Re: What is Pakistan and Pakistani?
I have moved most of “Khalifa” posts to forum where it belongs “Religion”, if anyone wishes to discuss Khilafa (whether it be in context of Pakistan) please discuss there, thanks.
I have moved most of "Khalifa" posts to forum where it belongs "Religion", if anyone wishes to discuss Khilafa (whether it be in context of Pakistan) please discuss there, thanks.
Thank you.
Re: What is Pakistan and Pakistani?
We must acknowledge that everyone in Pakistan has to act honestly and sincerely.
No hypocrisy.
No excuses and reasoning to do what is best for everyone and not for only few.
Political affiliation aside, all have to encourage anyone who does something good.
We talk big but ignore common problems and accept them.
No writing on the walls.
I laugh at the writing on the wall which says " Look donkey is urinating" and not only someone is actually doing the same thing there but the wall itself is not clean by someone writing on it the statement. Iam sure many of us are aware of other laughable writings on the walls.
Do we see the mind set?
Can someone put garbage containers on street and still find them next day? Most likely not. We all know about the fountain in Karachi.
People burned over 1000 vehicles on Benazir's death in one day in Karachi and many more elsewhere. Who eventually got hurt? These dumb people themselves, since there was no transport for several days. Eyewitnesses saw people from rural areas coming to city area and throwing stones on moving vehicles. Did we see enough help from administration?
No.
Can someone rely on law enforcing (law breaking) institutions to help in case of a robbery? Not at all.
Can a woman get to police station and complain of being raped and not be harrassed?
Nope.
We are about to witness absolute filth on the road and neighborhood very soon during Eid-ul-Duha in the name of religion. Blood, animal carcass, excreta and its food supplies along with flies is what everyone will gladly contribute to and not to mention the dirt and smell all over.
Pakistan and its identity and its infra-structure are far from being acceptable let alone being perfect. A lot need to be done.
Pakistani worship those who live in this world and don't even know where Pakistan is in the map..... Ever thought of it?
well there are also several american who dont know about America's existence, so what is ur point over here? bay-hisi (heartlessness) or illiteracy?
So many posters have indeed contributed very nicely. Here are few thoughts.
- Pakistanis know how small Pakistan is, but they don't know how BIG it is.
- Pakistanis know who the world powers are, but they forget Pakistan is a regional power.
- Pakistanis know what OTHER countries should do for Pakistan, but they ignore what Pakistan should do for other countries.
- Pakistanis love to talk about the rights of Muslims around the world, but they deny equal rights to minority sects and religions.
- Pakistanis are emotional and short-sighted when it comes to Pakistan.
- Pakistanis are too easy to buy into the anti-conspiracy theories.
- Pakistanis severely lack the sense of community.
- Pakistanis love to talk about Islam but they keep their streets and bathrooms dirty.
- Pakistanis love to put Arabs on a pedestal, while Arabs treat them as Miskeens and Rafeeks.
- Pakistanis hate American, while making 10 mile long lines to get the American visa.
Why is it so? Any comments?
well there are also several american who dont know about America's existence, so what is ur point over here? bay-hisi (heartlessness) or illiteracy?
I have tried to show the reason above.
Pakistani need to tell others about themselves upfront.
Many Pakistani do not know about their country thanks to our media and 'journalists' with slave mentality.
We may know more about the 'janam din' of Lata than birthday of Nadeem, M. Ali, Zeba or Shabnam. Thanks to our highjacked TV from Dubai and Europe.
So many posters have indeed contributed very nicely. Here are few thoughts.
- Pakistanis know how small Pakistan is, but they don't know how BIG it is.
- Pakistanis know who the world powers are, but they forget Pakistan is a regional power.
- Pakistanis know what OTHER countries should do for Pakistan, but they ignore what Pakistan should do for other countries.
- Pakistanis love to talk about the rights of Muslims around the world, but they deny equal rights to minority sects and religions.
- Pakistanis are emotional and short-sighted when it comes to Pakistan.
- Pakistanis are too easy to buy into the anti-conspiracy theories.
- Pakistanis severely lack the sense of community.
- Pakistanis love to talk about Islam but they keep their streets and bathrooms dirty.
- Pakistanis love to put Arabs on a pedestal, while Arabs treat them as Miskeens and Rafeeks.
- Pakistanis hate American, while making 10 mile long lines to get the American visa.
Why is it so? Any comments?
Good points.
Did you want to say conspiracy theory rather anti-conspiracy theory in point 6?
*Cleanliness is half 'Imaan' (faith). So many of us have lived and died with less than other half 'Imaan' considering no one is perfect. *
Ever thought of it?
Diwana:-
- I hate the fact that so many written things are available in English and not Urdu. Most Pakistanis don’t know English.
More and more women are wearing Western dress/skimpy clothes than ever before on TV. The men have always done so and now its is considered OK for the women to do so. What happened to pride in wearing local clothing?
The USA is the most powerful country in the world so that sort of coverage was everywhere.
Ammar – the problem with words such as Khalifa and Shariah is we have allowed he West to dictate what these words mean to us and those proclaiming Shariah have no real understanding of it. Muslim unity is a must and whether we like it or not we have to counter Western dominance of the world not just accept ourselves in a lower position. It does not mean we should impose our beliefs and values upon them but we should aim to stay united together otherwise we will lose our way of life, religion and have it replaced by theirs. Secularism has its advantages but for us muslims it will hinder an Islamic way of life and replace it with Western customs and values.
What leaders do you talk about establishing a Khalifa? Nawaz Sharif? Zardari? These people are corrupt and will only ever use religion to enhance their political power. They can never work for Shariah, they are stooges of the west.
People assume that muslims of Indonesia have nothing in common with Arabia – their cultures are different. In todays world no country can make it alone. The West have united around their ideology and have taken control over the world.
Ajju bhai – Pakistanis not the worlds largest secular democracy where so many people are killed yearly for belonging to the minority religion.
Burqaposhx – point no3 – there is no country which respects Pakistan but we still have relations with them.
Point no4 – we can copy the west but the west has become socially and morally bankrupt. Western society is falling apart. They may have technology and money but everything else is going down the sink.
Good points.
Did you want to say conspiracy theory rather anti-conspiracy theory in point 6? **
Thanks. Sorry for the typo. I meant to say "Anti-Pakistan conspiracy theories"
*Cleanliness is half 'Imaan' (faith)... *
Absolutely! But we shouldn't put too much religion in it. We now know that cleanliness is essential for healthy living.
Thanks. Sorry for the typo. I meant to say "Anti-Pakistan conspiracy theories"
Absolutely! But we shouldn't put too much religion in it. We now know that cleanliness is essential for healthy living.
Agree. And no need to sorry.
Pakistani identity is clouded and perhaps disappered these days with actions of its own people.
There is absolutely no need to outsource everything including culture, language and political judicial structure.
College and school books have removed Pakistan and its heritage and history.
What are the root causes need to be established and reality check hurts but eventually pays off.
Diwana:-
- I hate the fact that so many written things are available in English and not Urdu. Most Pakistanis don’t know English.
More and more women are wearing Western dress/skimpy clothes than ever before on TV. The men have always done so and now its is considered OK for the women to do so. What happened to pride in wearing local clothing?
The USA is the most powerful country in the world so that sort of coverage was everywhere.
Ammar – the problem with words such as Khalifa and Shariah is we have allowed he West to dictate what these words mean to us and those proclaiming Shariah have no real understanding of it. Muslim unity is a must and whether we like it or not we have to counter Western dominance of the world not just accept ourselves in a lower position. It does not mean we should impose our beliefs and values upon them but we should aim to stay united together otherwise we will lose our way of life, religion and have it replaced by theirs. Secularism has its advantages but for us muslims it will hinder an Islamic way of life and replace it with Western customs and values. What leaders do you talk about establishing a Khalifa? Nawaz Sharif? Zardari? These people are corrupt and will only ever use religion to enhance their political power. They can never work for Shariah, they are stooges of the west. People assume that muslims of Indonesia have nothing in common with Arabia – their cultures are different. In todays world no country can make it alone. The West have united around their ideology and have taken control over the world. Ajju bhai – Pakistanis not the worlds largest secular democracy where so many people are killed yearly for belonging to the minority religion. Burqaposhx – point no3 – there is no country which respects Pakistan but we still have relations with them. Point no4 – we can copy the west but the west has become socially and morally bankrupt. Western society is falling apart. They may have technology and money but everything else is going down the sink.
Many good points.
Just differ on bashing others since it serves no purpose when we ourselves are at fault and need reform.
Regrading unfortunate events of minority killings that may not be the work of insiders. Anyhow their security is just as important as anyone else. The problem is that the agencies lack resources, education and above all the motivation and will.
People get wounded or killed for cellphones, watches and some money and these unknown people get away so easily.
Recently some events happened where people took revange themselves. A desperate measure which may not be needed if agencies do their job honestly and with vigilance.
Regarding USA coverage, one does not need Pakistani channel to spend hours and hours. There are many US channels broadcast all over the world for those who are really interested.
People pay subscription to Pakistani channels to get connected to Pakistan. Perhaps 5% is enough for international coverage. Other countries spend only 30 seconds on outside news and consider its waste of resources if spend too much bandwidth on outside affairs.
What do we mean by Pakistan and Pakistani when we see the following:
1- The national language is Urdu but majority of documents including official documents are written in a non-local language.
2- Media has everything in non-local language or made in foriegn country including India ....
This include drama/serial/show titles, talk show titles, movie ads, news from outside Pakistan more than from inside.
Why should one subscribe to Pakistani channels when one can see same stuff on other channels anyway while living outside Pakistan??????????????
Long scenes in drama with loud background music and a sad crying woman with tears in her eyes is another common scenario. Seems like evryone needs a 'happy pill' there.
Plain waste of money..isn't it? Is there a difference in shows like game shows, talk shows or other programs from Pakistan and US? Copying other themes is considered 'norm' by few but I am sure majority even in Pakistan is just too worked up to see these 'charba' (copied) shows.
3- The person who speaks a foreign language in good accent is the host of the program wearing clothes made in foreign country....(Faiza)
4- Election is in USA and coverage is on Pakistani TV....... Why they do not cover election from phillipines, china, germany etc. the same way? no.
So why should they spend time on US election? Hours of hours and hours of coverage when they know whatever happens will still be on next day newspaper.
Show what average pakistani in Pakistan is suffering from... or doing a great job by being a Pakistani ....instead.
Show what is happeing in Pakistan and in any local city or district which could make life of average person better in Pakistan.
Get out of the slave mentality. Brits left long time ago.
Take care of the country on your own. Stop being the slave/beggar in the world.
So what is Pakistani and how Pakistani is different even from neighboring country like India?
There are many more points to discuss but share your thoughts on these if you like.
It is not all doom and gloom my friend. Pakistan has its own unique mix of culturual traits that are hard to find anywhere else. Some of the things that you have sited are natural part of global world where information and entertainment from faraway places are readily available, sometimes at the cost of local customs and culture. Having travelled the world, I can say that Pakistan is probably at the lower end of places affected by globalization and a global culture. You also have to recognize the natural similiarity and common culture with India and Indian culture that automatically attracts people to them. This effect is amplified by suppression of Pakistani culture, Pakistani arts, Pakistani movies and Pakistani music by the Mullah influence and the forced attempts at Arabization of Pakistani culture.
OTOH some of the things that you mentioned have come from a tradition of keeping people busy with something faraway so they don't pay attention to what is happening in their backyards. I have wondered myself why the news of California wildfire, for example, get coverage in news in Pakistani media. I think, traditionally coverage of local news and issues was discouraged and limited by succesive governments in Pakistan. I remember in the 80s (Zia's time) the news of any local riots etc. in Karachi did not use to get any coverage on TV news and the only information was few lines of press report from the Deputy Commisioner office. Things have gotten a lot better with open media now. Some of it is just laziness of news media taking stories of AP and Reuter feeds and publishing them.
The language issue is complex. There is a long history of English as an official language, Urdu is the national language but not the mother tongue of most of the population. The mix of English, Urdu and regional languages is uniquely Pakistani. Nothing too bad about that, in my view. Yes, things could be made better so that all languages remain important and fluency of several languuages is recognized as a benefit and encouraged.
It is not all doom and gloom my friend. Pakistan has its own unique mix of culturual traits that are hard to find anywhere else. Some of the things that you have sited are natural part of global world where information and entertainment from faraway places are readily available, sometimes at the cost of local customs and culture. Having travelled the world, I can say that Pakistan is probably at the lower end of places affected by globalization and a global culture. You also have to recognize the natural similiarity and common culture with India and Indian culture that automatically attracts people to them. This effect is amplified by suppression of Pakistani culture, Pakistani arts, Pakistani movies and Pakistani music by the Mullah influence and the forced attempts at Arabization of Pakistani culture.
OTOH some of the things that you mentioned have come from a tradition of keeping people busy with something faraway so they don't pay attention to what is happening in their backyards. I have wondered myself why the news of California wildfire, for example, get coverage in news in Pakistani media. I think, traditionally coverage of local news and issues was discouraged and limited by succesive governments in Pakistan. I remember in the 80s (Zia's time) the news of any local riots etc. in Karachi did not use to get any coverage on TV news and the only information was few lines of press report from the Deputy Commisioner office. Things have gotten a lot better with open media now. Some of it is just laziness of news media taking stories of AP and Reuter feeds and publishing them.
The language issue is complex. There is a long history of English as an official language, Urdu is the national language but not the mother tongue of most of the population. The mix of English, Urdu and regional languages is uniquely Pakistani. Nothing too bad about that, in my view. Yes, things could be made better so that all languages remain important and fluency of several languuages is recognized as a benefit and encouraged.
Thanks for a sensible post.
You mentioned the weaknesses and their reasons. But we do not have to accept the reasons as such and need to think the other way.
I am aware of Indian culture and it similarity with Pakistan but no need to copy everything from neighbors. No need to promote on Pakistani channels. Why waste money of those who want to look for Pakistani art, news, music and singers?
How much of Pakistani culture, art, music or singers are promoted in any other country?
Only thing which I see somewhat better is music from India but thats because of suppresion in Pakistan of music and talented singers and flooding of Indian music just because of its large population. Pakistani music is getting better very fast though.
All local languages need to be promoted.
A real action is needed and new words to be added in to Urdu from all local languages. People who make fun of local words need to be discouraged.
Local customs and traditions need more promotion. How many people know good things about rural Pakistan and its great traditions?
There are many talented artists and writers in Pakistan. Geo has one program on it.
It is hard to find a book or pictoral with map of Pakistan and tourism department have responsibility. But private sectors can work also in this task.
Documentaries are very few or next to nothing.
Many books are writen by outsiders and these books promote their views of Pakistan.
Many pictures show an old woman with shrunken yellow skin and a veil or a boy with old shirt on the street with a smile. A rickshaw and a tanga. Thats what is shown by others. (When Pakistani send pictures to impress people back home they take great care to get best spot or view in the picture) I know a person was yelled at by a local woman on London street since he was making a general video of the street and he also took video of a poor man sleeping on pavement outside a shop. And this was in a country where all facilities are available and sleeping on street is by choice. Regardless of this woman being right or wrong, she had enough sense of ownership and responsibility.