Hey i know there are two major sects in islam, but i dont know the differences in shias, and wahabis the main religion of the saudi arabians.
Please explain to me what these are and how they are different!
And which one will be right at the day of judgement day.??
Yea What do you Say About That!!?!! JUST bring it!
Wahabis is NOT a sect in islam, its part of sunism.
Only thing that is right for judgement day is who ever follows quran and hadith and examples of prophet mohammad PBH and his companions, anything else drived from any other place or person is wrong and wrong and wrong, and CAN NEVER be part of islam, off course sheitan might lead you to think that it is part of islam, that it is a RIGHT deed to do. But in reality its NOT. Anything not mentioned in quran or hadith is not part of islam and cant be.
No group actually calls itself Wahabis. However,people may call some of those who express certain views as Wahabis, which is a name supposed to refer to the followers of Imam Muhammad ibn Abdulwahhab who was a great reformer and scholar.
He lived in Najd over 200 years ago and worked hard to eradicate all innovations from Islamic worship. Such innovations had crept into the practices of Muslim communities due to ignorance and long periods of decline undergone by Muslim communities. He maintained that the example of the Prophet i.e. the Sunnah should be followed diligently. There is no disagreement among scholars that this is required of every Muslim. It is unfortunate that some of the practices which Imam Muhammad ibn Abdulwahhab spoke very strongly against still persist in some Muslim communities.
These include such terrible practices as visiting the graves of supposedly saintly people and asking the dead to intervene with Allah on behalf of the visitor for any purpose. Such a practice Islam shuns, since
it is a manifestation of associating partners with Allah. Imam Muhammad ibn Abdul wahhab belonged to the Sunni Muslims who, by virtue of their name, should follow the Sunnah, or the example, set by Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) with diligence. Hence, it is wrong to classify Muslims as Wahabis and Sunnis, since the followers of Imam Abdulwahhab belong to the Sunni group of Muslims.
The vigorous arguments and fighting you have
spoken of are certainly deplorable. This happens, nevertheless, because people are sometimes too rigid in their views. Those who insist on following the Sunnah of the Prophet diligently should have the patience to teach their fellow Muslims, with respect and compassion, that some of their practices are unacceptable from the Muslim point of view. Had they done so, they would find better response by other Muslims.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Pappu> 
Time makes me late, so you should wait! 
papuu
The founder of Wahabism: Mohammed Ibn Abdul Wahhab Najdi declared the Ahle Sunna Wa Jama’a as ‘Kafirs’. The Ahle Sunna wa Jamaat is the main body comprising of the 4 sunni sects.
He passed a ruling that it was LAWFUL to kill men, women and children belonging to the Ahle Sunna Wa Jama’a. In fact, it is recorded in the books of history, that, the Wahhabis killed over 100,000 thousand Muslim men and enslaved the women and children.
The Wahhabis came into power by torturing and killing Muslims. They finally took Mecca with the help of the British in 1924 and bombarded the Shrine of the Holy Prophet(Sallalahu alayhi wa sallam) in Medina. But it was in 1931 that they finally took Medina. And in 1932 the Wahhabis founded the state of Saudi Arabia.
These, then are the beliefs and atrocities that the Wahhabis committed not too far in history but they have managed to cover their tracks successfully with ‘Petro-Dollars’, by buying the weak Iman of some corrupt scholars who also became Wahhabis.
To learn the truth, click on: http://www.ahle-sunnat.org.uk/WAHABI.html
http://www.ahle-sunnat.org.uk/spy_1-7.html
http://www.ahle-sunnat.org.uk/TABHADTH.html
This is absolutely preposterous!
For someone to ask which sect will be right on judgement day is nothing but sheer foolishness.
Of course every sect in every faith believe that they will be right!
Have I missed something here or does this sound like another silly attempt to start a fight?
[This message has been edited by Muzna (edited August 01, 2000).]
Muzna,
Only one sect of Islam will go to Heaven is based on hadith/sunnah as noted by bukhari, muslim and others and, not on Quran. And, it is tearing the ummah apart.
I mentioned in another thread: A muslim who believes in Allah, The Final Revelation,The Final Prophet(s) and observes the requirements of "his/her" firqa or school of thought is a true muslim.
We should give up this contention that "Only One" sect is true muslim and be willing to kill the others over it because a theologian called bukhari noted a saying of our prophet(s)to that effect.
faceup,
as usual, you are wahabbi-bashing again. The fact is, shia and qadiani also call muslims who don't adhere to their firqas, kafirs (at least some sub-sects do) so what is the point in pointing out only wahabbis?
Wahab was just another jurist and he had no authority to rule against those jusrists before him. His logic was that all scholars after a certain period following the prophet's death (SAW) were innovators. In that case, of course, he would have to include himself!
Don't worry yourself over this firqa business. The similarities are more than the differences. Both Shias and Sunnis have more pressing problems than to argue over incidents which happened centuries ago.
Xtreme,
1)What is your opinion of the hadith that faceup refers to or "..only one sect is true.."?
2)Is this the cause of the rift in the ummah?
3)Have the wahabis contributed to this sunni & shia rift?
4)Has that hadith, in ways, caused shedding of fellow muslim's blood?
5)What have you, as a muslim, done to heal the rift?
What does 'whabbi' mean?
As Pappu stated earlier, the word 'wahabbi' is applied to anyone who accepted Imam Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahaab as a great scholar.
The people who insist upon calling us 'wahaabi' as a nickname, actually testify that we are upon the correct way. For the Scholar which they refer to was actually called Muhammad and it was his father's name Abdul-Wahaab. But Allah has willed that 'wahaabi' be an ascription to Al-Wahaab (The Giver), which is a name from the perfect names of Allah.
Xtreme stated:>>faceup, as usual, you are wahabbi-bashing again<<
faceup singles out wahaabis, maybe because they were at the fore-front of exposing his cult of Khalifites (their laws must be approved by Amnesty International & UN human rights codes)
I dont wana waste my time telling you guys what wahabis is any more. I already have and only thing i will say is that. WHO EVER FOLLOWS THE QURAN AND HADITH AND EXAMPLES OF PROPHET IS A TRUE MUSLIM AND FOLLOWER OF RELIGION OF ISLAM. Any other made up stuff called to be islam is wrong and is not and will NOT be called islam no matter what you do. Islam was completed 1400 and allah has stated that in quran. We have to follow the islam that Mohammad and his campanions did if we wana be declared right on the day of judgement.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
I rest my case.
***You call wahabis what ever you like wrong or right, look at your self and determine HOW much do you follow quran and hadith or do you go on mumbling about following some dead person you dont even have the facts about. Bye!
Pappu> Time makes me late, so you should wait!
Would you folks please stop using capital letters.
If you want to stress a point or put emphasis on some words/letters then please use the Bold facility.
Using capital letters denotes yelling, is impolite and clutters up your message.
Muzna this is not wrong to ask if you are a kid and u dont know what these things are then you would ask.
I think u must be old and know what to ask and not to ask....
Everyone says that they are right and there people are right so i am asking if there is islam why do people have difference beliefs then and what is the right way, and wrong ways, some of these sects are saying wrong things okk!!
So please explain to me then why we have these sects if we are muslim and all have to follow quran.
Yea What do you Say About That!!?!! JUST bring it!
Hmm....so how old are you then? Perhaps by sharing this information with us you will help us to help you.
Also, give us some background on yourself....which sect do you belong to?
Plus, what have you studied? What do you know about your own sect?
faceup,
I understand what you are saying...but what I can't understand is someone asking the question to begin with.
Afterall....each sect will preach that they are the be all and the end all. So the answer to the question of who is right will vary depending on whom you ask.
ummm this is funny, how people question who is right.
Again, who ever follows quran and hadith is RIGHT and is true muslim. You dont need a islamic scholar to tell you that. If a deeds of a sects are according to quran and hadith than that sect is right and true followers of islam, no matter what society has to call them.
Pappu> ;)Time makes me late, so you should wait! :D ;)
pappu or any reader,
1) Can you explain the difference between
your statement of:
"who ever follows quran and hadith is RIGHT and is true muslim"
vs.
my statement:
"A muslim who believes in Allah, The Final Revelation,The Final Prophet(s) and observes the requirements of "his/her" firqa or school of thought is a true muslim."
2) Your statement:
"We have to follow the islam that Mohammad and his campanions did if we wana be declared right on the day of judgement. I rest my case."
So, you're saying that Islam & muslims should always be like the 7th century, no matter what! Is this something you heard from your mullah or is this in the quran? If, in quran, pls quote verses.
3) Do you, for example, pray salat 5 times like the prophet (s) and, dress like the prophet(s)?
I see these various sects in Islam as Allahs way of preserving every aspect of the sunnah of the holy prophet.
e.g in salah sunnis fold their hands, while shias and khawarj stand attention...holy prophet has done both...so in a way every aspect of his sunnah is being preserved in this way...
off course there are some sects which are either outside Islam or on verge of Shirk...but these can be easily spotted as the ones who either dont believe in on or more of the five basic beliefs or dont one or more of the five basic practices ...or modify these to the extent that they loose their original meaning ....
I believe that neither shias nor wahabbis fall into the above category....Shia, and Sunni and sects therein are all part of a beautiful bouquet called "Islam"....so please dont try to create discord by posting such things.....
Ik fursat e gunah mili woh bhi char din
Yeah i am Sunni and i know pretty much a lot of stuff about my religon and the rules. But i just didnt knwo what was the difference between shia and sunni thas all
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Yea What do you Say About That!!?!! JUST bring it!
Pukka Desi
I fail to comprehend your reaction censoring Pak2000 for his question. His question is directly related to one of the sunnah of the prophet(saw) i.e. "And which one(of the many Islamic sects) will be right at the day of judgement day.??"
This particular sunnah is at the heart of the Sunni dawa'ah since they have claimed that they are the only "true" Islam and have spilled blood to enforce this claim. So, answer his query accordingly - he has a right to know.
Another equally important sunnah for Pukka & sunni-ism is to pray or offer salat like the prophet(s)! But, he himself knows that there are 300 differences in just the salat alone amongst the 4 muslim sects(maliki, hanafi, shaefi, hanbali). So, which is the right sunnah? And, why so much confusion? Doesn't this make for a bida'h or innovation here?
Orthodox Islam emphasis is to live in this century and all eternity, exactly like the Prophet did in the 7th century harsh & wild Arabia. All their sharia'h laws and meanings of the Quran comes from this sunnah, crudely compiled 250 years after the prophet's passing away. Considering the fact that the Prophet(s) never authorized his sunnah to be written down, least of all, to be made into the meanings of the quran and followed for all eternity. By having made or associating the Sunnah into an Equal of Allah's Quran - they commit shirk.
On another issue, Pukka, May I ask you to clarify your following comments:
"off course there are some sects which are either outside Islam or on verge of Shirk"
Please elaborate this for me on basis of the Holy Quran!
Pukka Desi,
I see these various sects in Islam as Allahs way of preserving every aspect of the sunnah of the holy prophet<<
Allah says: "Be not of the Mushrikeen, of those who split up their religion and became sects, each rejoicing in that which is with it." [Ar-Room:31-32]
The blame is upon those who left the way of the Messenger(saw) and innovated in the religion (e.g. Shia, Qadiani, Khalifites, grave worshippers, etc) and not those who cling onto the way of the Prophet(saw) and do not compromise with the people.
And secondly to ask which of the sects is on the correct way is a perfectly valid question. In the narration in At-Tirmidhi, the Prophet(saw) mentioned the splitting of the muslims into seventy three sects and all of them in the fire except one. Then the companions asked, which one is that sect and the Messenger(saw) said, that which he and his companions are upon.
Had it been incorrect to ask this question, then the Prophet(saw) would have rebuked the companions, but no rather he(saw) answered the question. Whether every sect claims it is upon the truth is not relevant. For what matters is that the correct way has been explained clearly. If the Messenger(saw) told us about our life to such detail, that he(saw) even told us how to go to the bathroom, then would he have left us in confusion with regards to such a great matter, i.e. path between Paradise and Hell.
The Prophet(saw) said:"I have left you upon clear proof, it's night is like it's day, no one deviates from it except one who is destroyed" (Ahmad, ibn Maajah)
If you are confused then you only have yourself to blame. You will not remove this confusion by continuously saying "but everyone claims they are correct". Rather you must tread the path of knowledge with a sincere heart, desiring the hereafter and not the dunyaa(i.e. status, power, wealth, etc.)
May Allah guide us all to His straight path.
[This message has been edited by salafi (edited August 03, 2000).]
there are five major schools of thought (muqaliddin) who follow the sharia as explained by some imam...in addition there are non-muqalid who do not adhere to any any imam....All of these differ in manner of interpretation and not in the essence...
e.g all agree on Tauheed as explained by the holy prophet(no trinity, no polythestic ideas)...
so they are all OK....but anyone who tries to create disunity by attacking the principles/practices is on the wrong path..for example some people give the idea of intermediatries to Allah....there are none...so these ppl are adding element of shirk... we have to be careful not to leave the basic principles and practices ...
e.g we may have 300 differences in salah...but everyone offers it 5 times a day...anyone who dis-agrees is not amongst us...and there are those who try to change salah for dhikr(zakri)...or do away with salah altogether (e.g pervaizis)...such things are "not" permitted..
The sunni muslims have chosen to follow the prophet's sunnah; for them - the sunnah is the Quran and the shariat. It is recommended to seek guidance from the ways of the Prophet(s)but to follow the sunnah in its entirety is to follow the 7th century ways & customs in this century and into the future.
What is interesting to note is that both Pukka & salafi are driving their arguements based on sunnah. Why not use the Quran - my fellow muslims? At least see if the sunnah checks out with the Quran - OK!
For those who haven't read the sunnah - I strongly recommend that you read them and pls come back and tell us about the experience. After all, your ulemas have commanded you to follow the sunnahs of the 7th century for all times; so do read up on the book of Bukhari.
1) Let me ask: who were the first to create official sects or taqleeds? They were the sunni theologians. One cannot blame the shias or sufis because they were the followers of the Ahle Bayt Imams; we shall come back to this. The sunni theologians created their own taqleeds/sects with their shariat, Their own books of Fiqh or Islamic Jurisprudence. Can you show me where the shias or sufis did this?
2) Let me ask this: who was responsible for the fall of the Ottaman Caliphate - the Religious Authority of the Sunni Muslims? They are the same people who are responsible today for tearing the ummah apart with their extremist teachings. They, my friends, are the Wahabis/Salafis.
3) Pakistani2000 wanted confirmation about the one sect that will go to Jannah hadith/sunnah. His intention is of no concern of mine because I know I can pop his delusion with the truth that comes from the Quran.
Here's what salafi writes:
"the Prophet(saw) mentioned the splitting of the muslims into seventy three sects and all of them in the fire except one. Then the companions asked, which one is that sect and the Messenger(saw) said, that which he and his companions are upon."
Note this part of the above quote: "He and his Companions are upon." Although, this is not a CORRECT quote which salafi has provided but this will suffice. The part of the quote is being refered to Ahle Muhammed or Ahle Bayt. According to the sunni definition of Ahle Bayt, the Companions/Sahaba are considered Ahle Bayt. And, with that you - Salafi just lost the debate.
The prophet is talking about following the Quran and his progeny/Ahle Bayt. The Holy Prophet said: "I leave behind for you two weighty things: the book of Allah and my 'Ahle Bait/Household' If you attach yourselves to these two you will be rescued."
The Holy Prophet said: " As the stars in the sky are the Source of guidance to the travellers, The Holy Ones of my Ahlal Bait are The Source of Guidance for the people. And, as the stars will remain in the sky until The Day of Judgment, The earth will never be without a Divinely Guide from My Ahlal Bait, That is an Imam/Leader/Caliph".
The confirmation of what the Prophet meant has come from the founder of the sunni school of thought - Imam Shafii who has said the following:
"When I saw different schools of thought directing people toward the seas of ignorance and deviation, I boarded the ark of salvation in the Name of Allah. This arc is verily crystallized in the "ahl al-bayt" of the Seal of the Prophets, Mustafa (s)."
4) Salafi further states:
"If the Messenger(saw) told us about our life to such detail, that he(saw) even told us how to go to the bathroom, then would he have left us in confusion with regards to such a great matter, i.e. path between Paradise and Hell."
What a liar, this salafi is! The prophet himself warned:
"Do not write anything from me EXCEPT QURAN. Anyone who wrote anything other than the Quran shall erase it."
" the messenger of God ordered us NEVER to write anything of his hadith."
The four guided Khalifas who ruled the Muslim Umma (nation) after the death of the Prophet Muhammed, respected the order of the Prophet and prohibited the writing and collection of Hadiths.
This prohibition of hadiths was continued until Omar Ibn Abdel-Aziz permitted the writing of Hadiths and Sunna, then many books and (Kararees) appeared containing Hadiths.
If you feel otherwise or that Allah wanted us to follow the Sunnah then please show me the ayas in the Quran which says this - Please.
5) According to salafi - the Prophet wanted us to follow his companions/sahabas then Today, only the sufis and the ismailis follow ahle bayt. Are they the only true muslims?
Continued in Part II.