Interesting times for Pakistan, very interesting. A lot of criticism, a lot of concern, a lot of questions.
so what is patriotism to you? defend against all criticism, refuse to answer questions or answer questions with counter questions? is it something else, is it to be more introspective and see where the nation is headed, and what the implications could be.
I would have thought that if all the killings, the bomb blasts at mosques and bazars, the increased crime in cities funding the militants had not woken people up, this last shock of finding OBL in abbottabad would jolt everyone into asking questions and accountability. It seems like it did briefly, yet it seems like a large group of conspiracy theorists have emerged and in all the noise the questions are being lost.
what I am sure of is that people have the best for their country in mind, some have sprung up to protect it against criticism, some think its part of some conspiracy, but whatever is going on, is holding elected reps and paid military accountable not patriotic? is asking that a course correction is overdue in where the nation has been heading not patriotic? I think that is more patriotic than drinking the military and the 'ruling elite’s" koolaid and stick heads back in the sand.
defending high profile personalities, defending agendas and to somewhat defending institutions is what we consider patriotism.
To me, patriotism is pure loyalty to your nation, and pure loyalty requires tough love. That means that if its wrong then admit its wrong, dont call it right just because the people whom you dont like are calling it wrong and you feel obligated to oppose them. Dont blame things that needs to be fixed by you, on others.
dont call it right just because the people whom you dont like are calling it wrong and you feel obligated to oppose them. Dont blame things that needs to be fixed by you, on others.
Questioning our government/millitary and holding them accountable does not make us disloyal to Pakistan. But questioning the system that is producing all of this new information (US) does not make someone a blind patriot and a conspiracy theorist. The US has lied to the world over and over and over again. The Vietnam war documents have been declassified and what do we know? They lied about the so-called unprovoked Tonkin Gulf attacks in 1964. They lied about the WMDs to get into Iraq. They lied that Saddam was training Al-Qaeda and it was later reported by the Sept 11 commission that though Saddam was a badass, there were no links found between him and Al-Qaeda. They lied about the so-called biological weapons laboratories in Iraq. They lied about Jessica Lynch, there are lies about Pat Tillman's death. We've constantly been lied to not only by our own government but by the superpowers too so please help me understand why I should believe every word of one side of the story and not the other? I'm still a noob at all of this political stuff, I just don't know who to trust any more. I'm not going to blindly support Pakistani officials, actually I don't support them at all. But I'm not going to straight away believe the "other side" either. They're all a bunch of liars, how do you expect me to not have any questions and how can you blame me for demanding some concrete proof, especially when there have been inconsistencies in what they've been telling us?
I can guarantee true patriots do not represent the current government. The word patriot comes from the same word for father ... the role of the father with his family is the role of the patriot with his country.
The number 1 thing most fathers today are expected to do is provide for the family ... instead of providing for the country we all wanna get our share ...
Patriotism is whatever good/bad, moral/immoral thing you do with a jhanda of your country in your hand. At-least this is what it seems in present times.
Questioning our government/millitary and holding them accountable does not make us disloyal to Pakistan. But questioning the system that is producing all of this new information (US) does not make someone a blind patriot and a conspiracy theorist. The US has lied to the world over and over and over again. The Vietnam war documents have been declassified and what do we know? They lied about the so-called unprovoked Tonkin Gulf attacks in 1964. They lied about the WMDs to get into Iraq. They lied that Saddam was training Al-Qaeda and it was later reported by the Sept 11 commission that though Saddam was a badass, there were no links found between him and Al-Qaeda. They lied about the so-called biological weapons laboratories in Iraq. They lied about Jessica Lynch, there are lies about Pat Tillman's death. We've constantly been lied to not only by our own government but by the superpowers too so please help me understand why I should believe every word of one side of the story and not the other? I'm still a noob at all of this political stuff, I just don't know who to trust any more. I'm not going to blindly support Pakistani officials, actually I don't support them at all. But I'm not going to straight away believe the "other side" either. They're all a bunch of liars, how do you expect me to not have any questions and how can you blame me for demanding some concrete proof, especially when there have been inconsistencies in what they've been telling us?
The challenge is that there is much more focus on the part after the But than before it. That is irrelevant noise.
In this case it is pretty simple isnt it, Pak govt has OBLs family, He was there, he is not there now and there was a raid
so somehow he got there, someone built that damn building and was getting him supplies and stuff.
so is the govt and agencies in collusion with this dude, or incompetent, or infiltrated by those that want to protect guys like this, or were holdinghim as some sort of rainy day fund.
the answers to that have zero to do with the part after the But
Hasn't the entire world been focusing on the part before the but more than it has been on the part after? Aren't the news channels talking more about Pakistan hiding Osama rather than the ISI/millitary capturing over 400 terrorists including a prime suspect in the sept 11 attacks? And what has been achieved by the negative attention? Are they ever going to tell us the whole truth and nothing but the truth? What have the questions, the criticism, the condemning done anything to prevent more Pakistanis from being killed? More than 150 people have been blown up since that dude was dumped into the sea so I don't think any of what I said was irrelevant noise, it is all intertwined with the war on terror. From what I understand, you'd like Pakistanis to hold Zardari & Co. accountable and perhaps ask them to step down or start a revolution? I don't think any average Pakistani citizen has woken up today thinking about patriotism or a revolution, he's thinking about how to get some roti for his family today. Even on GS, plenty have spoken out against the government/millitary (including myself) but how many have seriously thought about doing something for Pakistan?
Hasn't the entire world been focusing on the part before the but more than it has been on the part after? Aren't the news channels talking more about Pakistan hiding Osama rather than the ISI/millitary capturing over 400 terrorists including a prime suspect in the sept 11 attacks? And what has been achieved by the negative attention? Are they ever going to tell us the whole truth and nothing but the truth? What have the questions, the criticism, the condemning done anything to prevent more Pakistanis from being killed? More than 150 people have been blown up since that dude was dumped into the sea so I don't think any of what I said was irrelevant noise, it is all intertwined with the war on terror. From what I understand, you'd like Pakistanis to hold Zardari & Co. accountable and perhaps ask them to step down or start a revolution? I don't think any average Pakistani citizen has woken up today thinking about patriotism or a revolution, he's thinking about how to get some roti for his family today. Even on GS, plenty have spoken out against the government/millitary (including myself) but how many have seriously thought about doing something for Pakistan?
Question is not what the entire world is focusing on, but what Patriotic Pakistanis should be focusing on.
btw- do you really think the problems in pakistan started with the war on terror? really?
Question is not what the entire world is focusing on, but what Patriotic Pakistanis should be focusing on.
btw- do you really think the problems in pakistan started with the war on terror? really?
No I'm saying the situation further deteriorated in the last decade and is getting worse by the day and neither our government nor anyone else could care less. I understand you're addressing Pakistanis here and I'm asking what would their acknowledgement of our mistakes/lies achieve? What do you think they need to do to control the situation?
They need introspection, and then action. The conspiracy theory rhetoric storm does not create Edhi Centers, or Hamdard University, or HDF schools. Forget about social activism, issue based grassroots efforts and volunteerism....the nation could start by maybe voting for people based on issues and then holding them accountable, not what the persons background is. Oh yeah meeting their obligations to the nation by bothering to pay their taxes may be a decent thing to do as well. Mastery of pointing fingers outwards in all directions is not going to do jack. An honest introspection is a good starting point.
Though the grassroot efforts aren’t going to do much to end terrorism and prevent more people from getting killed. This is up to the millitary, intelligence agencies, and government of not just Pakistan but of all allies in this war on terror.