What step to take next...?

Society Business and Career
1

Hmmm

I’m kind of stuck in a static position right now and not sure what to do next.

As most guppies who frequent this forum know, I completed my undergrad last year in Computer Science from the USA and came back to Pakistan where all my family is, currently working at an IT/e-learning job. Its a normal kind of job and alhamdulillah I’m very happy there, I look forward to going to my office everyday, mostly because I love the work atmosphere and the people there and the work is not too crazy. Two of my good friends from highschool are my colleagues so its a constant party time at office lol feels like home, and the office environment is very friendly and relaxed as compared to some others where my friends work. We do work too but its in the stride and not a pressure. The pay is not that high and career wise its a small company so not many prospects of advancement, plus its not a big company like a big multinational and I could have gotten a much better job in that sense. So I see the pluses and minuses both but alhamdulillah I’m very happy here for now.

The reason I am working at this job till now and not at a more “challenging” job such as maybe with the Pak Govt or some world agency (which were my initial plans) that involves travelling to other Pakistani cities (which would have been my dream job if I got the permission from home to do this which come to think of it I most prolly wont) is because for many months now I have been thinking I am going to apply to grad school in the US and this is a relatively laid back job so I’ll be able to apply to grad school if I’m working here as the job itself isn’t so time consuming and stressful.

Grad school though. I’ll be applying to USA and Canada for that. That’s a decision I’m not being able to make. There are so many things to think about.

I’m thinking should I stay in Pakistan and keep working here, coz the truth is I like living in Pakistan and despite everything, friends and everything, I just find it very difficult staying away from my family and living by myself in the USA plus I want to be with my parents. All my friends and family are here. I feel like my whole social network and support system is here. I don’t have anyone in the US, except some close friends in bay area California from my undergrad, but I can’t be sure I’ll get into a good grad school in California so I can’t depend on that I guess, plus they’ll have their own lives when I go back too and I can’t depend on them that they’ll be there with me all the time. I know one makes new friends and all that, but still just the thought of uprooting myself from this comfortable cozy nest I’m in and going there is somewhat overwhelming. I guess grad school won’t be as tough as undergrad in terms of getting used to a new environment coz I’ll be older and would be going through the experience a second time.

Plus I’m broke. If I apply to grad school, I’ll have to work my way through grad school thru TA or RA ships, which I guess is not that bad coz most people do that anyway, but its going to be two years of hard hard hard work and a tough busy life. All the money I’ve saved till now from my job (I don’t spend too much but I don’t know what happens coz I suck badly at saving) will go towards grad school application fees, ticket etc. I won’t even have enough to pay for the fee of the first semester. My parents ofcourse can help me and will go to any extent to do that but I would hate to be burden them at this time so I want to atleast try and do this on my own.

Plus I feel like a grad school degree is important if you want to become a CEO or something or doing a really technical job, but I don’t have such long terms plans. I just want to keep doing my own thing and be happy with it, eventually go into some form of entrepreneurship most prolly clothing or education related but which won’t require a masters degree.

But then again, these days most people in Pakistan are atleast masters. All my best friends have done their masters. My mom really wants me to get a masters too.

So if I stay in Pakistan I can get an MBA from IBA or LUMS I was thinking. My concern with that is that firstly these schools won’t compare to my undergrad school and secondly it will mean I will be a student for that long, I won’t be working which means my parents will have to pay all that heavy fees which I just really don’t want them to.

Plus I also am not sure of which field to apply to for grad school abroad. I cant get into a good MBA program abroad (which would have been an automatic choice) b/c that requires work experience, though I can do an MBA from Pakistan now.

I also think (I’m not showing off) but I do feel like I went to such a good undergrad school, and now I need to go to an equally good grad school, otherwise I’ll feel like I have regressed rather than progressed in life. Alhamdulillah for my undergrad degree but it is actually a huge pressure on my shoulders because I expect myself and I guess others also expect me to perform at a certain level which is quite high and not doing that makes me feel somewhat like I’m wasting myself.

Also I feel like the experience in life I’m getting by working and living in Pakistan is something really valuable and real, and living in the US seemed like an artificial life. I want to come back to Pakistan after my masters as well so if I stay here then I’ll be more established (personally, socially, career wise) if I stay here.

Khayr…I’m just stuck and not being able to decide anything and haven’t made any progress. The application deadlines for grad school are like very close. I haven’t studied much for GRE’s at all, and I’m completely out of touch with academics. I haven’t researched into programs. I basically need to make a decision this weekend if I want to even make the deadlines. Hmmm…I guess I need to make choices. I can’t have everything in life. I need to just choose a direction, make peace with it and stay with it, and try to move ahead.

Khair…

anyone actually read this? :hehe:

2

^ i have a feeling this has less to do with yr confusion abt yr future, and more to do with not being able to study for gre :) as in since u cant get yrself to study u r making all sorts of excuses on dropping appliyng to grad skools this yr or something. (yeah i am turning into a psychic!)
otherwise seriously none of the above options are mutually exclusive. u do yr gre, apply abroad or not, u can always apply to LUMs or iba, at the same time. wahan pay bhi gre hi chaly ga, no extra effort involved. as for job offers, job toa hoti rehay gi, wheter u get into a good place abroad or not, so why think abt jobs right now. chup chap gre karo, apply and then wait n see what transpires. dont worry beforehand :)

3

omg u pathar ki zaban :rotfl:

sigh

why doesnt somebody ghoTT those gre books and feed them to me in a feeder :hehe:

hmmmmm lekin…

kya wakai aisi baat hae ??? :eek:

its jus k why waste so much effort of taking gre, applying etc if i dont wana do it? :S ye bhee toh point hae na :stuck_out_tongue:

like u c, im not finding the motivation to study for GRE coz i keep thinking mujhay bahar jana bhee hae ya nai :slight_smile: agar irada pakka hota toh i wud be studying, so thats the whole thing k i havent been able to make up my mind till now. coz i can seriously get myself to study only when i know im doing it for a real purpose and will end up going. u know?

4

ya it must be working both ways, laikin in the end i'll say, its always better to take one step at a time. abhi gre kar loa sahih sai, cuz it will matter for lums/iba as well, stop thinking ahead of time :)
PS: and ghulail is muannis.

5

yar lums/iba k lyay gre nai gmat chahiyayn from what i heard..atleast lums k lyay toh..
waise bhee most prolly if i do mba here then ill go to iba not lums aur iba ka apna test hota hae
haan u r right, gre hi kar loon toh acha hae :)

p.s. tum kon ho? i thought tum koi larka ho :D apnay baray mein kuch batao plz :o pm pe beshak

6

hmm.....irem note it down ....i agree with ghulail .....for the first time (probably)

the thng about ghulail is .....nop matter how hard is to digest her lecture ...its always honest :)

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^ hehe, ahem how does that relate up i wonder?
as for me…umm i kinda didnt forget to fill my profile u know. it was umm u know… :dixsi:

8

Afia baji naheen aap bhee is kee side pe chali gaYeen :crying:
:smiley:

waise i wud really love to hear ur thoughts on this dilemma of mine :smiley: either here or on PM :smiley:

ghulail sharafat se bata do :snooty:

9

ghulail.....ever read 'mitti ka diya' by mirza adeeb ...???
you remind me of 'jalwa begum ' in that :D

irem ...i'll pm u later , inshaAllah:)

10

Irem--- I actually did read it. Ok jokes aside, I really think you should go for it.There are many negative aspects to it- but in the end I think the postive will rule those out.

The costs are always an issue, but you can try government loans,grants, scholarships.Who knows , you might get lucky.And once you do have your degree, you can go back to working and pay off your loans.I know you must be worried, Im the same way.Alhamdulillah at the moment I have no loans to pay off, and Im almost done with my degrees.I dont even work, shame on me.

All I think is that whatever costs need attention- I can do that once Im working on a permanent basis.

And ofcourse its tough getting used to living on your own, and I can understand what you mean when you say that all your family and friends are back home, however if you dont apply for a grad school, you might end up regretting it in the future.So I say take a deep breath and go for it.

11

apply karo unis kay liay.. yahan kia rakha hay :hoonh:

inshallah you wont have to pay for grad school. have you looked at HEC grants? a LOT of people are coming here on those where basically the deal is that you have to sign an agreement that you will come back to pakistan for a specific number years, and they pay for your edu. i think they’re mostly for phds and you’re not planning on one, but you should see if they have any masters options.

12

Hmmm I feel like I’ve put forth my thoughts on this so many times to you Irem, but here goes once more… and yes, I read your whole post – it wasn’t too bad actually :) seemed like a logical albeit somewhat difficult contemplation.

Let me address your points, one at a time, relating these to my own personal experiences going through undergrad school, the workforce, and grad school.

1: Which school you go to:

Let me confess that I went through almost the same dilemma when I finished my undergrad degree, again, from what is arguably regarded as the best school in Canada… having had a couple of years of experience under my belt and some industry endorsements as well, I felt like I had the opportunities to join the workforce if I so wanted. The couple of multinationals that I interviewed with had offered me a position. However, in my mind, I always wanted to go to grad school, and professional school moreover (MBA) which would cost money. I applied and got into the best MBA school again, but couldn’t afford it… it was far beyond my reach, and I didn’t want to apply for student loans cuz it seemed absurd. On the one hand, I could be earning a $70K/year, on the other I would take a loan for $25K/year. In the end, I decided to go for my MBA at a decent school while working my a$$ off in a full time job… and believe me when I say it paid off. Based on the fact that I had work experience on top of my degrees, I still ended up being in the same league as grads from the other schools when it came down to job applications. So, lesson #1 is not too worry too much about the name of the school… its your individual performance that will matter in the end… you’ve gotta prove yourself no matter where you are.

2: Your family life:

Grad school is a major undertaking, one which needs social support from people around you… you need bolstering and encouragement from family and friends… which inshaAllah you’ll have in the form of dua’s and blessings from your parents even though you’ll be away from them. For me I wasn’t too far away from family but still felt a lot of pressure and wanted to give up quite a few times. On the contrary, my colleagues who lived with their families always had someone’s help at home and it seemed like a breeze for them. So yes, it will be hard to stay away from your family, but you’ve done it before, and it can be done if you put your mind to it.

3: Whether to go for Grad School afterall:

I think you’ve mulled over this for too long, and that just tells me that you really want to do it. If you don’t, then you’ll regret it for the rest of your life, or you’ll keep thinking what it would’ve been like. That being said, you do need to narrow down your choices. You need to select a field which you feel will contribute to your professional development. Like you said yourself, you don’t necessarily need a Masters degree for the type of work you want to do, but it will help, so make sure it does help!

In the end, I think you should spend at least another year in the workforce… this will do a few things for you:
1- give you more time to explore opportunities that interest you, and help you narrow down your choices,

2- give you time to plan your grad school applications and get the GRE/GMAT out of the way,

3- explore funding/financial aid options for your studies

4- give you sufficient work experience to apply for MBA if that is what you want to do.

Hope this helps, and good luck once more :)
Rab Rakha.

13

Re: What step to take next…?

nope

14

Irem...I think I can understand wat you are going through..coz I am in the same situation...the only difference is that I am working in the states rather than in Pakland (where I will inshallah come back soon)... and my dad wants me to do my masters..and its just too much effort.. like 2 more years...getting into a good grad school and all that stuff..so am not sure that its worth it..especially since I plan to be in Pakistan..I mean why spend $35K a year (thats wat the fees is in most good grad schools) when my job in Pak will not be more that Rs. 40 K to start with... plus I think experience is more important than a degree ...in any field...moreover the people hiring in Pakistan are mostly alumnis from IBA or LUMS...so they prefer graduates from those unis.
why don't you look towards other countries..I mean I know that American degree is probably the best (more coz of the mentality of the people back home than anything else) ...but like Masters from Australia..its lesser time...and half the money than in the US...
I personally am looking into that pretty seriously...its half the cost and i can get a Masters' degree in a year(not an MBA...a Masters) ...plus I hav a couple of friends who live in Aus and got into the Masters in comp. science in top Unis there ater 1 yr of work experience..and they are already getting job offers in Pakistan...so its not as if an Aussie degree is worthless...
well I hope that you can actually read through all of this ;)
hoo aah

15

oh and one more thing...its hard living away from friends and family...so thats another reason to get it done (if you plan to) in a shorter period of time...

oh and plus...if you go for ur Masters and not your MBA you do not have to give GMAT or GRE (in almost all unis in Aus and in some in the US)..so thats another plus...

16

hey everyone

thanks a lot for the replies :slight_smile:

ffaisal80

That’s true Faisal. Then again you tend to think that if you are giving that sacrifice in the first place then you could just add a couple months, a year more and end up getting a better degree. I guess its got its pluses and minuses like everything in life. Hmmm.

That’s also right. In my case though, I’m totally unsure about what masters to do, I mean I do have an idea but I don’t think it will really help me with what I want to do in life, I’ll be doing it more just for the sake of getting a masters, but an MBA is the type of degree which really helps you, no matter what field you choose, its much more useful and in demand than a random masters. I don’t know about the US but in Pakistan, MBA’s from good places are big time in demand. You just need to look at the Sunday Classified Dawn and every other ad is asking for MBA, and ones from IBA/LUMS are given preference, so I guess if you have one from abroad thats even better.

Faisal, I see. Hmmm. You want my honest advice based on my personal experience? I think bro you should go for your masters. Your dad is right. I mean it.

I mean, I did my undergrad and at that time my mother was telling me to do my masters right after but I was double minded because for one I was not sure about the field and secondly I just really badly was tired of living by myself and wanted to be back with my family in Pakistan so I explained to my parents that I wanted to come back to Pakistan and they agreed, but my mom told me I should get my masters later though.

I graduated last year in the summer and been working in Pakistan for about a year. I was alhamdulillah able to get a good job. But bro, things in Pakistan career wise are a lot more competitive now. Everyone has a masters. If you want to get ahead you need a masters I think. Plus if you have the opportunity then why not just go for it? Its not like a PHD where you have to spend ages.

And ofcourse they prefer IBA and LUMS grads over other Paki MBAs BUT ofcourse an American MBA from a decent American school is even better than that.

If you come back to Pakistan after all that work experience and degree you’re gonna get a really good job, maybe starting from 70-80K.

Experience is important too. Its very important for sure. I think you should go for an evening executive MBA or an evening masters. Just get the degree done, it will help you loads and you won’t have any regrets later that you abandoned the opportunity. Plus, your dad really wants you to do it as well. My mom want me to do it as well, and that’s like a major thing, coz I don’t want to feel like I let her down in this matter.

hmmmm…Australia?

The only countries I even thought about were USA and UK. And USA degrees are more prestigious plus I’ve already spend 5 years in the USA so my mind is set on USA and if not USA then Canada.

My brother is in Germany actually but I didn’t even think about that. About Europe, firstly their degrees are not that presitgious, and another main thing is, I know myself and unless I atleast have a supportive group of Muslim girls around me, I’ll probably be really really lonely and have a nervous breakdown :smiley: I mean, I really need that support system and community around me. Its tough already to stay away from your family and on top of that if you don’t even have good friends then your life becomes miserable. In European universities they don’t have many Muslim females in universities. They don’t have MSA’s and PSA’s. I know its prolly okay for you though coz I have had there are a lot of Pakistani guys in these places. In American and UK colleges though they do have a lot of females.
Plus USA is like a “jaani pehchaani” jagah lekin these other countries are completely new places for me. USA was new too when I went for undergrad, I didn’t have any relatives there neither had I ever been, I look back sometimes and think WOW how the heck did I do that. Unbelievable but I was only 16 when I left home, and I had led such a majorly sheltered life in Pakistan. But I guess I was too young then to think, parents sent me and I went happily without having any fears. I guess I’ve become a chicken now rather than being braver :smack: Oh well :smiley:

17

Re: Re: What step to take next…?

wud :hoonh: dafa ho :hehe:

18

salams Umar

hey! no fair :hehe: yes you HAVE put your thoughts forward to me in most of my threads (abt which I am very thankful and I do value your advice :slight_smile: ) , but I think this the first time that I’ve discussed this exact matter and all these issues that I mentioned in this thread :smiley:

You’re totally right about that Umar that you do have to prove yourself wherever you are. The name of the uni counts a LOT though. I mean, I know that even though my performance in my undergad uni was not academically outstanding, just the name has helped me tremendously in many places. I completely understand and to an extent agree with what you said. Plus I know I might not be able to get into as good of a grad school as my undergrad college. It was tough to accept and in the beginning that was one of the reasons I didn’t want to go to grad school because I thought unless I’m qualified enough to get into a prestigious enough grad school, I just won’t even apply. But now I look at some of my friends who have gone to other less ranked schools etc and I have realised that its not so important so I have made peace with that fact, but that charm of a presitigious name does still attract me and if somehow I’m able to I do want to try for that but I’m not keeping that as a primary condition or something.

thanks :slight_smile: inshallah…

haha! :hehe: you’re prolly right there…
Plus my mom really really wants me to do it, she won’t let me NOT do a masters :smiley: Its either a masters or MBA, but she would be highly disappointed with me I think if I didn’t do a grad degree…

Well, to be honest Umar, as retarded as it may sound, the primary reason I’ll be doing a grad degree right now is just b/c I need to get a grad degree and as I said my mom really wants me to.

For the things I have in mind for myself in the long term, I don’t need a masters, I want inshallah to start most probably either a clothing or education business in Pakistan, and no one is going to come and look at my degrees for that. I think an undergrad from an American college is good enough for that. So career wise I want to go into entrpreneurship, and I don’t need a masters for that.

However, I keep thinking of the myriad “what if” scenarios. Not to mention, these days EVERYONE in Pakistan is a masters. All my friends from high school have masters. I feel like I’m not “educated enough” and that’s also another reason I want to get my masters to come on par.

I know some of these reasons probably sound dumb to you, but I’m just being honest.

And I guess my problem is also I don’t know what exactly I want so I want everything :hehe:

Hmmm. In many ways that would be ideal, but I have to also think about saving time and not delaying the completion of my education too much :confused:

1 - If I apply for masters, I’ve already narrowed down my choices in terms of academic fields I will pursue. Now, its a matter of actually surfing into the websites of some of the schools and finding a program that I will apply to which matches with the field(s) I have in mind. If I have lets say 10 schools in mind, this should take only one day to do, technically speaking, isnt it.

2- GRE: I think I’m obsessing over this too much :confused: I have been giving myself time for the last couple of months to study for it and I’m such a last minute/disorganised person that till now I’m on square 1 :confused:
I will probably again be in the same position in Nov next year. So I guess I still have about 2-3 weeks to take GRE for most of the colleges I have in mind. I don’t HAVE to learn all those 3500 words. I should maybe just do some intense studying for a week, pull all nighters, maybe take a leave from work, and then just say bismillah and take the GRE coz I prolly never will get around to studying for them really throughly even if I give myself years.

3- There are not many and not many will come up by next year. I basically know that I have to do TA and RA ships when I end up going, as thats what most international grad students from Pak do.

4- That would be the only worthwhile reason. Actually right now that’s what I have told my mom that I am waiting to accumulate enough work experience for an MBA.

I think though that this time I’ll just take the plunge inshallah and do it and see what Allah has planned for me…

Thanks a lot Umar. I may not necessarily follow the advices you or someone else gives me, but it really helps just to even discuss the matter. I’m grateful to you for spending your time and giving me detailed advice.
Thanks a lot :slight_smile:

Rab Rakha
wa salam
irem

19

well Irem...abt the fact that masters is important...I agree...but then again there are a lot of things to consider....i chose Masters over MBA coz...MBA is more generic whereas masters is more specialized...MBA takes 2 yrs - masters take one....MBA is twice as expensive as maters....mba requires more work experience to get into...plus GMAT or GRE...
I would love to get my MBA from the states,...but its expensive...plus will take me another 4 yrs...2 to save the money and 2 to do the program....by that time i will be like 29 or 30ish...and it would be hard for me to come back to Pakland and start my career all over again...can u imagine leaving a great job in the States and going to Pak at 30 to struggle again.....plus if i do my masters and get increasd salary over here...its going to be very difficult to leave....
the bottom line being...there are pros and cons for eveything...u hav to sacrifice somehting to gain another thing...its just up to the person to decide what is more important....
for me personally..I save time (atleast 2 yrs) money (atleast $20K) if i do my masters from Aus (plus no GMAT :)...
and another thing...if i do my MBA from here and go bak to Pak...ppl my age wud be working there for 8 yrs (assuming htey start their bachelors at 18..so 3 ys for that and 1 yr for the masters)...and theres no way I will be earning more than them or placed over them coz they will hav the experience in pakistan...
these are some of the other things u hav to consider...I hope i am not confusing u even furthur
hoo aah

20

well ...lol..I just read ur post abt accumulating work experience for MBA.... go for it...
education is an investment..and never hurt anyone
good luck
hoo aah