What should be the criteria to be a khalifa of muslim ummah?

Society Religion & Philosophy
101

Dance! Khalifa is here! Congratulations!

99 replies and people forget about the topic. This thread is now turning to a discussion of valid or not-so-valid hadis discussion.

Guys and Gals. Come back and I have good news for you.

Congratulations to all MnMs! The Khalifa is amongst us already. His name is Haji Namdar. He has done Huj (Why else would you call him Haji?). He is 35-years old just like MnM terrorist Omar. He may be accused of acting as “religious terrorist” but who cares. Shiateen don’t want to see a successful Khalifa.

He prays, has a beard, and carries an AK47. His word is the final word. That my friends! Qualifies him to be a Khalifa. Only Munafiqeen will deny him the Khilafat.

Click on the following link to read more.

Khuda Hafiz.

P.S. Time to kick those MnM terrorists

102

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Degas: *
A relevant question should be what are qualities of a good leader for muslims in general rather than Khalifa for Ummah.. there was only one khalifa in early days of Islam as muslims at that time belonged to only one geographical area and even in all those Khalifate times modes of rules for institutions kept on changing.. now with grace of Allah muslims have swept the globe and so many muslim nations are there - there can be as amny Khalifas as there are muslim States.. Keeping in view human capability for governance it is impossible for a single Khalifa to govern billions of muslims scattered around the globe .. so people seeking single Khalifa ae stuck with concept of earlry muslims era and dont use understanding..
[/QUOTE]

Assalamo Alaikum

The claim that Muslims only had one ruler because they belonged to one geographical area is not true.

It is well known that Islam expanded from madina, to all the arabian peninsula and started to expand into Africa. This was all during the time of the Prophet (saw), Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali (may Allah be pleased with them all). However the leadership was still centralised and there was only one leadership for the Muslims.

Having one khalifah does not mean that he rules all the provinces by himself, rather he is allowed to appoint wulaat (governors) onto each province and Amileen (sub governors). The Prophet (saw) appointed Atab ibn Usaid as a governor of Makkah Ibn sasaan a governor of yemen.

So there is a concept of delegation of rule to a governor who is restricted into his area but answerable to the khalifah.

So the wide reality of the muslim world existed at the time of the Prophet (saw) and the 4 khulafah and Allah (swt) permitted the appointment of governors.

Wassalaam

Ali

103

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by malikhan1983: *

Assalamo Alaikum

The claim that Muslims only had one ruler because they belonged to one geographical area is not true.

It is well known that Islam expanded from madina, to all the arabian peninsula and started to expand into Africa. This was all during the time of the Prophet (saw), Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali (may Allah be pleased with them all). However the leadership was still centralised and there was only one leadership for the Muslims.

Having one khalifah does not mean that he rules all the provinces by himself, rather he is allowed to appoint wulaat (governors) onto each province and Amileen (sub governors). The Prophet (saw) appointed Atab ibn Usaid as a governor of Makkah Ibn sasaan a governor of yemen.

So there is a concept of delegation of rule to a governor who is restricted into his area but answerable to the khalifah.

So the wide reality of the muslim world existed at the time of the Prophet (saw) and the 4 khulafah and Allah (swt) permitted the appointment of governors.

Wassalaam

Ali
[/QUOTE]

alhamduliah

this example just shows the practicality of islam where even if we have 2 billion + people living under the state there are governors in the various wiliyahs who keep in check provinces under the states authoirty.

104

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ChaChoo: *

Rule of the people, by the people, and for the people… that is great…. Just imagine if these people understood Islam and followed Islamic teachings that process that you call Kufur will actually create Islamic Democracy based on Allah (SWT)’s guidelines and revalations.

U going in circles again… once you establish a baseline u use that baseline to build the ruling system on top of it. For example people will not be allowed to vote on lets say making Alcohol, Pork, Riba etc. Halal. Since these things violate the Islamic teachings.

In your opinion I do not understand it and in my opinion you don’t understand it. So now what? You interpretation of this ayah is different from mine. Excuses? What excuses are you talking about? For a change, let’s have a decent/positive/open-minded discussion without accusations…

Again your interpretation of the ayah is different from mine. As far as mixing alcohol with water goes… well you can mix alcohol with other ingredients and create a medicine for ailing person, that is perfectly Halal… Muslim Ummah has been ailing for centuries now, it is about time that they take some medicine for their ailment…

Neither can you or a good Muslim.
[/QUOTE]

Assalamo alaikum

When we are discussing democracy and Islam, it is important that we understand the reality of democracy and the fundemental pillars that it it built upon. Once this is known then we can decide whether it is in agreement with Islam or in disagreement.

So lets break up democracy and see what it is all about.

Simply put, democracy came from the greek work 'demos cratos' which translates into people power. Practically it means that human beings are soverign and the laws are made through them and the constitution is ammended by them if the majority agree. So in essence, when the people agree upon a law and decide whether to be fore or against it, then the majority opinion holds weight and it becomes a law that is binding upon all the citizens.

In practice, this would mean that there is a debate and discussion between people whether something or a certain behavious should become acceptable or not. So people in thier different areas are given a choice.

The question which now begs, is that are the Muslims allowed to have a vote for a particular law. So are the Muslims allowed to vote fore or against a law that has been already defined by the shariah? For this we need to look at the Islamic evidences to guide us.

The evidences in the Quran show that Allah (swt) says, " It is not allowed for a believing male or female, to have any option when Allah and his messenger have decided something, and whosoever does this is lead far astray" [Ahzab 36].

So I think we can agree that matters which Islam has already had a say on are not debated in the chambers of the council of ummah.

So this now leaves us with the issues which the Quran and sunnah have left in the field of mubah (permissable/optional). So examples of this can be whether to build hospitals in a particular area, what mechanisms can we adopt for road safety, what are the best styles to gather public opinion regarding the election of the khalifah or how can we make the environment more safer etc.

There is nothing wrong with discussing these issues with the khalifah and having shura based on them as they are left as optional. So in conclusion, if democracy means that people are the ultimate source of laws then from this definition, it is apparent that the muslims are restricted to the law of Allah (swt), so that source which makes laws and allows us to have a say in other fields is the shariah, so the shariah is soverign and not human beings. So even in deciding what mechanisms can be used to make the roads safer, we would first need to find out if the shariah has left this issue in the mubah (optional) and then have discussions. So the muslims are always subservient to the Islamic texts and are not allowed to transgress the limits of the shariah.

I hope this has helped the discussion and maybe we can continue to clarify other issues.

wassalaam

ali

105

Not only (1)Islamic Law/Text we have from Allah.

We have two things
(1) Islamic Law/Text
(2) Ahle Bait(AS)

The Prophet [s] is quoted to have said:

“I leave behind me among you two heavy things: The Book of Allah and the offspring from my family. If you cleave to them you will never go astray.”

Dont ask for reference; Abundance of references in Islamic books and lots of discussion have be made.

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Reply to inuit & Malikhan

Salaams,

So according to you Quran and offsprings from prophet's family. Does it include ALi. And from where you would take sunnats; as Rasoul's offspring were young then.

Is Ali not from Ahllal baath e Rasoul, also are not his wives ahllal baate Rasoul?

Inuit you have confused me;

Do you know?,after lots of trail I have started believing that ahadeez are to be taken from khulafas including Ali.

But if rasoul did not mentioned about khulafas, then most of the ahadeez, which are not compatible to today's culture,todays environment we can totally ignore.

And we must without anybodies' argumental interference can write the new versions of all old ahadeez------ which are now seem to be totally irrelevant and incompatable to today's culture and environment.

So you have led the thread to your version of explanation, that khilafat was not asked by Rasoul or allah.

But what I know QURAn says there would be khulafas FE URZ all the time, and world would never be without it even a minute.

What about that then?

Malikhan:

what ever you have written makes more sense than others. But there is a problem to have democracy at the first place.

One can get votes on certain law and then it would be checked with shareyah(QURAN).

But for this we must have a civilized, educated ,intelligent culture, prior to getting votes.

If majority is uneducated, illetrate and uncivilized, then majority's votes------? how would we justify that kind of democracy?

So shall not one wait?; until we have majority who is educated, and until we have majority civilized. And then we would be able to receive the true meaningful democracy. Otherwise the best solution is khilafat ul muslimeen. Bye sokoon

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Re: Reply to inuit & Malikhan

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sokoon: *

Is Ali not from Ahllal baath e Rasoul, also are not his wives ahllal baate Rasoul?

Inuit you have confused me;

[/QUOTE]
If you are confused read the hadith as follows

I am trying to use the Arabic terms now.

"I leave behind me among you two heavy things: The Quran and the Itrat e Ahle bait. If you cleave to them you will never go astray."

108

Re: Reply to inuit & Malikhan

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sokoon: *
Do you know?,after lots of trail I have started believing that ahadeez are to be taken from khulafas including Ali.

But if rasoul did not mentioned about khulafas, then most of the ahadeez, which are not compatible to today's culture,todays environment we can totally ignore.
[/QUOTE]
What do you mean by the word Khalifa?

Why you ignore Hadith. give example? atleast list 3-4

109

Re: inuit

all those ahadeez which are for shahads for example 4 shahadats for zani man and woman.

In cemented homes who would bring the shahadats. Why not new version DNA test.

Also almost all ahadeez in which two shahadats of men are required or two ladies and one man, or four ladies.

I am not satisfied as Hazrat Ayesha(R) is taken as one man in many of mutafiq ellahe ahadeez. Against quran's ahkam that two ladies are equal to one man in shahadat. etc etc. bye sokoon

110

Re: Re: inuit

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sokoon: *
all those ahadeez which are for shahads for example 4 shahadats for zani man and woman.

In cemented homes who would bring the shahadats. Why not new version DNA test.

[/QUOTE]
1. How the DNA test would help us? Please explain.
2. I have heard that DNA is also duplicate. In that situation what is your solution.
3. If crime is not proved; what does Islamic law or any other law says.

111

Dear Inuit,

If there is ashtehad in your Fiqah, then your ahadeez can be re versionized according to the prevailing envvironment of cetain ara.

The problems of implementing ahadeez is with those fiqhas who want to bring four shahadats for a bad doers(Zanis). Which they would never ever can bring in a civilized culture, since no one would put cameras in some one's bed room. So in such fiqhas these ahadeez have lost there sense in totality.

Such ahadeez can be used to defend the person from accusation, that is all; since no one would ever be able to bring any shahadat.

I wonder how are there ahadeez regarding Prophet's bed room's relation with sideqa Tahera aeysha(R).

Perhap some people used to peep in their bed room. Or he(P) or ayesha(R) her self used to tell others their bed room's stories in order to prove how much love they have with each other.

You can read about DNA test. Never two people have same genetic code. So it is 100% perfect test to find the crupted act, done by some one.

Bye sokoon

112

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sokoon: *
Dear Inuit,

You can read about DNA test. Never two people have same genetic code. So it is 100% perfect test to find the crupted act, done by some one.

Bye sokoon
[/QUOTE]
For matching we at least need 2 people DNA. We can get the DNA of the new Child; Whose else DNA will we get for matching. How many people would like to volunteer it? It looks funny. It’s the same as when they are verifying Sadam Hussain through his DNA. Without a present record we can’t verify it. anway,

113

Dear inuit,

Assalam mun ale lum,

It is a medical procedure, you have different ways to do it.

1) either wait until the child is born or
2) Test both on which one has suspect.

Then identify whether the DNA of one around the other etc etc .

It is easy, because no two persons have same DNA

Also after millions and trillions of years DNA exists the same way, so when there is complain;test it.

Shias sheiks are also not less in these ahadeez shahadats; but I know they are not stuborn. If some one is able to explain to them they understand. But I found them too much coward now a days. Look at Sajjid Naqvi of shareya council. What can he do , being over there. Just
fooling himself and fooling other shias,who believe in him. What i understood from your way of thinking that you are for sure emami, either Bohri,or Agha khani ,or main stream shia etc ,so I have written to you this. Thanks for your guidance. Bye sokoon

114

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sokoon: *
Dear inuit,

Assalam mun ale lum,

It is a medical procedure, you have different ways to do it.

1) either wait until the child is born or
2) Test both on which one has suspect.

Then identify whether the DNA of one around the other etc etc .

It is easy, because no two persons have same DNA

Also after millions and trillions of years DNA exists the same way, so when there is complain;test it.

[/QUOTE]
If suspects are more than one, how many men will be called to medical center for their DNA test. Isn’t it insulting to ask everybody to go to some testing center for their DNA test. For what just to prove the biological dad of the new born baby.

Now a days I am seeing this kinds of Advertisments in new papers “Find you dad” DNA test.”

What I know Allah has asked us to prove it in a social manner. Marriage – Ristay natay – Bivi-Shohar. All these things are more social rather than some “medical relationship”.

If its proved socially then okay; otherwise its upto Allah for the day of judgment.

Religion is not Mohtaj of any scientific results (this is another debate)

and for same DNA please search on google and do little bit more research. thanks

115

Identical twins have the same DNA
Q: April, some of my friends here have been arguing about a DNA test of identical twins. One says they should be identical;the other says they are different. -T.M.H.,Webster,N.Y.

A: Your first friend wins. Identical twins have identical DNA. They come from the same fertilized egg, which had only one complete set of DNA in the first place. That fertilized egg and its single set of DNA split to form twin embryos-each with its own set of DNA, identical to the other. One small quibble: the DNA sets will be identical, unless one fertilized egg's DNA mutates. Such mutations, however, are normally so tiny that DNA analysis can't detect them.

[Robert J. Huskey, U of Virginia] DNA patterns from four sets of twins-which are identical?

Suppose one identical twin commits a crime. How do you tell which twin did it if the DNA is identical? Well, you don't use DNA analysis since the DNA is the same. You dust for fingerprints. Genes only set the pattern for the fingerprint. The print develops in a placenta environment that differs somewhat for each twin. That, in turn, results in similar but different fingerprints.

(Answered by April Holladay, science correspondent, Apr. 10, 2002

116

The topic is diverted from criteria for leadership of khilafah onto DNA.

By the way in Islam if crime is committed and there is a doubt then throw it out that is rule. It is not acceptable for a person to be punished for crime they did not committ only if they proven to committ crime will they be punished.

Because if crime was committed and criminal was not proven to be guilty then in akhira the criminal if did commit crime then will get his judgement in full payment.

So better for person to take judgement in this life, allah(swT) knows what kind of punishment lies in wait otherwise.

117

Hi!!

Lets not divert our attention from the topic. We would discuss the above in some other thread.

So what we all have discussed, it appears, we as muslims can not reach to a single point to achieve the motive to have khilafat. Different people have different ideas. And again if we try khilafat ul muslameen kid of government another fight would start among pro and against khilafat government. What do you say?
bye sokoon

118

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sokoon: *
Hi!!

Lets not divert our attention from the topic. We would discuss the above in some other thread.

So what we all have discussed, it appears, we as muslims can not reach to a single point to achieve the motive to have khilafat. Different people have different ideas. And again if we try khilafat ul muslameen kid of government another fight would start among pro and against khilafat government. What do you say?
bye sokoon
[/QUOTE]

Sokoon

what you have today is muslim divided and all over the place what is the one thing to unite them if it is not the islamic state then what you goign to use.

This the method and solution from islam and is definetly the best solution without a doubt how can you argue against a united ummah as one state that is just an awesome thought!

You will always get the people who have different intrests for example the people in power now dont want to lose power because it gives them money and connections so they will try everything to stop the ummah uniting.

119

Re: What should be the criteria to be a khalifa of muslim ummah?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sokoon: *
Dear Readers,

Assalam ale kum,

In your opinion what qualities a person should posses to be a khalifa.?

[/QUOTE]

We need somone who can talk his mind against the attrocities without being scared

[QUOTE]

What education the person should have or is qualified for being khalifa of muslim ummah?

[/QUOTE]

i would say he could be from any descipline in life as long as he has a strong committee of muslim scholars to consult to.

[QUOTE]

Would Arabs accept a Pakistani khalifa for muslim ummah as a whole?

[/QUOTE]

I don't see why that should be a question, you should ask yourself would you accept a chinese, thai, african, eurppean khalifa, and if the answer is yes then they would too....

[QUOTE]

I have one to be Khalifa of muslim ummah, let me check over him whether he bears in him criteria; what all muslims are looking in a khalifa to be qualified for that post. If he qualifices, I and my collegues would work on it.

Bye bye Sokoon
[/QUOTE]

The problem here can be, would you be knowledgeable (abt islam) to be given the right to choose a khalifa? My recomendation would be gather a community to choose some good scholars and leave the decision onto them. it would be more acceptable.... i think

120

Re: What should be the criteria to be a khalifa of muslim ummah?

Hi!

^^^^^

Mano na mano pervez musharaf tou khalifa hein come uz come humaray moulk kay. Key khayal hai ap ka.