There's two stereotypes in this thread, 1: They're oppressed or 2: They're super shareef. I disagree with both. I feel Pakistani girls (living in Pakistan) are actually far more "advanced" than girls like me who've spent a bulk of their lives abroad. There's nothing wrong with that, I'm glad they've come a long way in terms of freedom of choice.
Ashy2010, let me guess, you were not born nor bred in Pakistan and the last time you visited Pak was perhaps a decade ago, right? The criteria you've given is that of an oppressed girl, not an average Pakistan girl. There's a big difference. Let's compare an Afghani girl (living in Afghanistan) to a Pakistani girl... which one's actually oppressed? ... yeah.
Agreed bb. The thing is, what people living abroad dont realise that a lot has changed since they last visited and whenever they visit they usually dont get to see the change that has been witnessed by someone who is born and bred here in pakistan.
Agreed bb. The thing is, what people living abroad dont realise that a lot has changed since they last visited and whenever they visit they usually dont get to see the change that has been witnessed by someone who is born and bred here in pakistan.
Actually I have....Asked me 5-6 years ago and I would have completely agreed with the "oppressed/jailed Pakistani girl" as I have family members where the girls never left the house without their parents, they never socialized with anyone outside of family (they weren't allowed to visit friends nor did friends visit them), they spent their days watching star plus dramas or movies, doing everything for their brothers (while the brothers got to play outside). they had no say in who they wanted to marry etc and of course the typical in-law/marriage crap after getting married. and for the most part they were okay wiht it (To me, this was the "average Pakistani girl in Pakistan", this was how my parents wanted to raise me, how they wanted me to be, and I did not agree with it)
WheN I visited late last year things were drastically different and not in a bad way either. The younger girls who have since grown up are going to school, they do have ambitions and goals that they're working towards, they're doing well in school, some of them work/have internships...nobody looks down on them. they stil have certain restrictions, its not like they're out partying or meeting up wtih friends all teh time, but considering hwo things were just a few years prior, its still better.
Considering that 60% of Pakistan's population lives on under $2 a day, isn't the average Pakistani girl someone who spends her day worrying about food and shelter as opposed to education, socialising or any of those things? I don't get what definition of 'average' we're using here.
I really don't understand the whole concept of this rather subjective question. We're all different in our ways whether it be our beliefs, ways or even the political ideology we support. Point being there is no average. Although, it is quite easy to generalise amongst Pakistanis. As they're either quite religious minded or liberal minded. Sometimes it is easier to generalise and what I have noticed in my city. It is pretty split between the girls who go out drinking/clubbing, sleeping around and living what they assume their life to the full. On the other hand you have some religious girls too and they keep themselves to themselves.
Ashy2010, let me guess, you were not born nor bred in Pakistan and the last time you visited Pak was perhaps a decade ago, right? The criteria you've given is that of an oppressed girl, not an average Pakistan girl. There's a big difference. Let's compare an Afghani girl (living in Afghanistan) to a Pakistani girl... which one's actually oppressed? ... yeah.
Yes, I was not born n bred in Pakistan. But I still have female cousins there with whom I have been constantly in touch with. Following are the examples of my female cousins living in Pakistan:
Many of them are not allowed to do jobs (and if yes, only allowed to do jobs in schools);
Many were not asked about their marzi in marriage (my cousin who is my best friend also, had been literally crying before her marriage because the guy was very very dark complexioned, another cousin also did not like the guy she was going to get married - but now Alhamdo Lillah, they both are living happily with the guys chosen by their families - now whether they are truly happy or just compromising, only Allah knows the best);
Many are not allowed to go outside without their brothers who have the responsibility to drop and pick them to and from everywhere;
One cousin had to leave the job because his younger brother got a good job and he asked her to quit as he liked her to stay at home, so even younger brother has so much control over her
One cousin had to marry a guy 12 years older than her which she and her other sisters never liked (he was their family friends)
One cousin who was asked to move out of her in-laws house with her family after the birth of 4th daughter, and she was invited again to live with them after the birth of the son and my cousin had to do what she was asked to do.
There are many more examples in my family which shows such girls still exist in Pakistan. And my extended family is not lower class uneducated people. They are upper middle class well educated family.
Whatever criteria I had mentioned in my previous post, might or might not be present in every average girl living in Pakistan. But these things are usually expected of an average girl in Pakistan. Even my family expected me to adhere to some strict rules despite having being brought up outside Pakistan and even I feel pressured to meet the expectations of my family (like saying yes to a proposal even if I do not like it because there are examples in my family that in the end, girls live happily with the guys chosen by their families). Its just that there are not much restrictions on me (like I was allowed to go to UK for my higher studies which is considered a big NO NO for other girls in my extended family living in Pakistan).
So I am also an average pakistani girl living outside Pakistan but I have a little more freedom than my cousins living back home.
What I wanted to say is that an AVERAGE PAKISTANI GIRL IS REALLY AN OPPRESSED GIRL. Its just that the entext of oppression varies from girl to girl and family to family.
Yes, I was not born n bred in Pakistan. But I still have female cousins there with whom I have been constantly in touch with. Following are the examples of my female cousins living in Pakistan:
Many of them are not allowed to do jobs (and if yes, only allowed to do jobs in schools);
Many were not asked about their marzi in marriage (my cousin who is my best friend also, had been literally crying before her marriage because the guy was very very dark complexioned, another cousin also did not like the guy she was going to get married - but now Alhamdo Lillah, they both are living happily with the guys chosen by their families - now whether they are truly happy or just compromising, only Allah knows the best);
Many are not allowed to go outside without their brothers who have the responsibility to drop and pick them to and from everywhere;
One cousin had to leave the job because his younger brother got a good job and he asked her to quit as he liked her to stay at home, so even younger brother has so much control over her
One cousin had to marry a guy 12 years older than her which she and her other sisters never liked (he was their family friends)
One cousin who was asked to move out of her in-laws house with her family after the birth of 4th daughter, and she was invited again to live with them after the birth of the son and my cousin had to do what she was asked to do.
There are many more examples in my family which shows such girls still exist in Pakistan. And my extended family is not lower class uneducated people. They are upper middle class well educated family.
Whatever criteria I had mentioned in my previous post, might or might not be present in every average girl living in Pakistan. But these things are usually expected of an average girl in Pakistan. Even my family expected me to adhere to some strict rules despite having being brought up outside Pakistan and even I feel pressured to meet the expectations of my family (like saying yes to a proposal even if I do not like it because there are examples in my family that in the end, girls live happily with the guys chosen by their families). Its just that there are not much restrictions on me (like I was allowed to go to UK for my higher studies which is considered a big NO NO for other girls in my extended family living in Pakistan).
So I am also an average pakistani girl living outside Pakistan but I have a little more freedom than my cousins living back home.
What I wanted to say is that an AVERAGE PAKISTANI GIRL IS REALLY AN OPPRESSED GIRL. Its just that the entext of oppression varies from girl to girl and family to family.
Ashy i am agreed to you but not fully agreed because you are relying on the information you get from your family only. How many Pakistani families have you met in last decade or so. i think NONE because you have yet to visit Pakistan to meet pure Pakistani AVERAGE girls. Being an AVERAGE Pakistani girl (born and bred in Pakistan), I should tell you what is an AVERAGE PAKISTANI GIRL. i have all the liberty in the world. Girls in my family go out for work and have achieved their aims. My father and other male relative are very broadminded who has given us independence, trust and above all confidence. If i want to study abroad, i have my fathers permission. And no i don't belong to any upper class family. I belong to Middle class family. Alhamdulillah Girls can chose their own choice of man if they want to. Parents don't force us to marry any Tom Dick and Harry because our family members know our rights and respect that. And its not only my family, you will find that majority of families are OK with working girls. In fact now guys want a girl who can move with him in society with whom he can enjoy his life. People who don't live here and visit Pakistan once a year don't know how much Pakistan has changed. As i said before girls are more aware of their rights. And no we are not impressed with western culture, we are just more independent now. I have seen guys and families who love more their daughters and willing to have daughters rather than son seriously.
Ashy i am agreed to you but not fully agreed because you are relying on the information you get from your family only. How many Pakistani families have you met in last decade or so. i think NONE because you have yet to visit Pakistan to meet pure Pakistani AVERAGE girls. Being an AVERAGE Pakistani girl (born and bred in Pakistan), I should tell you what is an AVERAGE PAKISTANI GIRL. i have all the liberty in the world. Girls in my family go out for work and have achieved their aims. My father and other male relative are very broadminded who has given us independence, trust and above all confidence. If i want to study abroad, i have my fathers permission. And no i don't belong to any upper class family. I belong to Middle class family. Alhamdulillah Girls can chose their own choice of man if they want to. Parents don't force us to marry any Tom Dick and Harry because our family members know our rights and respect that. And its not only my family, you will find that majority of families are OK with working girls. In fact now guys want a girl who can move with him in society with whom he can enjoy his life. People who don't live here and visit Pakistan once a year don't know how much Pakistan has changed. As i said before girls are more aware of their rights. And no we are not impressed with western culture, we are just more independent now. I have seen guys and families who love more their daughters and willing to have daughters rather than son seriously.
I already stated that the extent of freedom and oppression varies from girl to girl and family to family. Your family may be more open to ideas when it comes to girls which is VERY ENCOURAGING. However, the examples from my family show the things expected of girls even in this modern age although my family is educated.
Actually this is a scale and each girl and family is placed on a particular point on that scale depending on their principles and ideologies. On this scale, one extreme is extremeley jaahil practaices and the other extreme is extremely liberal practices, the averag pakistani girl exists somewhere in between.
Remember that there are still marriages of girls with Quran in our rular areas, practices of Wani and honour killing still exist there etc. On the other extreme, there are extremely modern girls in Pakistan engaged in all sorts of liberal practices.
And I appreciate cutefifa that your family seems to be slightly towards the modern side of the scale despite keeping in the values and traditions.
The girls bred outside Pakistan are willing to know about average pakistani girls because they are compared to them a lot. So my criteria would allow them to know the restrictions which may be faced by many girls living in Pakistan. If a girl like you cutefifa is not facing much restriction, you are lucky.
I agree that some points can be classified as oppression, like force marriage. But, things like...telling the girls to not go out unless it's important, or not talk to boys, etc., is not oppression. It's being protective.
In Islam, men are the protectors of women. So, if a father (or even the mother) prevents her daughter from these things, then they're doing the right thing. It's not oppression, it's their duty.
As for boys, they do have a bit more "freedom," but it doesn't mean they can pary all night long. JEven if they can go out more for things like going to the markets, and stuff, they should stay in their limits.
Ashy i am agreed to you but not fully agreed because you are relying on the information you get from your family only. How many Pakistani families have you met in last decade or so. i think NONE because you have yet to visit Pakistan to meet pure Pakistani AVERAGE girls. Being an AVERAGE Pakistani girl (born and bred in Pakistan), I should tell you what is an AVERAGE PAKISTANI GIRL. i have all the liberty in the world. Girls in my family go out for work and have achieved their aims. My father and other male relative are very broadminded who has given us independence, trust and above all confidence. If i want to study abroad, i have my fathers permission. And no i don't belong to any upper class family. I belong to Middle class family. Alhamdulillah Girls can chose their own choice of man if they want to. Parents don't force us to marry any Tom Dick and Harry because our family members know our rights and respect that. And its not only my family, you will find that majority of families are OK with working girls. In fact now guys want a girl who can move with him in society with whom he can enjoy his life. People who don't live here and visit Pakistan once a year don't know how much Pakistan has changed. As i said before girls are more aware of their rights. And no we are not impressed with western culture, we are just more independent now. I have seen guys and families who love more their daughters and willing to have daughters rather than son seriously.
Good for you and your family but I still think it's not as common. We comment on what we observe and live through.....I know there are girls who have your kind of life but I also don't believe that it's everywhere.
*Just because it doesn't happen in your family doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
*
Good for you and your family but I still think it's not as common. We comment on what we observe and live through.....I know there are girls who have your kind of life but I also don't believe that it's everywhere.
*Just because it doesn't happen in your family doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
*
As i said before that i am agreed with Ashy to some extend, But people are changing here. Even few of my friends, who belong to lower middle class families and their families belong to some village, are working here and independent girls. What i am trying to say is that the definition of "AVERAGE PAKISTANI GIRL" is changing now. Obviously it will take some time but still I am hopeful that all the people will accept all these things soon and give girls all their rights.
I already stated that the extent of freedom and oppression varies from girl to girl and family to family. Your family may be more open to ideas when it comes to girls which is VERY ENCOURAGING. However, the examples from my family show the things expected of girls even in this modern age although my family is educated.
Actually this is a scale and each girl and family is placed on a particular point on that scale depending on their principles and ideologies. On this scale, one extreme is extremeley jaahil practaices and the other extreme is extremely liberal practices, the averag pakistani girl exists somewhere in between.
Remember that there are still marriages of girls with Quran in our rular areas, practices of Wani and honour killing still exist there etc. On the other extreme, there are extremely modern girls in Pakistan engaged in all sorts of liberal practices.
And I appreciate cutefifa that your family seems to be slightly towards the modern side of the scale despite keeping in the values and traditions.
The girls bred outside Pakistan are willing to know about average pakistani girls because they are compared to them a lot. So my criteria would allow them to know the restrictions which may be faced by many girls living in Pakistan. If a girl like you cutefifa is not facing much restriction, you are lucky.
Ashy these thing you will find in other countries as well. Why we always associate these honor killings with Pakistan only. If you google you will find that in other countries even in west, fathers and brothers kill their sisters or daughters in the name of honor killing. We always see negative side of Pakistan so we always see girls here as confined in their houses with no permission from their families to start their career or education. Actually its not the case. Even you will come across maids whose children are studying in schools including daughters (at least their girls can read Urdu now). In the same way you will find very conservative Pakistani families in western countries. So we should not associate things generally with whole community.
