalaam-u-alekum or the meaning "peace be upon you", are they? Nope. They're just greeting another human being in the manner of a civilized person in their teenager version of Urdu.

And they have more graciousness in them than somebody who looks for permission to not speak civilly to someone they presume is not of their own religion.

What a discussion! Don't you have something more important to do -- like painting your toenails or something, than to look for quranic rationales for being rude to others?

[Straight_up]

What a discussion! Don't you have something more important to do -- like painting your toenails or something, than to look for quranic rationales for being rude to others?

Funny!

[zobia]

Stop spreading you craps about Islam from your brain. Sharabi and PG are 100% correct and they have brought references from hadeeth and Quran, while you being some thick headed person are denying. So either stop your self made nonsense or provide reference from Quran and hadeeth, else stop you crappy philosophy.

Note to Mods: ** **Kindly notice this troll who is spreading rumors about Islamic teachings.

hm. tell me the difference between what sharabi mentioned, and what i mentioned?
i clearly failed to see any difference

however, P_G was in a completely different boat.

ps. before you call any thing crap, feel free to read it as well :) you wont lose your brain cell.

[Arleitter]

Re: When a non-muslim dies

It's all mindset.

[Jaanwar]

Stop spreading you craps about Islam from your brain. Sharabi and PG are 100% correct and they have brought references from hadeeth and Quran, while you being some thick headed person are denying. So either stop your self made nonsense or provide reference from Quran and hadeeth, else stop you crappy philosophy.

Note to Mods: ** **Kindly notice this troll who is spreading rumors about Islamic teachings.

Oh bhai jaan, relax. Why is it necessary to get nasty while fighting for the religion? Its a debate/discussion, if you don't agree with someone's point of view, dont call it crap. Give respect, get respect.

Don't make me issue a fatwa against you.

[Jaanwar]

Re: When a non-muslim dies

It is heartening to see how we are totally wound up about whether or not to say salaam to them infidels. Which hand to raise while saying salaam, which hand to scratch your right leg with, and what is the most appropriate way to blow your nose.

Get your basics straight, and then worry about these complications.

Aik se aik bara religious scholar hai idher.

[teggy]

Re: When a non-muslim dies

This following link maybe of help. A similar topic was discussed in Religion.

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-scripture/211222-dua-e-fatiha-non-muslims.html

But, please carry on with this discussion, it gives new light to the issue. :k:

[Sharaabi]

@zobia

i mean, if you say Assalam-o-Alikum to me than i can also send ALLAH SWT's blessings on u by saying Walikum Salam.

Anas ibn Maalik narrated that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When the People of the Book say salaam to you (greet you by saying al-salaamu alaykum), say ‘Wa ‘alaykum’ (and unto you).’” (Sahih Muslim 14/144)

Can you still not see where you going wrong? If not....go see the nearest optician.

sharaabi and zobia,

firstly, those hadeeths are about saying hello to jews and christians, but what about the rest of the kafirs? most kafirs on this planet are neither.

No they are not about saying "hello". The hadith explicitly mention saying salaam.

It doesn't matter if the kafir is not a jew or a chirstian. The fact that the rest of the kuffar are worse in their disbelief than jews or christians, the prohibition to send salaam to them only becomes stronger. The logic is easy to spot.

secondly, what is the context of the hadeeths? were these for all times or for a certain time of conflict between jews and christians of arabia and the new muslims?

The hadith is simple, to the point, for all times and supposed to be taken literally!

thirdly, at any rate, i don't see these supporting PG's claim that it is forbidden to say salam to kafirs because it is a dua. can we get proof for that?

The aforementioned hadith are sufficient proof

[Sharaabi]

It is heartening to see how we are totally wound up about whether or not to say salaam to them infidels. Which hand to raise while saying salaam, which hand to scratch your right leg with, and what is the most appropriate way to blow your nose.

Get your basics straight, and then worry about these complications.

Aik se aik bara religious scholar hai idher.

In case you dont know, this issue is from the concept of Al Wala wal Baraa (Loving and Hating for the Sake of Allah), which happens to be from the prerequisites of La ilaha illalah.

I dont know of a more serious issue than this to get wounded up about!

[Jaanwar]

Re: When a non-muslim dies

^ you know, you are going to hell for your nick - says the sexy mullah.

[zobia]

Can you still not see where you going wrong? If not....go see the nearest optician.

“When the People of the Book say salaam to you (greet you by saying al-salaamu alaykum), say ‘Wa ‘alaykum’ (and unto you)

sorry, i still cant.

cuz it shows that if someone says salaam then reply to him/her with the same (as unto you)

ps. can someone else please tell me the what is a juxtaposition in both the arguments.
ps2. no, not for the sake of argument.

[queer]

No they are not about saying "hello". The hadith explicitly mention saying salaam.

It doesn't matter if the kafir is not a jew or a chirstian. The fact that the rest of the kuffar are worse in their disbelief than jews or christians, the prohibition to send salaam to them only becomes stronger. The logic is easy to spot.

The hadith is simple, to the point, for all times and supposed to be taken literally!

Here are some contradictions about your approach to interpretation, sharaabi.

saying salam was likely the customary way to greet anyone in arabia even before islam. so this is the equivalent of a hello in today's context.

salaam is explicitly mentioned, and so are jews and christians. not the idolaters. but you'd like to use logic to extend the prohibition to other disbelievers as well, but not extend the greeting to other equivalent forms.

and you end with a claim of necessity for the hadeeth to be taken literally. what happened to previous ideas of logic and context?

either leave the liberty of logic to all parts of scripture (like zobia's interpretation), or take everything literally. don't pick and choose to match your current prejudices.

[P_G]

Re: When a non-muslim dies

Question: How is one suppose to greet non-Muslims, and if they greet you, how must you answer them?

Answer: In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

The word ‘Salam’ is one of the names of Allah Almighty and it is included in the Islamic greeting ‘Assalamu Alaykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh’ (May the peace of Allah descend upon you and His Mercy and Blessings).

In pre-Islamic Arabia, when people met, they used to greet each other with various greetings. Islam changed and replaced these greetings with this standard form of greeting.

The greeting ‘Assalamu Alaykum’ is commonly translated as ‘peace be upon you’ and it means: May you remain safe from every pain, sorrow and distress.

Qadhi Abu Bakr ibn al-Arabi (Allah have mercy on him) states:

“The word Salam is one the good names of Allah Almighty and ‘Assalamu Alaykum’ means: Allah Almighty is your guardian and caretaker. (Ahkam al-Qur’an).

Due to this aspect of Salam, it is generally impermissible to use this form of greeting for non-Muslims.

Imam al-Haskafi (Allah have mercy on him) states:

“A believer may greet a non-Muslim (with the greeting of salam) if he has a need from him otherwise it is prohibitively disliked (makruh)……Therefore, one should abstain from saying Salam to the disbelievers,

for the Hadith says: “Do not commence by greeting the Christians and Jews with Salam. If you meet one of them on a pathway, force them to walk on the side”

recorded by al-Bukhari……. If a Jew, Christian or fire-worshipper greets you, then there is nothing wrong in replying to them, but one should not say more than ‘Wa alaykum’.

Allama Ibn Abidin (Allah have mercy on him) states by commentating on the above:

“It is stated in al-Shir’a (name of a book) that when one greets non-Muslims, one should say: Assalamu ala man ittaba’a al-huda (may peace be upon the guided ones). The reason for this impermissibility of saying Salam to non-Muslims is to not show them respect. When one greets them for a need, it is not out of respect, thus permissible. (See: Radd al-Muhtar ala al-Durr al-Mukhtar, 6/412).

Imam al-Bukhari records a Hadith in his Sahih on the authority of Anas ibn Malik (Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: If the people of the book (ahl al-Kitab) greet you, say in reply: Wa alaykum (and also on you)”. (Sahih al-Bukhari).

Also in Sahih al-Bukhari, in the ‘Chapter: How to greet a gathering in which there are Muslims and non-Muslims’ a long Hadith has been recorded on the authority of Usama ibn Zaid (Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) passed by a gathering in which there were Muslims, Idolaters and Jews, and the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) greeted them and invited them to Allah….. (Sahih al-Bukhari).

The author of Tafsir al-Mazhari states:

“If a group consists of Muslims, Idolaters and Jews, one should greet them (with Salam), as mentioned in the Hadith recorded by al-Bukhari and Muslim from Usama ibn Zaid. However, the intention should be to say Salam to the Muslims (of that group) so that it does not entail commencing to greet non-Muslims” (See: Ahkam al-Quran by al-Tahanawi, 2/306).

One of the great Hanafi scholars of the Indian subcontinent, Imam Ashraf Ali al-Tahanawi (Allah have mercy on him) states in his famous ‘heavenly ornaments’:

“If one’s teacher is a non-Muslim, then one should greet him by saying only Assalam (peace) or Assalamu ala man ittaba’a al-huda. One should abstain from using the words Assalamu Alaykum for non-Muslims”. (P. 476).

From the foregoing, we can conclude our discussion in the following points:

1) It is impermissible to greet non-Muslims with the Islamic greeting of Assalamu Alaykum

2) One may greet non-Muslims with the greeting they themselves use

3) At times of need, such as the hope of one accepting Islam, it would be permissible to greet non-Muslims with the Islamic greeting

4) If a non-Muslim greets a Muslim with the Islamic greeting, one should respond by saying Alaykum or Assalamu ala man ittaba’a al-huda. While doing so, one should pray that Allah Almighty guide him/her to embrace Islam.

5) If a group consists of Muslims and non-Muslims, then it is permissible to greet them with the Islamic greeting. However, the intention should be to greet the Muslims only.

And Allah knows best

Muhammad ibn Adam
Darul Iftaa
Leicester, UK

[bebo]

“When the People of the Book say salaam to you (greet you by saying al-salaamu alaykum), say ‘Wa ‘alaykum’ (and unto you)

sorry, i still cant.

cuz it shows that if someone says salaam then reply to him/her with the same (as unto you)

ps. can someone else please tell me the what is a juxtaposition in both the arguments. ps2. no, not for the sake of argument.

Sharabi is saying that muslims can only say wa alaykum(and unto you) to non muslims but not the full thing as in wa alaykum Salam(and blessing unto you).

[Sharaabi]

saying salam was likely the customary way to greet anyone in arabia even before islam. so this is the equivalent of a hello in today's context.

Is that merely an assumption? Queer, you're arguing about something you dont have enough knowledge.

"salaam alaykum" was NOT the customary way to greet in pre-Islamic Arabia. People use to wish each other with words like "an'im sabahan" *and other words derived from "*An-Ni'mah" which means good living.

Ibn Qayyim states in his Bada'i' Al Fawaid (144)

[QUOTE]
“Allah, the Sovereign, the Most Holy, the Peace, prescribed that the greeting among the people of Islam should be ‘al-salaamu ‘alaikum’, which is better than all the greetings of other nations which include impossible ideas or lies, such as saying, ‘May you live for a thousand years,’ or things that are not accurate, such as ‘An’im Sabahan (Good morning),’ or actions that are not right, such as prostrating in greeting.....
[/QUOTE]

salaam is explicitly mentioned, and so are jews and christians. not the idolaters. but you'd like to use logic to extend the prohibition to other disbelievers as well...

Yes because this was what the Prophet (sas) and his companions (rah)practiced. The actions of the companions, which are documented and preserved in the books of hadith and seerah, serve as evidences for the correct interpretation of the ahadith.

It'd help if you approach this Deen with a pure intention and with a desire to learn knowledge and seek the right path. Any other intention would only result in a lost cause....because this Deen is DIVINE and what that means is that you cannot play around it nor prove it deficient in any way or form!

[zobia]

Sharabi is saying that muslims can only say wa alaykum(and unto you) to non muslims but not the full thing as in wa alaykum Salam(and blessing unto you).

ok... thank you.

[Straight_up]

Re: When a non-muslim dies

Zobia, how many posts did it take for you to understand that?

[hareem01]

Re: When a non-muslim dies

“When you are greeted with a greeting, greet in return with what is better than it, or (at least) return it equally.” (An-Nisa’: 86)
** The Holy Quran**

The ahadith that Sharaabi quoted are correct but they have a context to them.

Ibn Umar, may Allah be pleased with them both, quotes Allah’s Messenger, peace and blessings be upon him, as saying: **“When the Jews greet you, they say ‘As-SamuAlaykum (may death be upon you),’ so respond by saying ‘`Wa Alaykum (and also upon you).’” **(Narrated by Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

[Slickstar]

Re: When a non-muslim dies

"peace be upon you"

lol. didnt know that was a trademark for just muslims. anyone can use it.