Re: What’s Torture? Ask Bush, he decides
red states moi reckons 
Re: What's Torture? Ask Bush, he decides
lemme just point out that 40% supporting torture does not mean 60% oppose it. There is usually a "not decided" segment in a survey.
Re: What's Torture? Ask Bush, he decides
so you state that the 39% and 44% are the vocal visible ones. even if i agree with that my point about the slient majority being against it holds true, its a majority, and its silent..
so I guess in your post where you posted these numbers you really did not have anything to counter my point :) Good to see we agree, even if we get there in a circular manner.
Your initial post was gung-ho on the (laughable) majority. You changed your tune after my post.
It's good to see you come around and agree with me. Shabaash, good job.
Re: What's Torture? Ask Bush, he decides
Your own post negated your own statements :) must be rough
Re: What’s Torture? Ask Bush, he decides
yup, but undecided can not be counted in as for or against, so whe you say that a majority does not support it, the statement is right, majority is against it, or has no opinion, but it does nt support it.
Re: What's Torture? Ask Bush, he decides
Nah, you saw the light and toned down your 'gung ho' post...happens to all bush supporters. :)
Re: What's Torture? Ask Bush, he decides
I am the farthest thing from a bush supporter.
you may have missed it but read the following comments..
whether or not the people have a direct impact on policy making specially in this day and age where policies are being made from executive orders rather than thru the congress, thats a whole different discussion
and
We can not let these uber right wingers dictate the agenda
I mean after reading this someone really thinks I am pro Bush, then I dont know what to say :)
PS: majority is still majority :)
Re: What's Torture? Ask Bush, he decides
phir murghi ki aik ta'ang...
Silent majority that's ineffective at best is really no majority to counter the views of the effective vocal minority.
Again, you can feel free to agree with me. :D
Re: What's Torture? Ask Bush, he decides
I will argue with you :)
what do you want the people to do to prove to you that they are against it, march in streets, write protest songs? start a storm of letters to magazines?
They will speak up, they will speak with their votes soon.
Re: What's Torture? Ask Bush, he decides
They will speak up, they will speak with their votes soon.
I am counting on that too hoping that they DO speak up with their votes.
Let's revisit this thread after the midterms.
Re: What's Torture? Ask Bush, he decides
since much of this is coming via executive orders, they will speak in 2 years..
although they can speak up now to vote out spineless congressfolks (dinn wanna use the term men here because they sure aint acting manly opposing these executive pressures)
But really I am at a loss to explain the whole silent majority business, even if it is marginally more, it is still a majority that does not support it. I ask again, what do you want a silent majority to do in order to show you that it is against what is going on?
And dont come back to me with the lame used up sayings like "silence is deafening" and stuff. I have heard that many times whenever we talk about actions of a minority and why the majority view is not visible.
Re: What's Torture? Ask Bush, he decides
oh yeah and on the issue of my support for W, yes I was involved in fundraising for him in 2000 and hosted fundraising events but I really had thought he would be a better president than he proved to be.
Re: What's Torture? Ask Bush, he decides
They should've stood up and pressured their congressmen to not bow down so quickly to the 'executive pressures'. They can still do it but they won't cuz they are indifferent. They can vote with their phone calls, emails, and yet they choose to accept that status quo. They are as 'effective' as those who want muslims to carry special ID cards.
Don't hold high hopes for November though.
Re: What's Torture? Ask Bush, he decides
Tsk tsk. Must've sucked supporting a candidate who became the butt of political jokes across the globe. Khair, you are getting better. :D
Gore was a better candidate, then and now.
Re: What's Torture? Ask Bush, he decides
It seemed to be the right decision at the time, but things changed along the way.
It was for the first time in histry of US that muslims decided to show their numbers by votes as they were sick of the adventures of clinton administration like blowing up pharma factories without a shred of evidence that there was anything funky going on there, or the blockade of iraq which was affecting the innocent ppl there, when maddy albright says that the price of all the kids dying was worth it, when rockets were lobbed left and right. I was doing my part to make sure that we get heard politically..too bad our positioned has weakened so much after 9/11 that a candidate would rather NOT have endorsement from muslims for his/her political campaign.
yeah it seemed at that point that W would bring something different, because Gore was going to maintain status quo of his boss' policies.
thats a whole diff discussion for some other thread some other time.
gore vidal said he left politics when he realized that the two party system was really a one party system..
Re: What's Torture? Ask Bush, he decides
And the son (Bush) wouldn't have supported his father's (Bush's) policies?
Heck, for junior Bush, it was (and is) personal. He'd have continued the squeeze on sodom like his predecessor.
Clinton gave Palestinians the best chance for peace with Israelis by ignoring likudnik hawks like BB Nethanyahu. Eyerack was difficult but internvention in Bosnia (albeit late) and Pali-Israel peace process should
not be ignored.
Correctomondo, situation for muslims would've been the more or less the same. WRT to oil interest/politics Gore, would've been less susceptible to the big oil/money interests and more environmentally friendly, and probably better for the country than Bush.
Re: What's Torture? Ask Bush, he decides
LI- yep but the muslim community at large and prganizations decided to throw thir weight behind W, and I simply helped there :) hindsight is always 20-20, although I am still not too sure how good the gore-bore ticket would have been.
Re: What's Torture? Ask Bush, he decides
Ok. I am not blaming you for anything. :D
Re: What's Torture? Ask Bush, he decides
thank you ji