salam brother you know the afghan "jihad" against the soviets was a phoney jihad, it was banditry of the highest order ...taghoot i.e amreika kay tawan say jihad is none at all.These local folk heros like that clown zaid hamid were pawns in the great game.
it was afghan nationalism and to preserve the tribal culture and most importantly to prevent the land reforms which motivated this resistance ..what "islamic " values were they fighting for ? it can be seen in the barbarity that prevailed in early 90s
Its the superficial arguments like "oh they destroyed our mosques and trampled on Quran" we have to avenge this ! what about mujahideen factions obliterating themselves afterwards? it was all romantic and zealous back in the 80s when we didnt know all the facts now we know taghoot CIA KSA Pak army all sponsered this effort as a global cold war effort."Invasion " of afghansiatn in 1979 was little different than "invasion" of KSA in 1991 it was a peace keeping operation involving soviet troops only in big cities while the muslim afghan army retains control of countryside it was local resistance due to fear of land reforms which started the mujahideen and later caused soviet army to get more involved.Infact soviets had no intention of occupying afghanistan if it remained peaceful it was not like annexation of central asain republic in the 1920s.
What about the real jehad overthrow the corrupt govts of Saudi arabia (openly called a kingship, synonomous for opulance and ostentaious piety what a slap on the face of orthodoxx islam wudnt u agree ? oh but wait I dont want to labelled a ikhwani ) , Iran ( even khomeini after the initial rhetoric followed clasical persian nationalist interests i.e expansion of iranian influence there was incredibly repressive measures taken against all political oppnents which was more like OGPU and STAVKA than any islamic shariah punishments) , Pakistan ( corrupt army which selectively implements islam in their own country yet so enthusiastically supports it abroad ) and Turkey ( for all intents and purposes a secular county atleast that time) no ulema were preaching that why ?
who are the pratical mujahideen ?
fitna is something else brother but standing up against a tyrant is not fitna brother its "command good and forbid evil"
First of all Afghan Jihad is right because a Muslim country was attacked it was compulsory on Muslims to fight for Islam and defeat Russia yes they should not have taken help from USA but main help came from Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and UAE and secondly Jihad of both offensive and defensive is allowed and the 4 Caliphs did what Islam has ordered
^ Really ? a muslim country was "attacked" for the first time in history ?
main help came from UAE/KSA yes it did but with whose blessing ?
Why didnt they fight when USA came in KSA in 1991 ?
Im sorry but this is a "sunday school" version of events, afghan war was another chapter of cold war in which ordinary afghans were merely pawns.
WHat about the "jihad" of saudi arabs against ottoman turks, this time with the blessing of english empire.So please its more complicated than this, not simply a clear cut case of good vs evil.
IRan /KSA/Pakiatsn were all trying with help of China/US arms to get the soviets out so they can exert their own influence in afghanistan.
^ Really ? a muslim country was "attacked" for the first time in history ?
main help came from UAE/KSA yes it did but with whose blessing ?
Why didnt they fight when USA came in KSA in 1991 ?
Im sorry but this is a "sunday school" version of events, afghan war was another chapter of cold war in which ordinary afghans were merely pawns.
WHat about the "jihad" of saudi arabs against ottoman turks, this time with the blessing of english empire.So please its more complicated than this, not simply a clear cut case of good vs evil.
IRan /KSA/Pakiatsn were all trying with help of China/US arms to get the soviets out so they can exert their own influence in afghanistan.
Mr when ever Muslim country is attacked we have to fight against those who attack that that is compulsory on Muslims and Muslims should remain united and not help kafirs against each other that is law of Islam to and Muslims are one countries doesn't matter
so bro think about it with a cool head , pak army (led by famous fasiq and fajirs generals) wanted to get back at the soviets for fanning pushtun and baloch sentiments in 70s so they had already started army afghan groups to fight their pseudo jihad.KSA got a golden chance to spread their ideology, iran tried to do the same albiet with limited success as thery were limited persian/shia afghans.US got a great chance for payback for vietnam.There was no jihad , the million half pak army sat passively, iran and iraq gutted each other in a seperate war, why didnt the arab nations send MAJOR contignents of their armies to fight ? rather than odd mercenaries ? As in their eyes afghan and paki cannon fodder is always available
for them.
and btw you DID not answer my questions
and Ustaada Clinton exposes the reality of this “jeehad” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dqn0bm4E9yw&feature=fvwrel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifZK6SVlQ1Y&feature=fvwrel
these afghani baghairat mercenaries wud do anything for pennies before that they plundered and murdered each other later they started doing that to the soviets with US money.And btw why didnt this “jeehad” start earlier ? when russian empire conquered samarkhand bukhara and other muslim heartlands.Anwar Pasha atleast went to fight the bolsheviks there, where were your saudis and arabs ( including hashimite arabs ) at that time ? back stabbing the ottoman empire
so save me the rhetoric bro it was all realpolitek
No I was not telling you, you asked me that.I was avoiding it !
1-I have not followed current affairs for several years
2-Most local conflicts the current situation is very murky, some clear examples are syria , libya and egypt.However my only problem is its great if these groups overthrew their tyrants but now they should march and overthrow the monarchies of the Gulf, Bahrain KSA Qatar Kuwait.I would oppose any group or govt that is close to the iranian state or KSA
I know you probably like KSA as a devout sunni as they oppose iranian fascist mahdi state.But bro when did 2 wrongs make a right ? I know iran is a police state and hell bent on dominating the gulf but the best way to counter is NOT by perpetuating the monarchies in the gulf.We need another As-Saffah for these monarchists.
No I was not telling you, you asked me that.I was avoiding it !
1-I have not followed current affairs for several years
2-Most local conflicts the current situation is very murky, some clear examples are syria , libya and egypt.However my only problem is its great if these groups overthrew their tyrants but now they should march and overthrow the monarchies of the Gulf, Bahrain KSA Qatar Kuwait.I would oppose any group or govt that is close to the iranian state or KSA
I know you probably like KSA as a devout sunni as they oppose iranian fascist mahdi state.But bro when did 2 wrongs make a right ? I know iran is a police state and hell bent on dominating the gulf but the best way to counter is NOT by perpetuating the monarchies in the gulf.We need another As-Saffah for these monarchists.
Brother to me rulers of both Iran and Saudia are in same category, different roles perhaps. i have no soft corner for Aal e saud FYI.
Ok, so tell me the example of last jihad which you consider as true jihad? i just want to know how practical your views are, there are ahadith that jihad will continue till qiyamat , so there will always be mujahideen doing jihad.
I think certain groups in the Caucauses , chechniya, syed ahmed shaheed barelvi, the mujahideen ( not all mutineers) who fought against british in the Indian uprising of 1857.Bosnia cud have been one but I think it was a bosnian nationalist uprising almost no concern for islam.And definately the uprising against saudis in 1979 in the haram.
I think Khoemeni movement too in the initial stages was a genuine uprising against the shah but khoemini was too much of a politician to stick to their ideals and he quickly betrayed those who backed him and quickly assimilated with the usual power players in iran.we know now that Israel and US unoffically backed iran to keep them fighting for as long as possible saddam and saudis/kuwaitis did the same with iraqis.
Muslim brotherhood struggled for long against nasser could be counted as one of them.
ALthough I know little about it but certain groups in somalia and sudans struggle against ethiopia , kenya can be seen as such.
What do you think is jihad according to islam?. We will discuss on these concepts in a separate thread. Please only post what you believe , dont comment on what others believe.
Also please comment on any real example of jihad in modern times. Need your input on why do you think it is jihad.
Inshallah purpose is to get a defination on which we all agree and that is also supported by our religious text.
Isn't jihad of the nafs the one which is important in all times.
Being ethical is a jihad today , regardless of whether ur a student or an empployee ,employer or a home maker.
What do you think is jihad according to islam?. We will discuss on these concepts in a separate thread. Please only post what you believe , dont comment on what others believe.
Also please comment on any real example of jihad in modern times. Need your input on why do you think it is jihad.
Inshallah purpose is to get a defination on which we all agree and that is also supported by our religious text.
Isn't jihad of the nafs the one which is important in all times.
Being ethical is a jihad today , regardless of whether ur a student or an employee ,employer or a home maker.
I am not talking about the leadership or who led the war and what they wanted rule of Islam is clear when a Muslim land is attacked all Muslims have to fight against the attacked and either win the war or die fighting the rule is clear and simple
^ yaar this is not the time or place for this, why ! Gawd why do u guys always bring this up in these discussions?
op asked what jihad was in modern times, I know ppl who struggle to earn halal money.For them that is jihad . specially when they could easily do jobs like working in bars etc ,earning money not caring how its earned.
I am not talking about the leadership or who led the war and what they wanted rule of Islam is clear when a Muslim land is attacked all Muslims have to fight against the attacked and either win the war or die fighting the rule is clear and simple
I know the rule sir but, this banditry was not "jeehad" this was another chapter of the cold war