Your previous experience with the employer that believed a knee-length skirt and blouse are "western attire" is a reflection of his personal preference. The corporate world for women, though still adorned with glass ceilings, has become quite accommodating. Besides, some of my best "power suits" have slacks for bottoms.
I work in what is commonly referred to as the "high-tech" industry and my clients are primarily from the financial vertical (i.e. the conservative and highly opinionated major banks). My employer IS a Muslim, however, he has never once dictated what he would like me to wear. As long as grooming does not become an issue, he feels that people should be able to dress comfortably so that they can produce quality work.
There are various leniencies that are extended, Farouq, to programmers and analysts. Some of my best guys have long hair and earrings (two characteristics that banks had outlawed in the past) but are very well received due to the huge amount of expertise and knowledge that they bring with them.
Perhaps I am fortunate to have the opportunity to work in such an environment where what's inside your head is more important than what is wrapped around your body.
Everybody is throwing in Qs, its hard to catch. Anyway I try.
SABEEN!
I'll marry anybody as long as I feel compatibility regardless of "HIS" or her past. Understanding of religion will remain "VITAL" whether religuous or not.
Muzna-: I've been a baywatch fan as well but no more 'cause No I've got my own private channel. Now I'm a "babewatch" fan.
As u said yourself, that Dupattaa or hijab doesn't matter in working places, its whats in your head that matters. it stays true in general as well, it is better to have "Pamela Anderson" as screen saver then an arrogant, stubborn and venomous woman wearing red hot Dupatta and spreading sarcastic smile.
Lahori badshah-: 'll u marry any of those, if they ready to make Naan Paayay for u? just wondering.
Nazia-: I did a job of "Stripper",........... I mean wallpaper-stripper though it was "meree Shaan kay khilaaaf". It all depends how compromising you are?
Daysee Behnaa- I do fear God, BUT don't know what fear is...??? Does it make God a scary thing ......I don't know this at all.
Anyhow, I'm a strong believer in doing things to personel satisfaction and to an extent to others liking as well for the people, I care.
Cheers,
Kaleem
It surprises me to learn that there are Pakistani men with the kind of mentality you talk about. However, I have yet to come across a Pakistani with that
mentality . They have all been extermely courteous, understanding, outgoing and at the same time focused on their Islamic identities. I'm afraid your portrayal of the Pakistani male is a tad exaggerated. Uneducated classes all over the world would have similar problems, simply because women in all cultures all over the world have been dominated by men. It is only when the females started getting educated that they realized there was something called human rights and started fighting for theirs. (Remember the times when women were supposed to be kept bare foot and pregnant??) These evils may still exist among our less fortunate citizens, but it doesn't seem to be the rule.
Regarding your comments on women's behaviour according to the Quran and Sunnah, well, just what is wrong with the woman lowering her gaze in the company of men. Aren't we being slaves to the Western mentality when we feel that eye contact is important?? We are culturally different so why can't the corporate world accept us as we are, rather than making us conform to their standards. I don't know what it is like in your country, but here in the States, I can fight for my rights. There have been many cases where women have fought for and won their right to wear Hijab, say their namaz in office hours etc etc. You can only stand up for your rights if you have faith and belief in yourself. With a slave mentality, one will always be struggling to conform to others' norms.
well, about the dress code issue at work for women, i don't think you should compromise your religion and beliefs for a job. I mean if you work at a place where alcohol is freely passed along at meetings and such, will you drink it just to 'fit in'???
I hope i misunderstood and maybe you can clear it up farouq taj but when you said...'If your career prospects are good and a bright future lays ahead for you then put on the uniform and leave the Shalwar Kameez at home. At the end of the day it's your life and you must make something of it. By doing well in your job you will be in a position do make choices of your own. You will no longer be a domesticated Pakistani girl trained only for making chappattis and ironing your husbands shirts. If you want to avoid remaining or being a victim then you must be willing to make sacrifices. Leaving the shalwar kameez at home may not be such a great sacrifice. However I realise you also have to consider the reactions of your parents and other males that control or influence your life...'
are you implying that a 'domesticated pakistani girl' follows under a man and would never express her own opinion but only serve males of her family?
and another thing, how can someone give up their religion over a job; as you have proven yourself knowledgable in the aspcets of behaviors or interactions permissable between the sexes, you have then said break all the rules in the workplace so you can be free from a despisable future in the house....
well you are still not 'free' even then b/c you have jumped from bad to worse...
but i do agree with you that 'most' pakistani women are expected to stay home and have a certain role to play as dictated by our culture, not islam, and inshalla' that will no longer be the case as more and more women are attending higher education institutions and securing careers, not wealth or status from their husbands!!!!
I do agree with you Ricshaw, the thing is that Islam has given women alot of rights and they are allowed to work, but never compromise their faith over a job, that's right.
Islam and Pakistani culture are two different things. People confuse traditions with religion. Allah has given women alot of rights and a great status in Islam.
Thanks.
Sabeen
[quote]
"It surprises me to learn that there are Pakistani men with the kind of mentality you talk about."
[/quote]
We clearly mix in different circles. I am of course generalising to an extent however I have found in my experience that a Pakistani girl here in the UK is often under the control of a male. If she has a father he will control her life otherwise and sometimes with the father an older brother will take charge. On marriage control passes to her
husband. This is very much the rule here in the UK. It appears as though things are different in the US and I suggest the social makeup of the US Pakistani community differs. My understanding is that there is a higher proportion of educated Pakistanis in the US than here in the UK. Perhaps this is a factor responsible for the differences in male attitudes towards Pakistani women.
The lowering of the gaze is but one of a number of items I listed. I was illustrating the difficulty of trying to follow the Quran and Sunnah in the context of this (UK) society. I wanted to spell out exactly what following the Quran and Sunnah entails for a Pakistani woman. By all means if a Pakistani girl wants to lower her gaze she is free to do so. However lack of eye contact is interpreted in a number of ways in the UK most of them negative.
I said at the outset of my reply that we will get two different types of replies. How many Pakistani girls are in a position to take their employer to court ? It is extremely rare for a Pakistani girl to work here in the UK. If she is working it is often due to some dire necessity. An example would be a Pakistani girl who is divorced and now has a child to raise. Such women have neither the resources nor the will to fight such battles. It is women such as these that I have in mind when I write my comments.
You seem to interpret any compliance with 'western' idea or social value as slavery. This is a very negative attitude to adopt.
If a Pakistani girl chooses to wear the hijab then that is here choice but she also must bear in mind that she has to comply with the full set of rules. Ultimately it is her choice and I respect whatever decision the Pakistani girl makes provided she had the choice in the first place. Whether the set of rules are acceptable in the first place is
another question. The role of women in Islam as defined by the Quran and Sunnah is something that I have always been
uneasy with.
Rickshaw:
Aside from the fact that no employer would allow such alchohol consumption I would suggest a Muslim ought to leave such an organisation. Mere refusal to participate in the drink will simply alienate you from the workforce.
[quote]
"are you implying that a 'domesticated pakistani girl' follows under a man and would never express her own opinion but only serve males of her family?"
[/quote]
In a nutshell yes. A significant proportion of Pakistani girls in the UK are denied the right to education, employment and many other things in life. I would like us to treat them with more dignity and respect.
well i don't know farouq taj, your vision of the treatment given to Pakistani women seems very bleak, I'm not saying that this does not happen, just that it is very sad when it does...but i didn't know or think that this is such a frequent occurance, at least from what i have seen...
But let me get this straight, you said that...
...The role of women in Islam as defined by the Quran and Sunnah is something that I have always been uneasy with...
is this because of what YOU have seen practiced as islam by some pakistanis?
Because Islam has given women the most freedom and respect, especially since the time of jaha-lia. Now in this time period there is still a level on jahalia amonng the non-muslims as there has always been but it also exists among us. What you have seen as 'high control over females' is not islam, it is based mostly on the Pakistani culture. These are two different things(islam and culture), and sometimes they conflict and eventhough islam should win, it always doesn't.
Well people,
I am not in a position to say what is right and what is not. However, I totally agree with what you guys had to say about differentiating between religion and tradition. The mentality of the so called "religious" people is not a result of their true understanding of the faith which as Muslims we are supposed to adhere to, but it is a product of the social conditioning that they have gone through. Islam as I see it, is the most tolerant and open religion of all. Did you know that Jewish women are required to cover their heads too. Its a different story that they don't and that they have ways to get around that. I work with one, and she wears a wig for that purpose. U know, aik teer dow shikaar,
fashion + religion = satisfaction.
As far as the women reactions are concerned, I see all kinds. There are students I see who wear Hijaab and adhere to five daily prayers even with no supervision. Then there is a lady who talks to people of different faiths about the "ignorance" of those women who cover their heads. Exteremes prevail!
Shariah doesn't dictate girls to do some of the things we are told it does. It is just a way to suppress them. I was too happy to hear that news last year when a Shariat court in Pakistan had given the girl permission to marry according to her own wish, and punished the father because of wrongly imposing himself.
I understand what you say about the make up of the Pakistani society in the UK. Since majority of the Pakistanis in the UK seem to be uneducated, do you not think the few educated people like yourself have an obligation to help out the not so fortunate ones. Forming of social groups to address issues like you mention would be quite in order. Create support groups for people who've been victimized by husbands/employers and the like, and help them fight for their legal rights. This is what is happening in the States in all communities and with much success. This would be a better alternative to giving in to the Boss's or corporate mangements wishes against one's will. I sincerely believe that noone should be forced to give up one's culture, whether it is reflected in their way of dressing or otherwise. Isn't that what a free society is all about??