Re: What’s your obsession with Indian films/songs?
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*Originally posted by Zakiii: *
I admit our films are a bit crappy and lame but they are improving and need our support, maybe our directors wont be so desperate then and cut down on the nanganess a bit.
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Thats a very good point. I know some decent, clean flicks where the directors didn't go the Bollywood way, and the movies bombed. But then you have the as cliched as it gets Yeh Dil Aap Ka Huwa which though a boring movie, was 'clean', and it worked. Some standard has to be set to limit vulgarity. Pakistani writers have penned some excellent scripts in the past, both for television and cinema. We have to get good, intelligent scripts that reflect our times and our values, and execute them in such a slick way that no one cares for Bollywood. In other words, Pakistani cinema is doomed until it carves it's own individual niche - we MUST have faith in ourselves.
Re: Re: What’s your obsession with Indian films/songs?
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*Originally posted by confettiguy: *
Thats a very good point. I know some decent, clean flicks where the directors didn't go the Bollywood way, and the movies bombed. But then you have the as cliched as it gets Yeh Dil Aap Ka Huwa which though a boring movie, was 'clean', and it worked. Some standard has to be set to limit vulgarity. Pakistani writers have penned some excellent scripts in the past, both for television and cinema. We have to get good, intelligent scripts that reflect our times and our values, and execute them in such a slick way that no one cares for Bollywood. In other words, Pakistani cinema is doomed until it carves it's own individual niche - we MUST have faith in ourselves.
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What do u mean by Bollywood way. Pakistani movies are not good, period. Everyone knows that. But as you say, not all Pakistani movies are bad, thats exactly how not all Indian movies are vulgar. Movies like Chandni Bar, Dil Chahta Hai, Astitva, Dil Chahta Hai and many more are excellent movies and are worth seeing again and again. Bollywood is vulgar, no doubt, but not all movies are like that. Once in a while a movie does come from bollywood which is worth seeing, exactly how once in a while a movie does come from lollywood which is bearable.
Re: Re: Re: What’s your obsession with Indian films/songs?
^^ It's easy to call just something as plain bad, quite another to delve into WHY it's bad. Talk to the Lollwyood directors, producers etc. who say that Indian cinema has corrupted the tastes of the audiences, thats why they have to put in trash. That's a fact. Rain drenched dances and women gyrating and exposing flesh are NOT part of Pakistani culture - thats another fact for you, so to acertain extent they ARE correct. Lollywood got all this from Bollywood. So when I mean someone is going the Bollywood way OFCOURSE I mean they are going towards the general trends in Bollywood. Since the last decade or two, and more so currently, Bollywood has gone towards turning out sex-filled masala pot boilers....and NOT your Dil Chaahta He kind of s tuff. So when I mean Bollywood I mean Bollywood - not the exceptions you are talking about. Period.
It's also because of people with your kind of mindset, who are convinced that all Lollywood is bad, and who patronise Bollywood, that our cinema has not gotten outta the rut. Had people supported good cinema such as Laaj or the never released Zargul [the distributors said it would never get an audience] among countless others, our cinema would be in a much better state.
Re: Re: Re: Re: What’s your obsession with Indian films/songs?
confetti, man have you seen Zargul? do you know where I can get a copy. I've heard amazing things about the movie. it apprently won some award in 1998 in the Toronto film festival. been looking for it forever now.
So in order to build Pakistan's film and music industry we have to put another's down?
If Pakistan's industry can't support itself, then it has other issues to deal with. But I don't think that's the case at all. I think there's lots of talent. We don't need idiots putting other nationalities down in order to achieve success.
The fact is Indian movies are a lot better than our movies. THere was a time when our movies would compete with the Indians…in the 60s and 70s, what happenened after that, would you care telling us. Did the Indians all of a sudden corrupted the mind of the public, they prob even made the quality our movies go down…
As far as dramas are concerned…there was a time i would enjoy watching them, but now adays all i see is crap on Prime TV. Silly comedy shows, what happened to good humor?? Paki dramas are goin the Indian way. We started doin soap like dramas, and silly comedys.
They only think thats on the rise is Paki pop, and our pop videos…but that dont make Indian filmi music bad. Its different from our pop music, but it still is good.
I know the Indians make a lot of crap movies every year…but they got a a few really good ones comin out every year…which mantains their image. Unlike our Lollywood.
So the point was to give credit where it is due…if u think watching Reema shake her ass…is patriotism…then go do it Confetti.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What’s your obsession with Indian films/songs?
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*Originally posted by sambrialian: *
confetti, man have you seen Zargul? do you know where I can get a copy. I've heard amazing things about the movie. it apprently won some award in 1998 in the Toronto film festival. been looking for it forever now.
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Zargul is available on the video circuit in Pakistan, though I think to arrange your own copy you'll have to go to some person who directly deals with the folks who get the prints....that's how I got my hands on Samina Peerzada's Inteha, which was not available in ANY video store in Pakistan....what a shame.
Sharaabi, the fact is, ** YES **, with the so called 'VCR revolution', the Indians DID change the audience's tastes. Thats a fact, which can not be ignored. And this happened in the 80s...like you said in 60s 70s when we were largely 'shielded', our cinema comparitively was THRIVING with what it is today! As far as you thinking Indian filmi music is good...then God help you, t hats your opinion.
Had you read my previous posts, you would have reasoned that Reema shakes her ass because the audience wants to see that. Another thing they've had enough of it now. And as I mentioned in my previous posts, I can give you many, many examples of movies which tried to break fresh ground for Pakistani cinema without involving the grotesque Bollywood cliches.
Then and again, its your industry, your cinema. It's convenient to disown it, but tomorrow when Bollywood will bombard you with it's own political agenda, you will not be in a position to CRIB or COMPLAIN> It's Indian cinema - and not Pakistani cinema - they have the right to show whatever THEY want.
I don't know why guppies are getting their chaddies in a knot because of Pakistani artists going to India to make money. India is a bigger market, offers them more opportunity and more recongnition. It'S a no brainer for them to markeet themselves in India. Nobody has a right to tell someone else how to make their living. Above al the guppies who have moved to US/Canada/UK/Auss and presume to tell Pak artists what to do. Hypocrites.
BTW I am hereby launching a petition to have Nayyara and Asif Ali moved to India. We love them.
Why did people stop watchin Paki movies in the 80s. It was because Indian movies were better, u cant stop a consumer from choosing a better product.
The fact is when u dont move with pace of time, u get left behind. The cameras the techniques the Pakistanis used were a generation behind, than what the Indians were using. Why was it so?...even though our industry was thriving witht the likes of Waheed Murad, Mohammad Ali and Nadeem attracting the masses.
You cant just keep making the same stuff forever, and expect your people to buy it. The public has the money, they want the best product. Dont expect them to keep following even though u making a worthless product.
The fact is when u dont move with pace of time, u get left behind. The cameras the techniques the Pakistanis used were a generation behind, than what the Indians were using. Why was it so?...even though our industry was thriving witht the likes of Waheed Murad, Mohammad Ali and Nadeem attracting the masses.
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Wrong again. Nadeem, Waheed Murad became stars when your Indian movies were running in theatres in Pakistan. But we were pretty different in terms of the treatment and themes of our cinema, and it worked. That tells a lot , inspite of the much blamed on 'Camera Techniques' [someone tell me, what the hell is a 'camera technique'?????], our stars absolutely RULED. The fact is, only in the 80s did the audience start to wholly patronise Indian cinema, which destroyed the audience tastes, and so the movie makers started imitating Bollywood, getting in the Vulgarity and the terrible hipshaking in order to attract the same audience which was weaned out to Indian films. You could partially put the blame on the Zia govt too, which fired the last shot by attemting to 'register' film makers and limit their independence.
You're saying Pakistani cinema is all bad, something which iI TOTALLY and ABSOLUTELY disagree with. Supposing all our audience has a mindset like yours, our cinema surely doesnt stand any chance at all. It's a NATIONAL DISGRACE - these idiots are the first ones to dis their own stuff, not ready to give it an iota of chance. Why dont you complainers actually go to the theatres to watch the better stuff which atleast comes out in the form of one movie every year? Maybe that will encourage our moviemakers to make GOOD, DECENT, BETTER movies, and yes then they may be even be able to afford to employ the fancy 'camera techniques' which you guys so seem to fancy. One word: SHAME!
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*Originally posted by Sharaabi: *
Confetti...learn to give credit where it is due.
The fact is Indian movies are a lot better than our movies.
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I havent seen a more flawed statement. So Terey Pyar Mein became the Indian Gadaar, and some upcoming movie by some major Bollywood production house is also a rip off of TPM. Then Insanaiyat became Baaghban....recently the title track of 'Deewaney Tere Pyar Key' was copied in some Bollywood fillum....and I am ONLY giving you recent examples, that too just for starters. You are wrong. If u cared to watched them, the only factor in which Pakistani movies, such as INTEHA, JEEVA, DEEWANEY TERE..., LAAJ etc. were a bit inferior to Indian ones was in their GLOSS, which is basically due to the fact that Pakistani movies are made at a fraction of budget.
So what you are saying that just coz Bollywood films are fancier they are better than Pakistani films. Just tells you are not a very discerning film viewer. Let me point it out to you that Pakistani movies lack the gloss unfortunately because of people who have predetermined views about every Pakistani film. Hence a limited audience gets to the theatres, meaning reduced revenues. A bigger market would definitely mean a better product.
I listen to Pakistani music as well as Indian and American.
I watch Pakistani dramas, Indian movies, and have tried watching Pakistani movies but unfortunately, couldn’t help ffwd thru most of them. I do the same with Indian and English movies too. I’m not saying they don’t dish out stupid movies in other countries.
Stop making everything a patriotic issue. People have their likes and dislikes. Just because thousands of people showed up to watch Sonu Nigam or Saif ali Khan in concert, doesn’t mean they are less Pakistani (however u define that) than if the same thousand people showed up for a Junoon or Ali Noor concert.
Don’t know why entertainment has to be defined by borders
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*Originally posted by Rukhsarbibi: *
Stop making everything a patriotic issue.
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RB, that's what I am saying, and I shall keep saying: It's NOT about Patriotism. It's more about having predetermined opinions, about not giving the product a chance, and in turn conveniently patronising some foreign cinema which borrows from your own.
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*Originally posted by Sharaabi: *
Pakistan has a lot many more problems, our society has a lot more problems....than the sorry film industry.
So stop winning...and look around, there much more bigger problems, for Pakistan. No one cares about the Pakistani film industry.
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Thats the best you could come up with? When all your silly arguments were proven as flawed, you could only counter it by saying that Pakistan has too many problems and that cinema should be left to rot.
What a truly inane thing to say.
Do you have any idea what how important cinema is? I'm not gonna give you teaching lessons on this one. America won the world through Holywood, China did it to a certain extent with it's movies, and now your beloved next door neigbour is doing it.....go figure!
Hence a limited audience gets to the theatres, meaning reduced revenues. A bigger market would definitely mean a better product.
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It's a no brainer that Pak should try and market their films in India and allow Indian movies in Pakistan. Both film industries will benefit from that. Alas, this cannot occur to you as you are born with a congenital hatred for India.
