What Would Reform Islam Look Like?

I’m gonna play devil’s advocate: I’d expect the following based on the model of Reform Judaism:

  • Abandonment of Shari’ah, or at least complete and total re-interpretation, with the added caveat that much of it is symbolic, and what really really matters is the thought behind it
  • Prayers in any language, not just Arabic, and wider use of translations of the Qur’an (no more memorisation of Qur’an in Arabic for non-Arabic speakers)
  • Separation of religion and state
  • More openness to non-Muslims, their beliefs and their ways of life (no more “Don’t do it because the Jews/Christians/unbelievers do it”)
  • More private and emotional, rather than legalistic
  • Recognition that, although Muhammad and his companions were “the best of Muslims,” the world has changed and their ways of doing things may not be appropriate to this day and age
  • Complete equality for women, no more separation of men and women, same rights as men in all aspects of life
    Now, is this Islam? That’s what I ask myself. I’m sceptical.

What is Islam, anyway? Some Muslims insist that certain Muslim countries with rather barbaric practices “are not practicing true Islam.” Well, what is True Islam? The Qur’an and the Sunnah? So who gets to define and interpret it? The 'ulama? The sheikh of Al-Azhar University in Cairo? The Ayatollah (for Shi’ites)? The mass of scholarly opinion over the centuries? Muslims themselves? Which ones? The ones that make the most noise? The ones that called for Salman Rushdie’s head on a platter for apostasising from Islam? Islamic Studies professors, most of whom aren’t even Muslim? Who?

Re: What Would Reform Islam Look Like?

**

  • Abandonment of Shari'ah, or at least complete and total re-interpretation, with the added caveat that much of it is symbolic, and what really really matters is the thought behind it
  • Prayers in any language, not just Arabic, and wider use of translations of the Qur'an (no more memorisation of Qur'an in Arabic for non-Arabic speakers)
  • Separation of religion and state
  • More openness to non-Muslims, their beliefs and their ways of life (no more "Don't do it because the Jews/Christians/unbelievers do it")
  • More private and emotional, rather than legalistic
  • Recognition that, although Muhammad and his companions were "the best of Muslims," the world has changed and their ways of doing things may not be appropriate to this day and age
  • Complete equality for women, no more separation of men and women, same rights as men in all aspects of life **Abandonment of Sharia is fine if we're talking about abandoning or reforming those laws that have been modified by humans due to historical circumstances. However, if by "sharia" we mean the actual Quran and Hadith, then I personally think things would be much simpler if laws were made directly based upon the Quran and only those Hadith that are backed up by the Quran. Certain hadith's, especially those that are misogynist and clearly contrary to the Quran need to be abandoned, but no one really has the guts to do it.

I agree with prayers in non-Arabic languages. It only makes sense. The biggest reason that most muslims aren't following their own religion is because they don't know what the scriptures say, because translations are not widespread and promoted, like say, in prayers read in mosques.

I do not agree with separation of religion and state, because no such complete separation is totally possible. State laws are based on morality, and morality either comes from a morality code that a group of men make up, or a morality code that comes from the religion that is predominantly followed in the State. So if you say, lets take Islam out of the government...then who is going to determine how the laws read? Some guy? Which guy? Why not a group of people? Who is this group of people? And don't tell me democracy, because in a democracy, not everyone is going to get their way. And if the majority of people are muslim, democracy will dictate that we need to follow Sharia anyway. And if the muslim majority is ignorant, they'll probably pick a version of the sharia practiced centuries ago, in which problems like misogyny will crop up, because again, we fall on the fact that we're following the hadith (man-made) more than we are the Quran (word of God).

I agree to openess towards non-muslim way of life. But again, if the majority of people are muslim, certain non-muslim practices just wont bode well in this muslim state anyway. And not all non-muslim ways of life are peachy. Plenty of social/political problems exist everywhere, and no one group of people has yet run a perfect civilization.

I don't know what you mean by "More private and emotional, rather than legalistic".

I agree with your last two points.

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we need role-models in our life all of us do that is why we have the examples of the Prophet(saw) and the Companions(ra)

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It would be pathetic, that's what "reform islam" would be..

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Not sure if I agree with prayers being in “non-Arabic”. However, I do believe in sermons being in English. It irritates me beyond belief whenever I am at the mosque, and the imam is giving his sermon in Arabic (only), and everyone (who’s non-Arabic) is looking at him pretending to understand what he’s saying.

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Correct, people who want prayers in different language what the point you want islam to become like chistianity full of errors and different meanings because that what will happen islam and quran is kept in the classic fusa arabic language for a reason.

If you want to understand speech given by imam this different question and valid, the imam should be able to make his speech understood by majority of mosque.

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The above defined "reformed" Islam would be very similar to Hinduism, Christianity etc... with only some differences.

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Laws cannot be based on the Quran because in the Quran there are no laws for modern conditions, except a few specific laws on theft, inheritance etc. There are no laws on competition, no laws on intellectual property, no laws on water resources management in Siberia [there might be some on Arabia], no laws on civil liability of employers for health and safety, no laws on corporate liability, and so on and on. The Shariah has only negative injunctions (no interest, no uncertainty in contracts etc). All the positive injunctions are about personal conduct (washing, eating, drinking, walking, enjoying, etc). The Shariah is not a legal code. It is a jumble of dictates on how to wash yourself, how to pare your nails, when to, how to cook food, how to walk, etc. etc. It's not a legal code that can supply the needs of a modern free market economy. Pakistan's criminal code is based on the British criminal law. It's laws are based on English common law. The same applies to every country. Even Saudi Arabia has had to adopt Western commercial and road traffic laws, because the Shariah has got nothing about these matters (though it does have laws dealing with caravans).

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There are three models you can have: (i) secularism: there is no official or state religion; e.g. Turkey, France, United States. (ii) official religion: having Islam as the state religion, e.g. Pakistan, all the Arab countries, etc. (iii) Islamic state.... Taliban, Iran, Saudi Arabia, i.e. which enforce the Shariah. State laws are not all based on morality, some are just based on convenience and practicality, e.g. traffic laws: it's not morally wrong to park on a double yellow line. Only some laws are based on morality (e.g. murder, rape, assault, theft etc). But this does not mean that these laws cannot be justified independently of religion.

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that is correct, why is christianity in the state it is today because they reform it which i don’t blame because christianity could’nt deal with peoples problems long time ago. But to apply this argument on the islamic ideology is wrong because unlike christianity, islam has complete system of life which no other ideology has.

Re: What Would Reform Islam Look Like?

There is an Islamic law that was extracted form the Quran and Hadith. Even the methodology of classical Islamic law can be applied to new circumstance using the basic premise that a) existing laws/restrictions can be extended by anaology and b) everything is allowed unless it is either i) strictly forbidden or ii) can be logically equated to something that is strictly forbidden.

There is no SINGLE Islamic law, but rather an entire class of possible laws.

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why didn't the Shariah council of Saudi Arabia analogise from the rules about camels and come up with a traffic law?

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I'm talking about laws in general. Yes, there are laws based on convenience, etc, like traffic laws. Those you can do as you wish based on what works. But then again, EVERY law, whether its even a stupid little traffic law, CANNOT contradict the Quran, even though it may not be found itself in the Quran.

Like for example, you can't have traffic laws that say only rich people can ride the roads, and poor people have to walk.

Etc.

So a state's full set of laws has SOME dependance on morality. Therefore, you either bring in morality from a pre-coded religion, or you make up your own morality as you go. So today, you think abortion is wrong, so its banned by the gov't. So tomorrow you think abortion is cool, so you allow it. Or you can just refer to Islamic basics, about when life is supposed to be formed, and make an abortion law based on that.

Anyone who doesn't like Islamic laws can leave the state, and anyone who does stays. Its that simple.

The caveat is in how these laws are applied, and to what extent they depend on dubious Hadith's like how women are not permitted to lead, etc. Most of the hadith that are shady are about women anyway, and that's something most muslim countries are figuring out how to deal with as it is. And of course, there is no one country where you have a full gov't led by honest people that are applying the Quranic laws and values in the correct way. In saudi, you have utterly ridiculous laws that are unfounded religiously and only have a cultural basis, yet they are passed off as Islamic laws (e.g. women can't drive). In Pakistan, you have laws that are being applied for poor people, but rich people can buy themselves out (I think this applies for almost every darn Pakistani law there is in the book).

I think its when governments don't apply the right Islamic laws, or they change around Islamic laws, or they don't apply them to everyone equally, that people get offended. In that case, Islam doesn't need to be reformed. I think the disgust most of us feel in these sorts of issues would easily be eradicated if we focused on how to reform muslim people to act Islamically, instead of trying to figure out how to reform Islam.

You're talking about reforming a religion, when no one is following it much to begin with. So how can you say the problem is with the religion? Maybe the problem is that people don't know how to follow their religion, or they're not willing to.

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Sorry, I sort of skimmed through the posts and read the last few messages. Why are we talking about reforming, we dont even understand the simpliest concepts.

Islam and the shariah will be there, if people like it or not. The shariah will only be applicable if people accept and follow it. Governments of today, including Saudi Arabia, do not follow it in its entirety as it would negate a lot of what they are doing. If one spends the time and actually does some homework on this subject one will see that the Shariah is very accomadating in somethings and is a codified way of life that can be used today. Unfortunately, our religion has been hijacked by the ignorants of our societies and hence have been protrayed as being harsh and narrow. Just remember the Shariah has been around for more than 1400 years ago, through tough times and good times. In fact it was the codified law that at one time was applied from Western Morroco to Iraq we know of today...under one government. (ie...the Turks)

If you look at history and the trauma the Muslim nations have gone through in the past 150 years...perhaps the reasonings of our current situation will be more appearant.

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:bism:

4:89 **They **but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.


3:19 The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account.


2:208 O ye who believe! Enter into Islam whole-heartedly; and follow not the footsteps of the evil one; for he is to you an avowed enemy.


61:8They (non-muslims) desire to extinguish Allah’s Light (by blowing) with their mouths but Allah will perfect His light, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it).”

61:9 “It is He (Allah) Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, that he (Muhammad:saw: ) may proclaim it (Islam) over all religion, even though the idolaters may detest (it).”


Khud ko badatlay naheeN, QuraaN ko badal daitaY haiN
Yeh Faqeehaan-e-Haram!!!

Re: What Would Reform Islam Look Like?

It’s true that in “real life” today, I’d say that probably most of the dictates of Shari’ah (however you interpret them) aren’t followed and, in fact, not even known about by the populace at large.

But let me add a twist.

Suppose there arose a group of concerned Muslims who took a long, hard look at the Muslim world around them and basically agreed with your point about people not behaving Islamically. Being noble, knowledgable members of the Ummah, they set about changing this sorry situation, inviting ignorant Muslims to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong, all the while drawing upon their considerable understanding of the Qur’an and the Sunnah.

Lets further assume that this not not confined to any one point in time and space, but is linked successively thoughout history wherever the clarion call for for wayward Muslims to amend their transgessing ways is made. In each and every case, these people are pushing forth an “Islamic Reformation”.

Here’s the rub: To simplify to epigrammatic proportions, it is not possible to have a future reformation in Islam as in the case of what happened in Europe with Christianity, because the “Islamic Reformation” was already initiated a long time ago. For any religious “Reformation” to take place, it actually refers to going back to first principles of that ideology, which are assumed to be good. This is what happened in the Protestant Reformation, and also steadily built up in Islam with the ascendancy of people like Imam Ghazali, Ibn Taymiyyah, and Muhammad ibn Abdul-Wahhab, and more recently, Hassan Al-Banna, Maulana Maududi, Sayyid Qutb etc. All were “Islamic Martin Luthers”, to varying degrees.

But going back to basics in Islam, as an “Islamic Reformation” would have it, takes you to Muhammad and the first four “rightly guided” Caliphs. Going back to their values would mark, without a shadow of doubt, a present disaster for human rights and enlightenment values. In accordance with this “Islamic Reformation”, the areas of Shari’ah that are most likely to be implemented in modern-day Muslim countries are those dealing with family law, women, and the like, which are typically horribly misogynistic. Especially if, of course, the ulama scholars are constantly dispensing fatwas and advice based on all aspects of Shari’ah, as seen on sites like Islam Q&Aand Ask the Imam.

In contrast, what the misnomer “Reform Islam”, which I described in my first post, represents is a Transformation, not a Reformation. It begins by completely rejecting the example of Muhammad, especially the Medinan Muhammad and the values he advocated. So, yes, I agree with those Muslims who insist there is no need for a future “Islamic Martin Luther”; they already have gotten it. Several of them, in fact. Bin Laden and his fellow Wahhabis are only among the most recent crop of fellow Muslim reformers.

In my opening post, I asked everyone whether it’s possible for a “Reform Islam” to exist, and if so, who has the right to define and interpret it? I also expressed scepticism on “Reform Islam” ever being accepted in mass droves. I think that probably most people here would seem to agree with me. And from what I have come across elsewhere, I can say with some certainty that there is no irresistable incentive among Muslims, other than scatttered fringe elements, to take up such a modern reading. In any fight between “Reform Islam” and “Islamic Reformation”, it’s pretty clear which would win. Every time. And it’s very likely to stay that way.

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reforming Islam is like "hey what does Allah knowabout what we need, lets change it to make it better"....
and the way u think that way, u r out of Islam and that new thing u form can be called deen-e-ilahi (as emperor akbar called his reformed Islam) or anything else, but it wont be the Islam that Allah accepts....

Re: What Would Reform Islam Look Like?

re·form

1. To improve by alteration, correction of error, or removal of defects; put into a better form or condition.
2.
1. To abolish abuse or malpractice in: reform the government.
2. To put an end to (a wrong).
3. To cause (a person) to give up harmful or immoral practices; persuade to adopt a better way of life.

Being Allah's chosen religion, islam itself does not have any defects or errors in it to be correded or put into a better form. Thus #1 cannot be applied to islam. There's enough in the Quran and Sunnah about obeying Allah and his messenger, as well as warnings about changing the religion even a little bit (no innovation in religion)

"And obey Allah and the Messenger; that ye may obtain mercy. " - 3:132

2 and #3 however are entirely different things. The reform needed is in peoples thoughts, not in religion. The reform needed is in the realization that all things modern arnt exactly inline with our true core belief's and that all things modern cannot necessarily be applied to, or compared with our religion.

Recognition that, although Muhammad and his companions were "the best of Muslims," the world has changed and their ways of doing things may not be appropriate to this day and age

The above is a rather childish statement considering the Quran and Sunnah say nought to change your ways as times change. Rather they do at every corner warn about going against the ways set down by Allah and his Prophet. Nowhere does the Quran tell us to obey the Prophet only close to the time of the prophet. Nowhere does the Quran put a time limitation on following Sunnah, rather it is a timeless law and as such must be abided to inorder for us to be successful. The Quran makes that clear enough.

One thing i`ll agree however, is that at the heart of each of these arguments is a basic lack of understanding of the message of Quran and Sunnah.

If i said anything wrong above, may Allah forgive me.

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How can people follow a system when it is not applied, the muslim countries today are run by the secular extremists and they ensure secular laws are forced on top of muslims.

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I do agree that religions should be updated to reflect human advancement - whether it is Islam Christianity Judaism or Hinduism (or anyother). Much of the strife in the world can be directly traced to the divisiveness casued by some who want to stick to the past and those who want to move on. Many feel 'updating' of religion is blasphemy or in some way, an affront to God, their rationale being "if I say God's work needs to be updated, then I am claiming to know better than God"....that is very wrong since the "I" in you was also created by God and so if you change/enhance/update, God is just acting through you. It is not an affront to God.