Re: What should we do…
I do not agree with her lifestyle nor am I downplaying that committing zina and drinking are both major sins but my point was that if someone commits one, why is it expected that they should be ok with all of them? When it comes to spirituality, although in an ideal situation, one should either abide by all the rules or none at all but humans are not that black and white.
Re: What should we do…
Good point, are you familiar with the concept of subjective morality? Most of the people here would not find drinking or intimacy as immoral but would really frown on putting money ahead of the relationship. For me being insincere and being a money oriented person is worse than drinking. I would take a sincere Hindu girl over a gold digging Muslim any day for my boys and nephews. What we believe is what we believe in and many others don’t believe in the same thing, one of my boys friends parents are Indian Christian and clean Shaved sikh, they eat all meats, drink and don’t bother with traditions and seem to have a thriving relationship, they are both physicians. Relationships can survive difference in ideologies but not in lack of sincerity.
Re: What should we do…
No one can adhere to all the rules in Islam, to sin is human. Religion might be black and white, but human nature is fifty shades of grey. What is funny is that she is against (social) drinking because she wants to raise her kids as Muslims (
), yet somehow has no problem with having sex and go on romantic trips with this guy before marriage. She does not have to be okay with every sin, but if being ok with committing zina etc won’t negatively affect the muslim upbringing of her (future) kids then neither should social drinking.
Re: What should we do…
That I agree with, the best way to teach a kid anything is by being an example.
Re: What should we do…
Don’t marry a gold digger.
Re: What should we do…
Fros parents were exemplary Muslims, they paid for a mosque in the neighborhood, did tons of Charity etc and the 2 boys I met are both agnostics. So I guess the following the example didn’t work in this case. The society here is conducive to adults choosing their own morality. Most western parents don’t force their faith on their children. All I know is he is a better human being than any religious person I came across. He has traveled thru the Amazon, back packed through Asia etc. He can tell interesting stories till the cows come home..Cigarettes are a drug also. Caffeine is mind altering also so why a war on just Alcohol, when I was back home many very religious people did weed and I find weed is a lot more potent than Alcohol..I did Bhang with some Pathans at Uni and I was stoned for 3 days straight..these guys were totally religious, wouldn’t touch alcohol ever, so why is Alcohol a demon and other mind altering things ignored in our society?
Re: What should we do…
This for some reason reminds of one of the signs of qiyamat that mosques will be decorated but hearts will be empty. From the examples that you stated such as giving charity and paying for a mosque, it is evident that it did have an effect on the kids because your nephew is not materialistic and is down to earth. He maybe agnostic but treating people with respect and still partaking in religious rituals such as fasting and eid is all the result of his upbringing. One can *try *their best to lead by example but nothing is guaranteed in life and the rest is up to God… he guides who he wills. I would also like to point out that I live in the same “here” ie. western society and have seen plenty of hard core christian families shunning their kids for not following their religion or marrying someone of another faith or ethnicity. There are a handful of reverts in our community whose families do not want anything to do with them.
If you want to go that route then it can be argued that sugar is a drug too since it affects the release of certain hormones in the brain. From what I know, there is a hadith that if anything in access is intoxicating then even a little bit is prohibited so those who are smoking weed but consider themselves religious are once again an example of picking and choosing. Also, I am curious what is your definition of a religious person?
Re: What should we do…
US maybe different than Canada, my boys gfs parents did not object for a second that she is dating a Muslim boy, they let her stay over and came to pick her up. I was with a Canadian girl for seven yrs, her family accepted me whole heartedly and my family never accepted her. Our home swarms with teenagers and none of the white and black kids have the restrictions of race and religion on them but the desi kids have serious restrictions on them. Western countries are secular societies which give people freedom of religion. Most of the western kids are secular. You will need to research morality a bit, you see religion and morality as the same thing and I feel they are different. We had some real monsters in our Eng University in Karachi mostly spoilt kids of Sardars, Waderas..feudal lords etc. They would attack you if they saw you eating in Ramadan, were regular namazis etc and would walk around with tasbeeh…a bunch of them gang raped a blind teenager girl at the Multan train station during the industrial tour. They are religious but are they moral? You will need to look into subjective morality as you seem to think there is absolute morality.
Re: What should we do…
Also I don’t think hearts are empty here, we collected over 150k for United Way in our office, most Canadians volunteer and North Americans pay billions in Charity.
Re: What should we do…
You misunderstand the hadith… Also morality is actually a YUGE part of religion, you can disagree but truth is that in the beginning it was religion that introduced morality otherwise as an example, the Arabs would still be burying their daughters. All the examples you stated of lafangas doing vile things in the name of religion they think they are oh so religious but truth is they are very much misguided, just going through the motions of praying 5 times a day means nothing, it is the character that matters. Plus you can not use the few example of violence from one region to write off that region of the world as bad and then use a few good examples from another region to paint it as a saint. Good and bad exists everywhere.
Having said all that, I am sure we will never see eye to eye so no further comment from me. I hope your nephew finds someone who truly cares for him and he for her.
Re: What should we do…
Thanks for your input, of course we will never agree after all people have been raping and slaughtering for centuries claiming their religion is moral and the other guys is immoral. We think Buddhists are idol worshipers they think we are savages for eating meat. We think western people are immoral for allowing sex and drinking they think eastern nations are uncivilized because of violations of women rights and human rights. Just an interesting thought though most of the world is dying to get into societies based on secular principles.
Also Greek philosophers introduced the principles of ethics and morality and west is still following many of those principles
Re: What should we do…
lol, this is reminding me of ethics and philosophy class in uni. we’re getting down into the nitty gritty and debating if morality is subjective or not? Plain and simple, if you believe in a higher power its objective if you don’t its subjective. At least thats how I see it.
Any ways, I think you should give him the advice that brother kanye has blessed us with.
Re: What should we do…
Success can be destructive if you don’t know how to handle it or stay grounded I think because she thinks because she is a lawyer and has a good job she can have a bad attitude. I would advice people to stay away from people who are full of themselves we get old and don’t stay good looking forever what them will be left to love
Re: What should we do…
I am happy to know things didn’t work out with the gold digger, I heard he is off to Montreal to meet someone. I think he is getting desperate. The girls who were really into him he didn’t like them> One girl he dated for a bit he said did not want to do anything. I have showed him to live life with a passion and he likes staying active, doing things traveling etc. He also seems to have that fathering instinct. He looked after his sick mother with such caring. Nice to see a big strong man with a kind heart. He is the only nephew who beat me in wrestling.