Is it really the ‘strict’ version of Islam as so many of you love to adamantly claim ? or is it the reality of how people in Pakistan live?
Waqas
what is the reality of how people in Pakistan live?
culturally, there isn't one uniform reality for all of Pakistan...
many sub cultures exist within Pakistan...one of which is the 'strict' version of Islam as well...
Which version of Islam?
Maybe you should start by defining culture first, Islamic or Pak culture ki ba'd meiN dekhi jae gi.
well for one thing, Pakistan was created as a homeland for the muslims of the subcontinent, so it is an Islamic republic, nation, culture by every defintion of these words. however, extremism of whatever kind was never visualised in any way by the creator of Pakistan or his colleagus. today the kind of extremist Islam we see is not the kind of Islam that was taught by the Prophet PBUH and so it's not the Islam that is part of Pakistani culture. it's being imposed by politicians for their political gains. they use Islam as a weapon to stimulate the illiterate masses to achieve their political aims. real Islam means Peace and harrmony and thats what our ideology and culture in Pakistan is, was, or atleast should have been based on. Our Flag has a white portion which represents the ethnic religious cultural minorities, as fellow countrymen, we were taught to and supposed to live in harmony and brotherhood with everyone.
"Is it really the 'strict' version of Islam as so many of you love to adamantly claim ? or is it the reality of how people in Pakistan live?"
unfortunately the picture today shows extremes on both sides. the mullah's are ready to kill anyone and send anyone to jihad except their own sons while the liberal classes are far too indulged in their westernized and luxurious lifestyles that they hardly have time to reflect on their cultural backgrounds-they are ready to pounce and accept anything that is western.
Islam is your religion. Indian is your culture...for those who don't like India, call it Anti-Indian is theirs.
Our culture has historically been much more liberal than our faith allows. You need only see the kind of decadence during the Mughal era (courtesan culture, manner of dressing, etc). When the British began arriving in India muslim families would marry off their daughters to Christian British officers to gain influence.
It is a fact that when visitor came to India from the Islamic heartlands (Arab lands and Persia), they would be shocked at how liberal Indian Muslims were, and just how much of local Indian and Hindu culture they had absorbed even at the expense of deviating away from Islam.
The creation of Pakistan has offered the opportunity to undo the errors of the past, break away from the historical decadence of our culture & society, and restore ourselves to being a much more Islamic society, inshallah.
^ Why do you automatically elevate the visitors from arabia the calibrators of liberality and islam? may be they are too fundamentalist, extremist and stuffed up in their ways. There is in fact ample evidence of that being true. look at the number of teroroists coming out arabian region and countries with people who admire the arabians!
By the way, you should also pay a visit to India - Mumbai in particular and see how good a time these "arabian visitors" have while in India. And it's not even referring to the immoral sides (which also some of them have gotten caught indulging in)
I am sure Allah would prefer the muslim who lives in peace with Hindus and Jews and Sikhs and Christans etc and have some fun too - over a so called arabian or pakistani muslim who is all so pious at home but can't go out to the market without a grenade strapped to the waist.
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*Originally posted by TomSawyer: *
^ Why do you automatically elevate the visitors from arabia the calibrators of liberality and islam? may be they are too fundamentalist, extremist and stuffed up in their ways. There is in fact ample evidence of that being true. look at the number of teroroists coming out arabian region and countries with people who admire the arabians!
By the way, you should also pay a visit to India - Mumbai in particular and see how good a time these "arabian visitors" have while in India. And it's not even referring to the immoral sides (which also some of them have gotten caught indulging in)
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^^
That may be the case of the middle-east visitors now, but I was refering to middle eastern visitors in the 1700s and early 1800s, who visited the large areas of India that were under Muslim rule and were apalled at the decadence of the local Muslims and how much they had adopted Hindu ways.
Like I said, courtesan culture was just the tip of the iceburg. Take a look at classical moghul paintings and note the style of dressing of women in them, and how risque their clothing was. Muslim visitors from abroad during the era of the Mughals, the nizams, and Tipu Sultan would be horified at the liberal sexual attitudes of the locals.
Muslim India seems to have spent its time primarily under excessively liberal attitudes and culture, with the sole exception of religious extremism under Emperor Aurengzeb, who went all the way to the other end of the spectrum to the worst kind of religious intolerance and conservatism.
Hey Maddie-
Did courtesan culture originate in India or did it come from the Islamic world into the South Asian peninsula? Most often people think of harams and dancing girls as an icon of Arabian past so just wanted to figure that out. Wasn't it brought to India by the muslim Mughals? thanks for the clarification.
The answer should be in the following format:
1) How do you defines culture?
2) What is the true Islamic culture?
3) How is the popular Pakistani culture different from the Islamic culture.
For starts, I have seen so many people differ on what culture really is, and if a religion can actually have a culture and in Islam where the line is drawn between the Arab Culture which is suppose to be local & the Universal Islamic culture.
munni
the harems and the courtesan culture as far as i think was transferred to us from the Turkish-persian noble societies, who had influence from both romans and arabs.
the rich culture of kings and nobles always develops a courtesan culture of one form or another since pomp and show and luxury is the essence of monarchy.
mAd_ScIeNtIsT
why accuse the eras of yester year? we have that type of vulgar, immoral courtesan culture even today among the nobles and influentials all over the world. it's a fact that in a society its always the upper class that starts to get liberal and leave its moral and ethical values behind under the intoxicating influence of their power etc. but it must be kept in mind that such classes have always been there everywhere and exist even today, but they do not represent the whole society, culture or the common man of a society.
Courtesan culture was brought to the indian sub continent by the muslim arabs. It was also brought to other parts of the world by Arabs too. Prime eg is the Ottoman empire. Sultan The Magnificient has supposedly 999 concubines in his harem. 27 generations of Sultans never married a woman.
So our culture is much influenced by invading Arabs of that time. Then ofcourse there is a hint of hindu culture in our wedding traditions.
How our culture should be like? Is that question we shoudl worry about?
I dont think so. Why because, you cannot shape a culture. Culture is shaped out of political and economical whirlwinds of the times.
for example, urban United States is experiencing hip hop culture. Thats not native to united states, for that matter its not native to any country. But its evolving because of the blacks in the US.
Toronto culture is influenced by the Reggae music- number of Jamaicans living in Toronto.
Also to solely adopt a Arab-Islamic culture is unnatural for a Pakistani- due to our geographic nature. We are exposed to countries like India and China unlike many Arab countries. Islam is not a culture. It could never be a culture. It can tell you Haram and Halal but it doesnt tell you to eat Shawarma and not biryani.
Conclusion:- These are my opinions, nothing more. :)
Harem culture came from arabs - courtesan culture did not. Harem culture, though equally despicable, involved large numbers of women who were supposed to be faithful to one man.
Courtesans, on the other hand, serviced many men. It is recorded how, for example, Muslim nobles would literally queue up to be with one of the most famous courtesans of the Deccan duringg times of celebration.
Also, the role of courtesans was different to that of harem women. Courtesand lived a very public life and were at the very forefront of cultural life, often being great poets, great musicians, great dancers, and great literary scholars in addition to being glorified whores.