What is the solution of Karachi violence

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: What is the solution of Karachi violence

its very depressing. and there is no solution thats practical. the only solution would be the elimination of guns, the banning of parties with an explicit/implicit sectarian agenda, and mandated representation of all ethnicities in every party. but thats pie in the sky.

there is no difference between paries such as MQM and ANP-Karachi and KKK. Im sure the 'final solution' for such parties would be gas chambers for the 'other'.

as it is mqm is in the middle of a swing to the right... next elections they'll be allied with PML-N.

Credit where credit is due... PPP/PML.. most of all MMA/JI should get massive credit for having support bases with only occasional ethnocentrism.

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Re: What is the solution of Karachi violence

Depressing it is.

As the current military operation has show, it only fuels the insurgency. There is no peace on either side. Arms do keep coming from one source or another and its very simple to manipulate the system to get what the want.

For an operation to happen in Karachi, For one there is size of Karachi and matched by 20million plus inhabitants-you will not be able to go in every nook and cranny to flush out the arms depots and terrorists. Very difficult.

The political parties combined with the security establishment complement one another and they don't function one without the other. How can one break this stalemate ?

The security establishment has shown some great resolve during peak times of suicide bombing, but if you put that aside and focus on the petty gangs on every corner carrying out their operations, it is challenging to bring them to the court of law and prosecution. It seems more of a guerrilla style campaign.

How will one go about capturing the criminal heads of the parties? Either they go to exile or some are killed because they are of no use. It happens.

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Re: What is the solution of Karachi violence

The biggest mistake people make is when they think it is a fight between Phatans and Muhajirs. This is the main reason people are unable to find a solution to the violence in Karachi.

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Re: What is the solution of Karachi violence

^I would say MQM are opportunists, they need an excuse to do some pathan bashing (in light of all the drone and waziristan operation going on)-and that most of the militancy come from the tribal areas and Karachi having a large majority of pashtuns.

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Re: What is the solution of Karachi violence

Please read and ponder: I think problem of Karachi is similar to problem of colonised people fighting for their rights. Give Karachi its due right, right that every independent community in the world deserves, and violence would be over. Due rights are:

Give Karachi money with respect to population as Karachi gets money for less than 8 million people and expect to take care of 20 million people.

Give Karachi fair access to own created resources. Federal as well as provincial government cannot do that they take away created resources (taxes and other revenues) from Karachi and do not give them back much in return, spending those resources using one excuse or another on people outside Karachi. This starts feeling of hate in Karachi when they feel that Karachi is getting exploited by those who are not from Karachi but are living on taxes generated in Karachi, while Karachi starves due to lack of resources.

[Note: Government health budget, government educational budget, and government budget for amenities in Karachi are least per head compared to any city of Pakistan ... even when population of Karachi is taken as 80 million. Exploitation is such that sadly even electricity sold to Karachi is at rate much higher than rest of Pakistan. Many areas of Karachi had no water or sewerage system and there were no adequate transport facilities. Government did not spend much on even road infrastructure, schools, or recreational facility. Unfortunately, all this happening to city that contributes a large portion of taxes that Pakistan collects].

Give Karachi (especially Muhajirs) enough federal and provincial Jobs what they deserve (and that also after making sure that people getting jobs are from Karachi and not those who take up Karachi domicile to deprive people of Karachi). For instance, population of Karachi + Hyderabad + Sukker together has 7.6 percent quota on federal jobs and 40 percent quote on provincial jobs, when population of Karachi alone is around 12 percent of Pakistan and almost 50 percent of Sindh. Unfortunately, even that 7.6 percent of federal jobs and 40 percent of provincial jobs are not given to these people. Even job quota what Karachi gets; exploiters from Pakhtunkhwa and Punjab takes share from it by obtaining illegal domicile of Karachi and later using connections (nepotism, political connections, racial connections, provincial connections, etc) to get job on quota of Karachi. On the other hand, only mean of earning for Karachiets (especially Muhajirs) is jobs as there are no agricultural workers in Karachi nor such opportunities, that means more jobs is required by Karachiets than by others in Pakistan. [Note: In comparison, resident of Lahore can compete for around 50 percent of Federal jobs and 100 percent of Punjab provincial jobs (Punjab provincial jobs itself is more than twice of Sindh], plus on top of that, many from Lahore (as well as other part of Punjab) take up illegal domicile of other provinces and use their connections in government to get jobs allocated to other provinces, especially jobs allocated to Karachi and Baluchistan. Thus, grudges get develops amongst karachiets (as well as Baluchistan) that result in hates and killing.

Karachi should be given control of their own life, such as policing and administration should be by Karachiets, something that is not there since long and that creates hate amongst Karachiets. For instance, most in police and government administrative jobs in Karachi are filled by people of Punjab and Pakhtun and thus people of Karachi live as if they are living under occupation of Punjab and pakhtuns. That is hateful thing and results in hate that causes frustration and killing of Pakhtuns and Punjabis in Karachi. Actually, this problem was epidemic before MQM. In Karachi, if a person goes to police, court, customs, or any department in civil administration, what they use to encounter was almost all employed were Punjabis and some Pakhtuns but negligible Muhajirs ... something that got changed a bit though not enough, after MQM.

Note: Policing and administration by those who are not majority amongst locals happens only in areas or countries that are under occupation, or where racists and apartheid rule. For instance, one may find such in Israel and in South Africa when SA was under White rule. Even in England where I live, if any locality has large percentage of Asian/Black population, government tries to give them policing and administration by Asian/black in that area. But in Karachi where most are Muhajirs, it is funny that policing and administration are mostly in the hand of non-Muhajirs ... though that has changed a bit after MQM.

Whatever I mentioned above, if sorted out, could solve problem of Karachi a lot.

[Actually, whatever I mentioned above, especially policing, administration and taking of allocated quota jobs on fake domicile by people of Punjab is happening in Baluchistan too, and that is causing lot of problem in Baluchistan, where Baluchs are killing Punjabis].

Pakistan has wide spread racialism and provincialism by people of certain provinces. Anyhow, most funny thing is that, when they are told to stop their provincialism and racialism and give right to others, same people start crying and start blaming those who want such thing to stop, calling them racist, etc.

For instance, an example out of many: Most in Pakistan Navy are from Punjab and Pakhtunkhwa, some are Muhajirs too. Most surprising is that, neither Punjab nor Pakhtunkhwa has Sea. On the other hand, Sindhis, Makranis, and Balochs are almost nonexistent in Pakistan Navy when it should be they who deserve to be in Pakistan navy most, as many are fishermen and have experience of sea from their childhood more than any in Pakistan. Anyhow, if Sindhis, Makranis, and Baluch start agitation on this basis, asking for jobs in Navy because they deserve such job most, they would be called racist by these people (who themselves are racist).

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Re: What is the solution of Karachi violence

^^^
I fail to understand your arguments.
1) Bottom line is that you mean to say that because people in karachi do not get enough resources therefore they kill each other.
2) you are arguing that Karachi should be given more independence from province and country and the federal and provincial powers should be transferred to the city management to stop them from killing each other.
3) Some how a system in Karachi should be evolved to discriminate between mohajir and non mohajir population where jobs should be given to mohajirs to encourage citizens of Karachi to live more peacefully in their own city.

Please read the topic again and give suggestions to improve the violence situation in Karachi where all diversified groups can live more peacefully in city and contribute more to the prosperity of their own city in particular, and to the country in general..

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Re: What is the solution of Karachi violence

^^^
I fail to understand your arguments.
1) Bottom line is that you mean to say that because people in karachi do not get enough resources therefore they kill each other.
2) you are arguing that Karachi should be given more independence from province and country and the federal and provincial powers should be transferred to the city management to stop them from killing each other.
3) Some how a system in Karachi should be evolved to discriminate between mohajir and non mohajir population where jobs should be given to mohajirs to encourage citizens of Karachi to live more peacefully in their own city. Can misuse of domiciles by certain individuals be accepted as a valid reason to justify killings..???

Please read the topic again and give suggestions to improve the violence situation in Karachi where all diversified groups can live more peacefully in city and contribute more to the prosperity of their own city in particular, and to the country in general..

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Re: What is the solution of Karachi violence

^^^
Dear brother, I did read the topic and understand what topic is all about. For me, it does not matter if Karachi becomes part of Punjab (according to wishes of some) as long as people in Karachi also gets same right as others in Punjab (that is unacceptable to many).

Anyhow, that is not the case nor it could happen, so I am looking at present day situation, something if I do not do than I would be dishonest. I pointed out the reasons of unrest in Karachi, and gave appropriate solutions. It is different matter if you could not understand the arguments (or do not want to understand the argument).

Actually, the reasons and solution I gave is not only cause of unrest in Karachi but it is cause of unrest in Baluchistan as well as Interior Sindh. Karachi is just on spotlight because people who wants to colonise Karachi are reluctant to accept the cause, reluctant to give space to others, and reluctant to give up their coloniser status. 

Unfortunately, the way things are moving in Pakistan, where a group of people keep insisting on not giving space to others in Pakistan so that all can run their affairs and live peacefully within the boundary of Pakistan, I would not be surprised if suppressed people would start questioning unity of Pakistan, something that happened in Bengal, and is already happening in Baluchistan and interior Sindh. This situation cannot be stopped by trying to make areas colony using settlers (or in other word, colonisers), but it can be stopped by understanding grievances of people in the area and giving them appropriate space.

Migration and Myth: Pakistan is federation of 4 semi-independent provinces. Each province has its own government. Person having domicile of one province cannot take up government jobs in other province nor could study in government institutions of other province. Even federal jobs are divided amongst provinces (on basis of quota) and anyone who gets into federal job represents quota of their province in federation (though expected to serve all equally).

Further, to say that migration to Karachi (actually migration to Sindh, Punjab, Sarhad and Baluchistan) after partition from India and inter-provincial economical migration is same is completely ridiculous. Migration after partition was two ways traffic, an exchange of population. Large number of people from Sindh and Punjab (some from Sarhad) migrated to India and similarly large number of people from India migrated to Sindh and Punjab. Today, more Sindhis who migrated from Sindh over time live in India then Muhajirs from India live in Sindh. Actually even amongst Muhajirs there are many who were originally from Sindh, people who migrated to India over centuries, and later after partition returned back to Sindh.

On the other hand, no Sindhi migrated in numbers to Sarhad, Punjab, or Baluchistan, that one can say that there is exchange of population between Sindh and other provinces within Pakistan. Inter-provincial economical migration within Pakistan is one-way traffic, without justification.

Situation today is that Muhajirs in Karachi consider Karachi as their home and have their back facing wall, thus would stay in Karachi, would fight till death and would not mind getting buried in Karachi, as they have no place to go nor look towards any other place. They are not like those who send their earnings from Karachi to places outside Karachi (Places economical migrant call their ‘watan’), visit their watan outside Karachi to marry, regularly visit their watan outside Karachi on holidays, make their houses of retirement in their watan outside Karachi, and when die send their bodies to their watan outside Karachi for burial. Many even do not want their kids to get born or raised in Karachi.

Anyhow, even if no Sindhi migrated to places within Pakistan outside Sindh, people from other provinces are welcome if they live in Sindh as Muhajirs working to assimilate themselves with Sindhis, Keep all their financial as well as emotional interest in Sindh, severe all ties with place of their origin (watan) outside Sindh, show their loyalty to Sindh and resident of Sindh, work for interest of Sindh (obviously within Pakistan), and consider themselves same as Sindhis ... something these economical migrant are not willing to do.

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Re: What is the solution of Karachi violence

Sa1eem bhai,

  1. If Muhajirs considered themselves Sindhis, they won't insist on calling themselves Muhajirs.
  2. How would you feel if western/developed countries insisted on not welcoming those from Pakistan who do not sever all ties with Pakistan? A Pakistani should be free to work in Karachi (or any other city for that matter) and keep ties with 'watan'.

Migration to Karachi is 'one-way' traffic mostly because most of the smaller cities in Sindh are deprived of development with most of the Provincial resources spent only on Karachi. Many cities in Punjab, for example, have similar level of development resulting in little migration within these cities. I personally know a lot of people who migrated from Hyderabad (a beautiful city turning into wasteland) to Karachi.

Solution to Karachi violence is tough gun control. With the kind of hatred spewed by ANP and MQM these days, it would be difficult to control emotions, sector incharges, jiyalas and salars when they have the kind of arms that they do. A longer term solution is efficient/effective and impartial judicial system (police + judiciary). That remains a distant dream!

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Re: What is the solution of Karachi violence

Many karachites also get illegal domicile of other provinces.

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Re: What is the solution of Karachi violence

Meray bahi, Muhajirs use to call themselves ONLY Pakistani but realised that there is no such thing as Pakistani, and most in Pakistan gave them various degrading names. If there was such thing as Pakistan then ‘so called Pakistnis’ would not have been rotting in camps of East Pakistan in the name of being Pakistani and people in West Pakistan would not have called them Biharis, etc (even though most are not necessarily Biharis, Bengalis use to call all non-bengalis as Biharis. Anyhow, since in West Pakistan it is difficult to call them Pakistanis so name given to them is Biharis too).

Now coming to migrants calling themselves Muhajirs in Sindh is long story. When Muhajirs use to call themselves ONLY Pakistanis and use to consider themselves as (self proclaimed) flag bearer of Pakistan, they were a laughing stock for all. Sindhis use to consider them traitors and agents of Punjab in Sindh. Many Sindhis in private used to even tell Muhajirs that why they look towards Punjab and not Sindh, as their future is in Sindh where all their stakes are. Unfortunately, first generation and to extend second generation of Muhajirs never understood that. Second and third generation did get the message that they were first Sindhis and second Pakistanis. Fiasco of East Pakistan also played a role in bringing the message loud and clear. They saw stupids in Bangla-Desh who instead of showing their loyalty with land where they were living (Bengal) and siding with Bengalis, sided with Pakistan and went to camps as Pakistanis to rot there unacceptable by anyone, as entity Pakistan look towards, never existed, because Pakistan was name of federation where provinces exists and Pakistan was just a name on paper.

Thus, Muhajirs realised that when they migrated to Sindh, they did not become Pakistani but became Sindhi and just because Sindh is part of federation and as long as Sindh stays in federation, they are Pakistani. So, mental assimilation started. They had to look for a name for themselves as tribe to come out of being ONLY Pakistani and to get recognised as tribe (Qaum) in Sindhi, as without being tribe with name, they knew they would stick with being ONLY Pakistani and would stay a joke without value in Pakistani society.

It was necessary, as in all provinces of Pakistan we have tribes with different names (tribes in Pakistani language call themselves ‘Qaum’). For instance, we have Afridis, Khataks, MuhammadZais, Khalils, YusufZias ... etc in Pakhtunkhwa. We have Arains, Butts, Chaudharis, Janjuas, Awans, Gujjars, Maliks, Quraishies ... etc in Punjab. We have Marris, Bugtis, Mengals, Lagharis, Bezenjos, Jamalis, Makranis ... etc in Baluchistan. And we have Chandios, Lasharis, Chachars, Soomros, Khoros, Talpurs, Memons ... etc in Sindh. Thus these migrants gave themselves a name to their Sindhi tribe that was Muhajirs and call that a ‘Qaum’ in Sindh (so no big deal). So, look at Muhajirs as one of the tribe (Qaum) of Sindh and that is all.

    Today, MQM wants to unite all ‘Qaums’ of Pakistan under one flag, a big job but not so easy, as no Qaum in Pakistan wants to lose their  identity as separate ‘Qaum’ from others. Especially, people in Punjab are bounded by this Qaumiyat and even give votes to a person from their Qaum, whatever the character of the person.

[quote]
Migration to Karachi is 'one-way' traffic mostly because most of the smaller cities in Sindh are deprived of development with most of the Provincial resources spent only on Karachi. Many cities in Punjab, for example, have similar level of development resulting in little migration within these cities. I personally know a lot of people who migrated from Hyderabad (a beautiful city turning into wasteland) to Karachi.
[/quote]
You are wrong again. It is not true that provincial resources are mostly spent on Karachi; rather it is other way round. Karachi gets least from provincial resources. Most development in Karachi is due to private capital or capital raised by Karachi government locally, using local resources. Fact is that, other than what Karachi gives to local government, huge resource of Karachi is getting transferred by federal and provincial governments to other provinces and to interior Sindh.

Most schools, colleges, universities, and hospitals in Karachi are privately owned. Even though Karachi is big city and has lot of transport problem, government has done little about it (I think, first time in history of Karachi, MQM tried to do something to tackle transport problem in Karachi, though lot more is required). Even though Karachi gives major portion of Pakistani taxes, Karachi has water problem, sewerage problem, electricity problem, and so on ... So question arises, where that taxes are going when problem of taxpayers are not getting solved?.

[quote]
Solution to Karachi violence is tough gun control. With the kind of hatred spewed by ANP and MQM these days, it would be difficult to control emotions, sector incharges, jiyalas and salars when they have the kind of arms that they do. A longer term solution is efficient/effective and impartial judicial system (police + judiciary). That remains a distant dream!
[/quote]
There could be no gun control in Karachi if there would be no gun control all over Pakistan. Anyhow, control on guns or no control on guns, hatred would continue if people would not realise their limits of colonisation. Much more than this hatred is there against Punjabis and Pakhtuns in Interior Sindh and Baluchistan. Spewing of hatred could only get sorted out if certain groups of Pakistanis do not try to make other groups their colony. Anyhow, if things do not get sorted out with wisdom then one day Karachi would go in the footstep of interior Sindh and Baluchistan, and then we would see lot of bloodshed plus disintegration of Pakistan too, something for which many world powers are interested in.

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Re: What is the solution of Karachi violence

You are right, that could be happening. Anyhow, till now I do not think that any city in Pakistan has reached situation where policing and administration of that city is in the hands of people who are not recognised as local by people of that city, except Karachi.

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Re: What is the solution of Karachi violence

Saleem Bhai... Bhens ke agge been bajane ka koi faida nahi... thats why we are facing a lot of problems..
being as a Punjabi who spend few years in karachi I understand your feelings.. but its little hard to digest for Badhe Bhaijan sahibs.. Im totaly agreed with points u mentioned in your posts HOW IT ALL START and how its wrost now!!

the easy answer is that if we are very proud in FOUR then accept the FIFTH one too.. yeah big deal for other fours, isnt!

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Re: What is the solution of Karachi violence

Sa1eem, you are just repeating MQM rhetoric and cannot back anything you say. Insist on keeping a 'distinct' identity but ask others to 'assimilate' in Karachi and sever ties with their 'watan'? Hypocrisy?

Karachi's city budget is 4 times that of Lahore. Go figure.