What's the difference between a religion and a cult?

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Re: What's the difference between a religion and a cult?

if you are suggesting that you should be able to belittle the religion that the majority of this membership holds dear then here are two things for you to consider:

-- not gonna happen
-- you obviously are unable to argue your point of view and present it as the correct one without insulting the opposing view...

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Re: What's the difference between a religion and a cult?

No, no, and no! I have no interest in making mockery of religion. It's mocked enough I think. I will be first to admit that Yes I have done it and I am not that ashamed of it. What's the problem with wanting to point out logical flaws in religious theories? There's a big difference between critisizing and mocking something.

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The sole purpose of your post was not to understand the difference between religion and cult it was just to come here and do some more anti religion trolling. You are smart enough to understand the difference between a religion and cult , you just wanted to come and rant more against this very forum , your infarction points and religion.
[/QUOTE]

To me, there's no difference between religion and cult. I created this thread to understand what YOU folks think the difference is. Clearly, you failed to do so. If we as people of this age do not show any tolerance towards cults, why do we let people do everything under the sun in the name of religion?

Why so against questioning your religion? Why do you accuse me of trolling when I have given you very defined reasons for my stated opinions? Reasons you don't even have a rebuttal for! Except for calling me a troll or saying I have an agenda. If I have some atheistic agenda, you all have religious agenda that you will be passing on to your children.... That's a MUCH bigger agenda than me making a mere comment here.

[QUOTE]
You did not come to have a civil dialogue you came to say that all religions are false that was your agenda , right there.
What religion or cult being false has to do with any religion being false or not.
[/QUOTE]

Because you can sit there like the rest and critisize cult behavior, behavior you believe to be abnormal. To me what y'all believe is abnormal. I live among all abnormal people by that definition. So yeah, I should be able to at least critisize it ONLINE because I feel I am the sane one. I should have the right to question, to compare, to critisize religions. We treat religions like they are somehow different from cults. They are not! People do all sorts of crap in the name of religion but the moment another self-proclaimed prophet comes around, he is sent right to a mental asylum. If we let all those self-proclaimed prophets do their thing, we would have another million religions.

Point is....Mainstream religions have been shielded from any questioning and critique to this day! This has not only skyrocketed conversions, it has resulted in more persecutions of those who do not believe and other minorities. Religions should be questioned and critisized the same way politics are critisized..... Besides, I wasn't even trying to critisize religion to begin with (my comment about comparing god to the devil). I just stated my opinion and instantly "earned" those infraction points. This obviously ticked me off because it's this behavior that makes me want to do this EVEN MORE...Why not have a debate, refute it, or ignore it...why delete/move it? Is this some sort of fear of more rebels coming out? Am I going to cause people to denounce their faith? If your faith is that weak to begin with, you don't deserve to continue believing in it...This is exactly what cult members do. They shield you from finding out the truth.. They know another reality exists outside of their little churches and madrasas. Ever wondered why God asked Eve and Adam not to touch the tree of knowledge? What is it God was hiding?

As to why I come to GS? Well, it's an outlet for me to be able to say things I can't say otherwise . I live among muslim Pakistanis and I hear offensive things everyday and people don't even realize how something is offensive. I don't think much of it because they have the right to say/think what they want. However, it's this same right I can't practice because there's a good possibility of me getting hurt and others being hurt (yeah, I will say it Muslims are by far the most intolerant people I know). I am fortunate that my family is understanding but others like me aren't that lucky.

Last but not least, this is very similar to how minorities feel living in Pakistan, they have to watch everything they say. I watch what I say. They must do everything very carefully and in secrecy Or the big dogs will come and get them. 99% of the people have no clue I am not mulim because I will be judged cruelly, shunned, or even attacked if they found out. Why must they live their lives as if they are walking on eggshells? This is the same behavior that our country needs to change by changing its constitution. Pakistan is not ready for someone like me just yet... Why persecute someone for speaking up when they have things to say you can't even refute? This is fear, ignorance, and jahalat.....

The above reply is meant for everyone not just Mirch. I respect all of you a lot as people of principles and good pakistanis. However, this does not mean you must shoot everyone else down who doesn't share your religion or culture. Let people practice feedom of speech at least on this forum (of course within limits, and as far as I see, there's no tolerance.). Let's not give people like me a reason to kill their patriotism towards Pakistan. I still have plans to do a lot for battered women in Pakistan. Do not kill my passion for it by scrutinizing what I say here! I don't do this offline. At least let me be who I am here... If a comment of mine here and there about religion ticks you off, refute it or ignore it. Don't delete it or give me infraction points. Similarly, I see a million comments that tick me off and I refute it or ignore it. Of course you shouldn't let people call each other names and let them fight like hungry wolves. BUT at least take the time to understand their question before jumping to either call them Indian or a troll. If you notice, for all the infraction points I have gotten under this nick, it was in response to another member's thread. My replies maybe different but not insulting. What would I gain by speaking up on this forum as I am probably the only active atheist on this forum? I could easily go to an atheist forum and badmouth you, your religion, and Pakistan. I have no intention of doing so because no matter how much Pakistan would hate to have people like me, I do love the country I was born in. It breaks my heart to see it falling apart. I come from there and I would love to one day change it for the better....

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Re: What's the difference between a religion and a cult?

Categorically declaring all religions false is religious trolling. It is insulting to those who believe in religion.
Only atheist are not smart , there are more smart religious people on this planet earth than smart atheists.
If you see any problem with any religious philosophy or belief or paradigm you just point that out . categorically calling all religions false without any concrete proof or empirical evidence is religious trolling nothing else.
I have already said that people do bad things to people not religion or lack of it.

24

Re: What’s the difference between a religion and a cult?

you had a case…to begin with…:faizy:

25

Re: What's the difference between a religion and a cult?

Whoah!

Peace Theorist

I'm sorry you got infraction points ... but there are a whole number of reasons why we Muslims do what we do ...

Tolerance ... Tolerance is an important topic to understand properly, it does not mean or translate to bend over backwards while I whip you tolerance ... it means to give others and expect from others mutual respect. Muslims are not people of turn the other cheek, but we are people of ok I'll let you off this time ... do you see the difference?

Tolerance should not come at the price of making us lose pride in our beliefs ... so we need to find that balance ... even you can understand that being a rational being.

Now to answer your questions ...

What is the difference between a cult and a religion ... My definition of a cult is where the organisers/leaders of the order have ulterior motives and position themselves apart from the followers duping them whilst knowing they are making a gain to serve their own personal ends ... however a religion however new it is does not do this ... the leaders/organisers are part of the followers. It is therefore possible for some leaders of established religions to behave in cult-like manner, and it is also possible that if a cult survives some generations it begins to accumulate truer religious outlook ...

Now who is to say a given leader/organiser has ulterior motives? Well some indicators can be seen from their behaviour in private ... and many frauds are unleashed when they are observed in private. The opposite is true for a true prophet ... there are countless references to inform us of the sublime excellence of Muhammad (SAW) in public and even more devotion when he was in private ...

A cult is not a religion and Islam (in my opinion) is like no other religion, but is the codec of life.

.................

I would like to leave you with this thought ...

In a public toilet on the wall someone writes "Nietzsche: God is Dead" then underneath in another handwriting it states ... "God: Nietzsche is dead"

For someone to have written this on the wall of a toilet is where the problem is ... instead of cleaning the first statement off the wall the respondent seems to find it befitting to respond with a bit of wit and humour ... Truly in such a case the hearts are dead of God if they feel they can write His Name in such a place ... It is the Muslim's urge to purge impurity from the Name of God ... so when devil and God are being equated you can't expect a Muslims to ignore it ... the moment we ignore things like that will be indications that our own faith is falling ... In Europe first came tolerance of godlessness and then came godlessness ... We cannot possibly follow in the same footsteps ...

26

Re: What’s the difference between a religion and a cult?

Loved your response! You are the only one who really understood what I was trying to say. Thank you! As for the last para of your post, this is a valid reason from your POV to delete any such statements by anyone on this forum. It is fear after all, ain’t it? I applaud you for at least recognizing it while everybody else really failed. For the same reason I know Pakistan will never change either. Hence, my efforts to keep trying to reconnect with it when I have hardly anything in common with its people, culture, and religion are pointless. From here on, I will not make any statements that express my feelings about religion and God.

Peace to all… :wave:

27

Re: What’s the difference between a religion and a cult?

I thank you for the undeserved compliments, but I will clarify the point about “fear” … not it is not fear … it is the sense of just reaction … it is called ghaira in Arabic … it is the appropriate response to incredulity, even if that was not the intent of the instigator to annoy or ridicule, the reaction demonstrates - a sacred line has been crossed.

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Re: What's the difference between a religion and a cult?

Regardless of different definitions given to religion and cult by people, from what I understand:

Religion: Religion (all religion) teaches people ways to better oneself, promote goodness, and help other beings physically, morally, and materially. Teaching of religion provides peace and harmony in society around, and look towards appeasing God by appeasing creation of God (other beings around). Religion allows people to question anything regarding that religion, get into discussion so to get convinced, and follow religion only when one is convinced of that religion. Obviously, if one could not question a particular religion than there is no reason to expect anyone to follow such religion other than those who have no brain to think and is thus willing to follow blindly what they could not understand and believe on what they are not even convinced.

Cult: Cult teaches ways to harm oneself and/or other beings in different ways materially, physically and morally. For people following cult, even thinking/beliefs of appeasing God are linked to harming themselves or other beings. Cult abhors questioning and thus shuns any question regarding cult’s beliefs and its activities.

So to me ... any belief or creed that promotes harm (of any kind to anyone, including oneself) and abhors questioning is cult. Whereas any belief or creed that promotes tolerance, harmony, goodness, humility, and Kindness, and do not discourage questioning beliefs of that religion is religion.

Religion sent by Allah in true form (example: Islam), have convincing answers to all questions (except answers to certain few questions whose convincing answers cannot be given in concrete form as human mind cannot fathom them). Anyhow, most people follow religion blindly (as people follow cult) and hence discourage questioning.

29

Re: What's the difference between a religion and a cult?

There isn't that much of a difference. Christianity actually started out as a cult in Rome. If people are against even questioning religion then please look up the Westboro Baptist Church and see what brainwashing can do to you. I'm not saying all religion is bad but you can't deny the political undertones in the establishment of every religion. Is your faith really faith or just a by product of your environment? Just something to think about.

30

Re: What's the difference between a religion and a cult?

Both wife and hooker are people trying to survice in this world. IMO, most hookers are victims. A legal execution and murder is a different comparison than wife and hooker.

A better comparison for the first case - what is the difference between a person who has consensual sex and a rapist. It is time we stopped denigrating women who just try to get by and make a living. Especially as a religious person, one should empathize with the victim (hooker) rather than view them with disdain (as one would a murder).

Also, the bar appears to be high for Theorist - she should be free to express her views - her conclusion religion = cult was a direct result of Nom's post which (sarcastically I assume) stated both to be equal.

If one is secure in one's religion, no need to assign infraction points to silence intelligent debate - even if the point of view is diametricaly opposite of the majority.

31

Re: What's the difference between a religion and a cult?

I agree with your position - cheers!

32

Re: What's the difference between a religion and a cult?

The point of this thread was not to understand the thought process of the religious folks as claimed by OP in the first post the point was to :
make a mockery of religion ,
prove that there is no difference between a cult and a religion
to put those down who follow religion because all religions are false and the are all morons because they follow false religions.

33

Re: What's the difference between a religion and a cult?

It depends on your perspective.

34

Re: What's the difference between a religion and a cult?

cult is NOT a religion, it's just an deviation/offshoot of a religion and is a part of it. Religion ENCOURAGES you to think while cult makes you to STOP thinking! someone else thinks for you. in a cult setting, your BODY N SOUL is kept 'CAPTIVE/HOSTAGE'!!! :(

35

Re: What's the difference between a religion and a cult?

Question - Was she silenced because she equated religion to a cult? I don't see any infraction points being thrown at her for this thread which is proof enough that GS doesn't have an issue with atheist debates. She got points when she said God = devil which didn't offend me but it offended a lot of people around here. Is it too much to ask atheists to be a little more sensitive about the feelings of the majority of the members here? Apparently, it really is that freakin hard to cut out the insults and keep the discussion an intellectual one. You want to say Mohammad saw wasn't a prophet? Please go right ahead, I'm all ears. But if you feel it is your right to insult religious figures from any religion, and if you start comparing us to radical racists for not letting you do that, there's the door. Where has GS silenced "intelligent debate", please do point that out to me. Theorist might think she's the only one with a bheja around here but we're not doodh peetay bachay either. We can very well differentiate between intelligent debate and insults. I don't care if you meant to insult or not, if it offends people you do what sane adults do - apologise and don't repeat it over and over and over again like a stubborn child.

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Re: What's the difference between a religion and a cult?

I'm not that familiar with Theorist's views, but I have to interject because the above point seems to be a recurring theme on this thread, indeed in current politics. People, and Muslims in particular, seem to react to perceived "insults" without much provocation. Debate often involves having to consider views that conflict and challenge one's own. As adults, getting "insulted" over an opposing opinion should be a petty non-issue, if not plain ridiculous. Whether it's the philosophy behind blasphemy laws, calls to violence over dutch cartoons, or condemning those who feel divorced from religion and express as much, we collectively need to grow a thicker skin when our beliefs are being questioned. Did the Prophet display such exaggerated indignation when he was being physically assaulted for vocalizing God's message? No. Is it time to stop taking ourselves so seriously when we start equating religious dissent with the "the loss of pride?" Yes.
God does not diminish with "insults," perceived or real. Yet our volatile reactions imply Divinity is vulnerable and in need of rescue.

Trolling is one thing, and I understand rules must be enforced on online forums as in any public space, but I don't think Theorist qualifies as a troll. She seems genuinely curious as she grapples with theology, choosing to express her misgivings about organized religion with the intention to engage others. If she's not resorting to name calling, bullying, or inciting violence, what's the uproar about? If we can tolerate people trolling about sex and frivolous things in Life1, why not her?

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Re: What's the difference between a religion and a cult?

True but just because idolatry is such a ridiculous concept to me doesn't give me the right to start ridiculing the hindu gods and offending our hindu members on GS in the name of freedom of speech. When the hindu members send in their complaints about my posts, the administration doesn't shut them up by telling them to grow a thicker skin, they come to me and request me to be a little more sensitive about the feelings of our hindu members. No reason for an uproar on my behalf, is it? And can those hindu members be compared to radicals for getting offended at what I say about their gods? I don't think so.

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Re: What's the difference between a religion and a cult?

B'Cue - there is absolutely no question this forum is very tolerant. Personally this is te first and only forum I am a member of. we view the world through different prisms. If we pick and choose certain sentences, there will be plenty of things to get offended.

The partial sentence "True but just because idolatry is such a ridiculous concept to me" can be offensive to a Hindu - you could have framed it a bit less directly - "True but just because I find several Hindu concepts hard to understand" rather than use the word ridiculous.

Also, you have taken sufficient care to use capital letters when referreing to the Prophet Mohammed, God, Muslims, Divinity. However, you refer to hindus (not capitalized).

Now, I know you are a tolerant person. However, it comes across as a bit disrespectful from a Hindu perspective. For example, I will always use capital A when referring to Allah - whether I believe in Allah or not is immaterial - because those who do use the capitalized version.

This message is not meant to be provocative - just to point out the nuanced way in which one can be insensitive to others.

There is enough bad vibes in this thread. I am sorry I contributed to it. Peace.

For what it is worth, the Moderators do a fantastic job, and we are truly appreciative of all of your efforts.

39

Re: What's the difference between a religion and a cult?

I would absolutely understand if this did offend a hindu person and I would apologise and be careful in the future. It wouldn't hurt my ego one bit to be more sensitive towards members of other faiths.

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Re: What's the difference between a religion and a cult?

Excellent post