[quote]
Originally posted by FlameZz:
**PA can you quote the Exact Ayah from Quran, with which this Hadith is contradicting ????
because as you have said, this Hadith is contradictory..
**
[/quote]
FlameZz, let me restate.. I reject this particular hadith because it's loony.
I reject all other hadiths that are contrary to the message of the Qur'an. Contrary also includes anything that tries to 'add' or 'modif' the religion in any sense at all.
There is No Spoon
[quote]
Originally posted by Andhra:
......
Once again you are giving 'Interpretations' whereas the Hadith is quite clear.
Mind you it is not Non-Muslims who say Kotran and Hadith are inviolable, unalterable, it is Muslims themselves.
.......
[/quote]
Mind you, no one has ever said (I'm not gonna include all guppies here) this about Hadith... but every Muslim beleives it about Quran that it will not be changed/modified/altered.....
"inviolable" ??? what do you mean by that? almost every person violates the Quran/Hadith in one way or the other, what exactly did you want to say here?
Whether you are doing your research on Islam "objectively" or only for criticizing, at least you'll get to know about Islam and we don't have responsibility of conveying its message to you.
May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right
Akif, you said..
You work in a company. You will be given guidelines on how to conduct yourself in meetings. Noone will fire you for yawning in a meeting (though its not unthinkable), but people will definitely frown upon it. They will dislike it.
On the other hand, sneezing will draw a ‘bless you’ from everyone in the room.
Now Im sure this concept makes perfect sense to you. But when the same concept is cited in Islamic scriptures, it whisks past your head. <<
I am glad to see you are not disputing the authenticity of the Hadith. It is from an Islamic WEb Site by the way.
The Hadith doesn’t say, ‘If somebody sneezes say Bless Him or something similar’
It says, I give the quote..
Allah likes sneezing, and he hates yawning. So if one of you sneezes, and praises Allah, then it is duty upon anyone that hears him to say (Shaikh Albani said in his footnotes to Saheeh Al-Kalim At-Tayyib that is evidence that any one that hears the sneezing persom say “Al-hamdu lil-lah” must reply. The belief that if one person says it the rest do not have to is a misconception) Yarhamuka 'allahu: Which means May Allah have mercy on you. As for Yawning, it is of the shaytan, so if one of you is going to yawn, let him hold it back as much as possible, because if one of you yawns, shaytans laughs at him". (Reported by Al-Bukhari, and is #161 in the Authentic of Good Saying)<<
It also says not one, but all Muslims around the guy who sneezed should say ‘Bless You’ !!
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Now I am not responsible for the translators. If believing that God loves people who sneeze is part of your Religion, I have no problem with it
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However don’t say that I am twisting anything out of context.
You see there is a difference between saying
‘God says when somebody sneezes say ‘Bless You’’
and saying
‘God loves people who sneeze’!!
No wonder Pakistaniabroad thinks this Hadith is loony.
Moderators and administrators
I wonder why my message was edited.. can you give me a valid reason ???
Dont think "you can" know "you can"
.::. ¢¼ ﷲ ﻼﺃ ﷲﺃ ﻶ ¢¼ .::.
Here is my Idealogy about yawning..
when ever you are in some executeive meeting, or in high status meeting, or on a date, or on some party, yawning is not a good etiquatte. moreover it gives the other person an idea that, you are not concentrating or listening to that peron.
So when a person is standing in Prayer infront of Almighty LORd, who is the utmost master of the world, would you think of yawning, and give him the idea that you are not attentive??? Because yawning is sign of lazyness and idleness. Thats why it not a good thind to do in PRayer.
And one should be attentive in the bried time of prayer which is in most cases not more than 10 minutes..
These little things are just between your god and you. it still is not a big issue that whether our prayer breaks up by yawning and sneazing...
God bless all of us, and guide us ...
Dont think "you can" know "you can"
.::. ¢¼ ﷲ ﻼﺃ ﷲﺃ ﻶ ¢¼ .::.
k:
[quote]
Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad:
** FlameZz, let me restate.. I reject this particular hadith because it's loony.
I reject all other hadiths that are contrary to the message of the Qur'an. Contrary also includes anything that tries to 'add' or 'modif' the religion in any sense at all.
**
[/quote]
Let me restate my question again, show me the Quranic verse with which this hadith is contradicting, or adding or negating ????
and my dear friend, no human on earth is wise enough to understand the QURAN without the propper explantion and practical implentation which Prophet Muhammad (SAW) did..
Can you negate that ISLAM is not what Prophet Muhammad (SAW) told and taught the Muslims?? if yes then which ISLAM are you talkin about ????????
Dont think "you can" know "you can"
.::. ¢¼ ﷲ ﻼﺃ ﷲﺃ ﻶ ¢¼ .::.
[quote]
Originally posted by FactFinder:
** When sneezing, a person takes out unwanted "irritants or a foreign objects" as PakistaniAbroad has written. The suggestion from Sunnah is to praise Allah for relieving the person of the irritant or foreign object. Yawning is disliked as it is something that can be avoided publicly. It has no physical attributes, except a person's indicating that he/she is tired or bored.
**
[/quote]
FF-
So we praise Allah (swt) for relieving us of the foreign object causing the sneeze. What about the yawn, it is a reflex.
I understand asking for Allah's forgiveness when praying as any one with even a pea brain will realize that yawning is rude and one must excuse himself from his present company. What about yawning not in prayer, while in class ? Does the Yawner, try to stifle the yawn, cover the mouth with his hand, and say "excuse me" to the people around him and then proceed to ask Allah for his forgiveness or what?
I've often seen muslims blurt out "Astaghfirullah" after yawning but missing out on the conventional etiquette like saying "excuse me".
So I'm wondering why in fact we only ask for Allah's forgiveness when there are others around us whom we should follow up with some etiquette.
So I’m wondering why in fact we only ask for Allah’s forgiveness when there are others around us whom we should follow up with some etiquette<<
Listen I was the one who started this topic and I reall didn’t expect any Religion to take Yawning and sneezing so seiuosly
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But the I found a Hadith about it!!
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SO as an infidel HIndu what I say is Yawn and Sneeze to your herat’s content.
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Ofcourse you gotta say excuse me or something. Bu tI don’t see how it is really the business of my Religion. Religion should stick to GOd!!
[quote]
Originally posted by FlameZz:
Let me restate my question again, show me the Quranic verse with which this hadith is contradicting, or adding or negating ????
[/quote]
Qur'an doesn't declare bodily functions as being from Allah or Satan. No one has the authority to add to a religion that was completed.
[al-Ma'idah 5:3].... This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion;....
PakistaniAbroad: This verse is considered to be among the very last ones revealed to the Prophet.
A perfect religion needs no modifications. Period.
[quote]
and my dear friend, no human on earth is wise enough to understand the QURAN without the propper explantion and practical implentation which Prophet Muhammad (SAW) did..
[/quote]
really?? I wonder if you read this?
Sad 38:29 a Book We have revealed to you abounding in good that they may ponder over its verses, and that those endowed with understanding may be mindful.
PakistaniAbroad: I think Allah wouldn't ask us to ponder on His verses if we couldn't understand it. I think He wants us to study His Book and not just wrap it up and respect it from a distance.
[quote]
Can you negate that ISLAM is not what Prophet Muhammad (SAW) told and taught the Muslims?? if yes then which ISLAM are you talkin about ????????
[/quote]
FlameZz my brother, how can you be so sure that what Bukahri Inc. compiled is actually what the Prophet taught? a period of over 200 years, extremely dubious political circumstances, religious rifts and no documentary proof are sufficient to cast doubts on the six compilations.
The Prophet wasn't supposed to add/change/delete/modify the message from Allah.
[Yunus 10:15] And when Our clear communications are recited to them, those who hope not for Our meeting say: Bring a Quran other than this or change it. Say: It does not beseem me that I should change it of myself; I follow naught but what is revealed to me; surely I fear, if I disobey my Lord, the punishment of a mighty day
There is No Spoon
See, Andhra I'll explain something to you here. I've heard this from a knowledgable person so, I'll regurgitate what he said. I, however, have little to add to his comments since, my knowledge of Islam is not as strong as it should be.
Islam is not a religion, it is a Deen which means it's a whole code of life. We do have several checkpoints in the way we conduct ourselves and I think they are quite logical. Akif has explained the reasoning behind yawning/sneezing thing very well. This is what makes Islam different from other religions. You said that in Hinduism, you'd want your religion to stick to your God. Well, it's different in Islam.
Allah and His unity is of course the focus of Islam. However, Allah has said that he will forgive Haqooqullah (Allah's rights) but he will not forgive HaqooqulIbbad (People's rights). So, you get the idea, I hope?
I just wanted to add my two cents despite the fact that I'm as critical of your intentions as ever. For Muslim brothers, if I have made any mistakes in my post, please forgive me. They were unintended.
Islam is not a religion, it is a Deen which means it’s a whole code of life. We do have several checkpoints in the way we conduct ourselves and I think they are quite logical. <<
I am aware of the ‘Deen’ sambralian. I am a Desi!!
What I was pointing out was that your ‘Deen’ is telling you in the form of Hadith #161 by Al-Bukhari that your God likes sneezing and hates Yawning.
Mind you the Hadith, atleast in translation doesn’t limit to saying you should say ‘Bless YOu’ or something when somebody sneezes.
It clearly says ‘Allah Like Sneezing’!!
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Now Pakistaniabroad has taken an exit on the Religious highway and said the whole Hadith concept is silly and Koran is the only authority.
To me that sounds a logical approach.
What do YOU have to say about this Hadith?
You said that in Hinduism, you’d want your religion to stick to your God. Well, it’s different in Islam.<<
Yes. I don’t think Hindu GOds take sneezing seriously
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Allah has said that he will forgive Haqooqullah (Allah’s rights) but he will not forgive HaqooqulIbbad (People’s rights). So, you get the idea, I hope?<<
I didn’t get this one. Does this mean you can transgress God’s rights but not peoples or vice versa?
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Lastly I am aware you are critical of my intentions. However my intentions are not the issue here.
The issue here is sneezing, yawning and Hadiths !!
Unlike PA, I believe that Hadith are for our guidance and need to be looked at such. Unfortunately some Ahadith are weak or have proven to be weak because they contradict the Quran at which point a "Hadith" carries no significance. About that particular Hadith, I've never heard it before, and I don't have the time and the energy to go research it. Plus, I wouldn't know ehere to start.
"Yes. I don't think Hindu GOds take sneezing seriously"
Hindus gods don't take much of anything seriosuly. Heck why would you, when you're a giant-sized monkey-man (any deja-vu there) who can fly with people riding your back?
"I didn't get this one. Does this mean you can transgress God's rights but not peoples or vice versa? "
Yes, that's what it means. Not that it gives any Muslim the right to just disobey Allah.
But is it just supposed to serve as a reminder of the importance of being kind to fellow beings.
The underlying issue is your amazing patience towards discussing a topic repeatedly in which you have absolutely no interest. If you hadn't driven me to utter hatred of smilies, I would have put one here just for you.
The underlying issue is your amazing patience towards discussing a topic repeatedly in which you have absolutely no interest. <<
Nah.. Nah.. Don’t get me wrong. I AM interested in these topics because, I found in my Personal conversations with some Muslims that some(Not all) have this smug attitude of finding out a heck of a religion that is really logical.
Yes, that’s what they claim it to be!!
You see. Hindus as a community don’t believe in justifying their own religion or crticizing others.
If you go through all my posts , you will never once find me criticizing you for Believing in a GOd who Loves people who sneeze!!
I mean if that’s what you believe in go ahead, I will even supply black peppers!!
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Only thing is, since by your own admission your religion is a ‘Deen’ that lays down a code of life from birth to death and covers all aspects of life, explain this little sneezing part!!
The only contribution you seem to have made is that you admitted you don’t know too much about Hadiths!!
As for your bit about Hindu Gods not taking anything seriously, I respectfully suggest let’s leave HIndu GOds for a separate thread.
As I told you already, they are not known to pass fatwas on sneezing!!
Look if you don't want to critisize other religions, then why do I have to justify my religion to you?
You see you keep asking different questions. First you have a problem with the Hadith, which I tried to answer. You were fine with the sneezing/yawning part then, it was just the Hadith that you found absurd.
Presently, you dump the Hadith debate, and want me to justify why sneezing is good and yawning is bad?
Now hand over my black peppers please, I feel like sneezing and then crying over your shallowness.
As we move into the 21st century yawning and sneezing, the rest of the world wonders what are these desis upto....
As we move into the 21st century yawning and sneezing, the rest of the world wonders what are these desis upto…<<
Don’t include me Old Lahori bhai. I am a Hindu and If somebody gives me the same kinda rulings about sneezing and yawning,
saying God loves sneezing and hates Yawning,
here’s what I will do,
I will give a big Yawn and sneeze at them !!
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Andhra,
Would you allow me to quote something say ... from the Upanishads, Gita or Laws of Manu & ask a question?! If yes, then would you also let me redicule it if I am not satisfied with the answer?
Trust me I don't find it very intellegent to say a prayer to a god that the guy two streets down from me carved out of wood. But if it rocks your boat, fine n' dandy! :)
Trust me I don't find it very intellegent to say a prayer to a god that the guy two streets down from me carved out of wood. But if it rocks your boat, fine n' dandy! <<
The beauty of Hinduism is that it is equally fine and dandy with both idolators and non-idolators, believers and atheists, dunce and scholars!!
While it makes the religion more diffused and confusing, in my humble opinion, it makes it more civilised!!
But does Hinduism allow you to redicule other religions?
If it does, then please show me your proof! And if you can't then in my eyes you are not even a Hindu, let alone a Brahmin.
Ahmedjee,
Ofcourse Hinduism doesn't allow me to make fun of other religions.
But you know, it is hard to keep a staright face about this Hadith.
Even then if I get carried away I apologise, but as far as I could see, no body has come up with a logical answer to defend Hadith #161.