well, this is getting interesting…so you’re saying that doing something…anything…that the prophet did is good.
Well let’s see how this argument holds when we go into the extremes.
anything the prophet did is good…so ideally you would want to do only those things he did…this means that doing things he did not do, are either neutral or bad…but since we don’t know which one of these they are, there is a chance of being either. Therefore anything we do, that the Prophet didn’t do, has the chance of being bad…then i wonder why you - as someone striving for exact copying of the Pophet - uses internet, wears pants, drives a car…there are 10000 things you do, and the Prophet certainly did NOT do…then why are you doing those things and running the risk of doing gunnah…I’d suggest you emigrate out of the US and live in a clay house somewhere in West KSA :k:
(in ur counter argument, it would be very strange if you would use logic or common sense to refute mine…because in order to advocate your argument you implicitly say not to use logic but just follow ‘the rule’ cuz the prophet did it)
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*Originally posted by NeSCio: *
anything the prophet did is good...so ideally you would want to do only those things he did.........this means that doing things he did not do, are either neutral or bad.....but since we don't know which one of these they are, there is a chance of being either. Therefore anything we do, that the Prophet didn't do, has the chance of being bad.....then i wonder why you - as someone striving for exact copying of the Pophet - uses internet, wears pants, drives a car.......there are 10000 things you do, and the Prophet certainly did NOT do....then why are you doing those things and running the risk of doing gunnah.............I'd suggest you emigrate out of the US and live in a clay house somewhere in West KSA
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There is a big disconnect in your argument. I never said you or anyone MUST live their lives 100% as the Prophet did. If you wanna do that, great. If you don't do it, fine. I said if you do ANYTHING with the intention of following the messanger of God, you will get reward. Now, you can twist this around 200 times and go round and round in circles because you just want to argue, thats up to you.
actually, the answer was reminder to the original post, which you clearly neglected, in which there was a reference that shaitaan uses left hand for his works which is infact mentioned in HADITH but if u dun beleive, what can we do?
put it under fan or give it sometime, what’s so hurry..? I have even read ahaadeeth regarding this matter in which Rasoolulah:saw: did not like such hot food. How in the world a muslim will LOVE or LIKE something which the Prophet:saw: disliked???
the command is to read the duaa for certain conditions, you can not interpret wrongly… THE WORDS a muslim is refered to in QURAN ARE: “Sam’ena wa Ata’anaa” and “AAmanna wa Saddaqna.”
Coudln’t have said better :k: . This aint the first time brother Nescio is going in rounds. The last time I read he had a major concern about praying on mars or something with the timing soemthing really lame. Anyways its his business. Good luck brother !
-Salman
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*Originally posted by Faisal: *
There is a big disconnect in your argument. I never said you or anyone MUST live their lives 100% as the Prophet did. If you wanna do that, great. If you don't do it, fine. I said if you do ANYTHING with the intention of following the messanger of God, you will get reward. Now, you can twist this around 200 times and go round and round in circles because you just want to argue, thats up to you.
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i neither said that you MUST live ur life as the Prophet did. what i did say is that you try to live your life NOT according to the things that the prophet would NOT do.......and since of all the things the Prophet did NOT do, we cannot be sure if they are neutral or bad....one can only conclude -based on what you said- that one should try to do as many things as possible like the Prophet did....and from this my argument from my previous post can be started
>>>>If you wanna do that, great. If you don't do it, fine.<<<
you only give 2 options here....where is the option of doing a bad thing.....this statement implies there are only good or neutral things
why is it implied here that Shaitaan has the same physique as a human being? Maybe he has three arms/hands? maybe he’s like an octopus? Certainly, he isn’t like humans, since he can be at multiple places at once…so why say he only has 2 hands? and if indeed the Hadith (or let’s say the original words of the Prophet) adressed two hands, then they are more likely to be metaphorical hands…not to be mixed up with human hands
little kids don’t have much patience…and i think they are too young to understand that they ought to wait for any reason at all.
this brings me back to the argument against Faisal: of all the things the Prophet did NOT do, we don’t know if he was neutral towards them or disliked them…so why run the risk of doing something that is disliked…
which conditions are they??? maybe I’m not insightfull as many of us are here…so can you state EXACTLY which conditions are implied here?? which infectious diseases?
I’ll give u a list, and tell me with which infectious diseases i have to say this dua, and with which i don’t. In fact I ask anyone (Faisal, MQ, Salman NY AQ) to give me exactly which conditions are meant here…
here’s the list:
AIDS
Hepatitis B
common cold
STDs
Acne
Nescio... with all due respect, you are just going round in circles, and wasting your time. I have a suspicion that you understand whats being said, but are just trying to prolong the argument.
Which is as useless as the other arguments you bring here like what are the calendars on Moon and Mars and which direction to face when on Moon etc. You seemed like a reasonably intelligent person, but the sort of discussions you engage in this forum is disappointing in best case and disinformative in the worst.
It is a reality that in 50 yrs from now there could be ppl on Mars staying there for a longer time-period. It should be anticipated which problems they can confer there in all aspects of life.
Perhaps that’s a big problem in contemporary Muslim countries: they don’t know how to anticipate???
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*Originally posted by Faisal: *
Nescio... with all due respect, you are just going round in circles, and wasting your time. I have a suspicion that you understand whats being said, but are just trying to prolong the argument.
Which is as useless as the other arguments you bring here like what are the calendars on Moon and Mars and which direction to face when on Moon etc. You seemed like a reasonably intelligent person, but the sort of discussions you engage in this forum is disappointing in best case and disinformative in the worst.
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A good discussion or argument is one, which holds.... not in the common scenario, but in the extremes of what is possible. Secondly, a good discussion is that in which respect or at least the acceptance of the other opinion is present. Thusfar I have lacked both in this forum, especially with the orthodox religous persons. And that is the reason behind me posting these questions: I want to see how far the classic religious argumentation holds, and secondly, how far these classicists can accept other opinions before decompensating
exactly, Faith is the basic dogma around which my logic is constructed. Question is where does Faith end and logic begin…for me Faith ends with the dogma that Allah is one, and he sent the Qur’an via Prophet Mohammed like many other books and prophets. From here on end everything should at least be made pausible before accepting. The reason for that is that reasoning/judging/deriving from the basic dogma, one can find assurity that only this dogma is the only absolute truth.
if I won't question, how else do you want to me to verify whether it is an original hadith or a fabricated one? If it is original then it ought to be universal and explainable to even the layman.
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nescico bhai…better and the prudent approach of questioning is to look at the chain of narrators….suppose the hadith is authentic then would u accpet it ? bar ur questions…..
just check on the narrators …even better …. Prove it that the hadith is not authentic if it not fits in ur mind……..
I can understand that your intention is good…..but you should also keep in mind that most of us will belive in an ahadith if it is authentic reagrdless of whether we can totally understand it or not….
About ur originality logic……kindly prove me logically that in surah feel ..the birds killed the elephent * I belive in it……just making a point u all will inshallah understand- be patient*
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well, if that's the case,....then the Hadith isn't complete...cuz it said not to eat with ur left hand: some very simple mind (there are many in this world) would get confused
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bhai……sirf aik hadees per umel karnay wala sada he ho ga…….it is mentioned in several other ahdith ……if it were mentioned here …to phir aap kehtay kay repition bohat hay …koi hal nahin
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child's behavior in unpredictable......it can cry for milk any time.......now don't say u expect ppl to have warm milk ready 24-7
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AQ has sufficiently answered it….
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again, if in case of AIDS the dua is not needed.....then the Hadith is not waterproof....because it didn't mention the AIDS case...........
apart from AIDS....many infectious diseases can NOT be gotten from contact via food....and the ones u can, can also be brought over via other modes (like when saying salaam when opening the door for the guests, you can get the common cold)
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yaar aap kia chahtay hain..polio kay katroon(polio drops) kay baray main bhi hadith ho…..
*1-You breath fan doesn't.
2-You have enzymes fan doesn't.
3-You can spit fan can not. *
Need more differences Nescio ? I thought you were smarter than this.
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a even little self-respecting person will not blow out saliva when blowing to cool down something. And in the air you breath out there is no enzyme present.
nescico bhai…better and the prudent approach of questioning is to look at the chain of narrators….suppose the hadith is authentic then would u accpet it ? bar ur questions…..
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that's another thing very 'suspicious'. Because this method of verifying certain historical data is not very common apart from the Hadith literature. Of course everywhere ppl will rely on oral transmission of data, but almost always they also seek other souces (like documents, encrypts, archeological finds) to verify the information even better. These latter scientific approaches lack in the religious literature.
NeSCio: I would love to see you sharing ahaadeeth in which you beleive are authentic. Please, share with us for our sake. Thanks! May ALLAH give you reward
i don't make the strict seperation between authentic and unauthentic, because these terms have the semantical meaning of having to follow one blindly and the rejecting the other.
As I've put forward numerous times in this forum, I regard them as historical writing....just as any other history book is history writing (like Herodotus wrote about the wars in Greece, or the gospels in christianity etc)
such history writing is good and can be informative to read and get a feeling of how things were or could have been back then....one shouldn't give them more credit and they are due
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*Originally posted by NeSCio: *
i don't make the strict seperation between authentic and unauthentic, because these terms have the semantical meaning of having to follow one blindly and the rejecting the other.
As I've put forward numerous times in this forum, I regard them as historical writing....just as any other history book is history writing (like Herodotus wrote about the wars in Greece, or the gospels in christianity etc)
such history writing is good and can be informative to read and get a feeling of how things were or could have been back then....one shouldn't give them more credit and they are due
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nice philosophy :-) so u don't beleive in ahaadeeth to be followed?
FAITH is.
think abt it 
answer me I think my questions make more sense. :-/