[QUOTE]
It seems that mullah does think that he knows it all other wise he shloudn't accept the invitation. that is even more dangrous
[/QUOTE]
SHER this iz the first time ever iam agreeing wid u on some topic.......
infact wat u say iz really true....and its the MULLAH's mentality which has actually distorted and destryoed islam.......
i hope i dont agree wid u again (lol)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by HILAL K: *
SHER this iz the first time ever iam agreeing wid u on some topic.......
infact wat u say iz really true....and its the MULLAH's mentality which has actually distorted and destryoed islam.......
i hope i dont agree wid u again (lol)
[/QUOTE]
Mate... after all you are not a wanker.... atleast you can use reason.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by HILAL K: *
SHER this iz the first time ever iam agreeing wid u on some topic.......
infact wat u say iz really true....and its the MULLAH's mentality which has actually distorted and destryoed islam.......
i hope i dont agree wid u again (lol)
[/QUOTE]
I thei is gonna be hard for you to agree,, tell me if you do.
How many angels were talking to Mary? When the Qur'an speaks about the announciation of the birth of Jesus to the virgin Mary, Sura 3:42,45 speaks about (several) angels while it is only one in Sura 19:17-21.
By the way, what language is it in the bottom line in your post above?
dude (sher) the language i used is called URDU since this website iz for pakistanis we presume anyone using it can also speak urdu :biggthumb
HILAL K
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by HILAL K: *
dude (sher) the language i used is called URDU since this website iz for pakistanis we presume anyone using it can also speak urdu :biggthumb
HILAL K
[/QUOTE]
Well,, I don't know the language.... any way you haven't commoent on the Verses.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *
How many angels were talking to Mary? When the Qur'an speaks about the announciation of the birth of Jesus to the virgin Mary, Sura 3:42,45 speaks about (several) angels while it is only one in Sura 19:17-21.
By the way, what language is it in the bottom line in your post above?
[/QUOTE]
I would really be grateful if the brother let us know which religion doesn he follows or believes in becuase that would put me in a better place to talk to you. Please do let me know.
Now coming back to the main topic:
Actually, the author's unfamiliarity with the Arabic language, its grammar and usage, is one of the main reasons for his objection. Indeed, one of the major problems with the Bible as it stands today as so graciously demonstrated by him for us in this example, is that our current Bibles force us to study ancient Hebrew and Aramaic scriptures through Greek and Latin glasses as seen by people who are neither Jews, Greeks, nor Romans. Such practices (as demonstrated in the book "What Did Jesus Really Say?"), have seriously handicapped any attempts to faithfully translate the original author's intended meanings. This problem, all thanks be to the Almighty, has been completely avoided in the Qur'an, since it has remained from the time of its inspiration to the present day in the same language it was originally revealed in, the language has remained a living language from that day to this, and the book itself has always been in the hands of the people and not "the elite."
The foremost miracle of the Qur'an is in its text. The text of the Arabic language. You can not translate a miracle no matter how you may try. The Arabic language can not be compared to any other language in its intricate complexity, diversity of form, richness of meaning, brevity of parlance, beauty of construct and power of delivery. To give an example of this let us look at the most basic of measures, that of dictionaries:
A fairly comprehensive and authoritative reference on the English language would be the "Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary" tenth edition, in 1500 pages. On the other hand, a common Arabic dictionary is "Lisan Al-Arab" in 18 volumes, each averaging about 650 pages, or about 11700 pages in all. In other words, even if we were to disregard all of the other aspects of the Arabic language, such as its grammar, we would still be faced with a language which is about eight times as complex as the English language. It is not at all uncommon in the Arabic language to find over one hundred words that refer to the same entity, each one of them giving a slightly different detailed description than all of the others. This has resulted in a language which can translate complete English sentences into only one Arabic word. [If the brother who possed this question knows Urdu/Hindi I would like to give some more examples of the limitations of the translation]
But the Arabic language is not simply a list of words. Far from it, it is a very complex collection of literary sciences which have been developed, refined, and fine-tuned for generations and millennia beyond counting. The end result of this is a group of literary sciences which literally have no parallel whatsoever in the English language, such as the science of "Sarf" or the multifarious sciences of "Balaghah," among others. Even when the English language can lay claim to a parallel science to that of the Arabic language, such as for example the science of "grammar," even in this case anyone who has the slightest understanding of the Arabic language finds that even these equivalent sciences fade nearly into oblivion when faced with the tremendous complexities and inestimable attention to the minutest detail in Arabic grammar which can literally reverse the meanings of a sentence simply by changing a single squiggle (diacritic) above the last letter of only one word in that sentence (Imagine being able to reverse the meaning of an English sentence by removing the dot over one "i" in that sentence).
** my above posts continues**
Why did I get into all of this?. Well it is in order to make it easier to understand some of the reason why the noble words of God in the Qur’an can never be faithfully translated into English and why the first thing most converts to Islam do is to learn Arabic
A similar case to the above is the one presented by our current author. The first three verses (Aal-Umran(3):42-45) do indeed use the word “angels.” However, this plural form of the word is used to describe only one angel, specifically, angel Gabriel. Such constructs are used in the Arabic language as a symbol of dignity and respect for that person. This is a popular Arabic grammatical construct called “al-majaz al-mursal” which falls under the subheading of Arabic grammar titled “Balaghah” and which we can not get into here since it requires a basic knowledge of the Arabic language and its grammar. Suffice it to say that there are at least two quick clues to this matter which even non-Arabic speaking people can appreciate. The first one is that in the first set of verses, verses 46-48 say: “The angels said… Mary said… HE replied” meaning that we are speaking about an angel designated as “he” and not “they,” in the same very verses themselves
And in Al-Baqarah(2):98: “Whosoever is an enemy to Allah, His angels, His Messengers, Gabriel, Michael (the angel of the rain), then verily, Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers.”
Here we see angel Michael too set apart with a special status and mention. Angel Gabriel is an angel. So is angel Michael. Muslims have no doubt about that. However, Gabriel is not just any angel. He is a special angel. An angel with a special purpose, unique titles, high stature with God and the patron of the prophets. This is how God dignifies and exalts those who serve Him in truth, integrity, and sincerity.
Similar to these examples, we find in the Qur’an that not all prophets are alike. For example, some prophets have been given distinction over others and are mentioned in isolation from the rest as a sign of exaltation for them. For example, God says in the Qur’an in Al-Baqarah(2):253:
“Those messengers! We preferred some of them over others. Some were those who were spoken to by God, others He raised by degrees. And unto Jesus the son of Mary We bestowed the clear proofs and assisted him with the holy Spirit (Gabriel)…”
And in Al-Israa(17):55:
“And your Lord knows best who are in the heavens and the earth. And indeed, We have preferred some of the prophets above others, and to David We gave the Psalms.”
Also, in A’al-Umran(3):84:
“Say: 'We believe in Allah and in that which was sent down upon us and that which was sent down upon Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the sons of Jacob, and that which was given unto Moses, Jesus, and the prophets from their Lord…”
Does this mean that Moses, Jesus, Abraham, etc. are not “prophets”? No. This is simply the nature of the language of the Qur’an and one of the methods used to distinguish them above the rest.
ALLAHUAKBAR
Alhamdulilah...............THNX A LOT BROTHER "stupididiot"(lol)......for the quick aid...........YOUR POST HAS CLEARED THE DOUBTS IN MY MIND THT the shaytan (sher) tried to instill THNX a LOT (jzakALLAH khair)................sher abb chuha ban gaya hay .............
HILAL K.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by HILAL K: *
ALLAHUAKBAR
Alhamdulilah...............THNX A LOT BROTHER "stupididiot"(lol)......for the quick aid...........YOUR POST HAS CLEARED THE DOUBTS IN MY MIND THT the shaytan (sher) tried to instill THNX a LOT (jzakALLAH khair)................sher abb chuha ban gaya hay .............
HILAL K.
[/QUOTE]
Will Christians enter Paradise or go to Hell? Sura 2:62 and 5:69 say "Yes", Sura 5:72 (just 3 verses later) and 3:85 say "No".
Believers, Jews, Sabaeans and Christians -
whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right -
shall have nothing to fear or regret.
-- Sura 5:69
But just three verses further in the text it says
Unbelievers are those that say:
"God is the Messiah, the son of Mary." For the Messiah himself said:
"Children of Israel, serve God, my Lord and your Lord."
He that worships other gods besides God, God will deny him Paradise,
and the fire shall be his home. None shall help the evil-doers.
-- Sura 5:72
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by HILAL K: **
... ... ...the shaytan (sher) tried to instill THNX a LOT (jzakALLAH khair)
[/quote]
Why do you call brother **sher as a Shaytan. Please avoid that in future.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by HILAL K: *
................sher abb chuha ban gaya hay .............
[/QUOTE]
I've seen you making contineous post which have very 'rude' remarks for brother sher. If you can not debate with him atleast dont be rude with him. He owns the forum as much as we do. And he should be respected as much as any other member on this forum. Please appologise for your behaviour.
i dont know about apology but rude remarks wont appear in future...........as far as sher's post is concerned...........
lets make something clear Quran states tht amongst the christian jews and sabeans are THOSE WHO BELEIVE (they r upon HANEEF-pure monotheism) and these r the ppl who will enter JANAH (paradise)
do u agree bro 'stupididiot'????
sher i think u shuold learn to read quran in ARABIC and get some TAFSIR (exegis) of Quran al-kareem..........
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Stupid Idiot: *
Why do you call brother **sher* as a Shaytan. Please avoid that in future.
I've seen you making contineous post which have very 'rude' remarks for brother sher. If you can not debate with him atleast dont be rude with him. He owns the forum as much as we do. And he should be respected as much as any other member on this forum. Please appologise for your behaviour.
[/QUOTE]
Mate, Thanks for your kind remarks and I am sure that is the kind of behaviour Muslims shloud be adapting. Oh,, No need for appologies.
By the way, if you read my post with, unprejudiced and fainess, you will see that I mean no harm or offense to anyone at all.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *
Mate, Thanks for your kind remarks and I am sure that is the kind of behaviour Muslims shloud be adapting.
[/quote]
I appreciate your understand brother.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *
Oh,, No need for appologies.
By the way, if you read my post with, unprejudiced and fainess, you will see that I mean no harm or offense to anyone at all.
[/QUOTE]
Brother, this is nothing, I've read even worse things. : )
All I want is that if you have any misconception of Islam you must ask. I apprciate this attitue. I understand how Islam was made notorious in the mind of the people. I say this becuase brother Yusuf was 'preacher' before he became a Muslim. And he sates in his lectures and writting how much he hated Islam becuase he was always told to do so from the very child hood.
And not only him there are many other examples. Cat Steven being one of them.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by HILAL K: *
listen ms/mr alooparatha....the mullah acts like an idiot becuz he shuoldnt be invited in the first place......the knowledgeable ppl shuold be......infact...the mullah is invited becuz firstly he doesnt spk english secondly they know tht mullah hasnt got any knowledge!!!!!!!!!
[/QUOTE]
Who decides who is a knowledgeable muslim? If the replies on this thread were to represent a typical cross-section of muslim society, then all discussions will end up as I have stated in my first post.
The fact remains that our religion has been so ingrained into us from early childhood that it becomes almost unthinkable to question it when we are older. Most people I know still relate stories and ideas that were probably taught to them when they were children. In other words, as they grew up, they didn't bother learning any more of their religion and simply followed the bare minimum to remain muslims. They will only go one to teach those things to their children so what happens is that total sum knowledge has not increased.
I remember in the early days of the internet, I couldn't get myself to read anti-muslim web pages. Now, being older and thicker-skinned, I actually enjoy going to those sites because, whilst they sound convincing at first, it quickly dawns on you that their criticisms can equally be applied to other religions. After all, most religions want us to believe in something that cannot be proved physically, so lack of proof of Quranic miracles also applies to the bible etc.
well lemme tell u something “pratha aloo” religion was never ingrained into my mind:nahnah: i read about islam and accepted it WILLINGLY
HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW THAT ITS THE SAME FOR EVERYONE
wat bout thousands of ppl converting (reverting) everyday from all walks of life…r they some kind of FOOOOLLLLSSSSS???
GO EAT PARATHA
Thank you for your very wise and mature comments.
There may be thousands reverting daily, I welcome that. Were you born into Islam or did you revert. If you were not born into Islam, 99.99999% you would not have converted to Islam. That goes for me too. I was born into Islam, but it wasn’t until I started reading about the religion, rather than having it drummed into me, that I realised it had more to offer than the others. As I said, no man or religion, Islam included, can prove the existence of God. Therefore theoretically there is no difference between any of the religions, other than the way they go about it. As muslims we take it as given that God exists, that is why we believe that the Quran is the word of God.
BTW, I like chutney with my paratha.