Guys,
now days there is a new western term which is used to describe mus-lims. Why can’t Muslim be fully religious, and why does anybody need “moderation” as if being fully religious is a bad thing.
The fact is we are all Mus-lims, and don’t need silly european terms to describe ourself. I think Is-lam is a complete way of life, and we should fully follow it. But yes we can be educated intelligent people.
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*Originally posted by Madhanee: *
A moderate Mu-slim is a refined Mu-slim, who enjoys good things wherever he lives. Someone who lives in 21th century and usually is educated to at least 8th grade level. Everyone else is a plain Muslim.
Also think of Moderate Muslims as Reformed Jews or Anglicans who broke away from Rome.
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Well I am probably more educated most of the retarde liberals on this forum. does that make me a "moderate" ?
and you think the so called "moderate" "mus-lims" are those who are the new age pseudo-Muslims, who broke away from traditial Is-lam ? kind of like mormons in christianity ?
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*Originally posted by Madhanee: *
Paki...sorry i for-got to say one-thing more. and that was, Mad-rassha education does not count.
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well actually I am a University Junior. I am in a CATHOLIC institution by the way. ( if you know what catholic means by the way ) :D
And no I haven't been to Pak-istan in 10 years.
Re: what exactly is a "moderate" Mus-lim ?
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Originally posted by Pak Brave Heart: *
**Why can't Muslim be fully religious....*
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And who gets to determine who is and isn't "fully religious"? What's being fully religious? Praying five times a day and a bit of gossiping on the side?
IMHO no mortal should judge who is and isn't "fully religious" because all of us lack Allah's ability to read into our hearts and consciences. Remember it's only Allah who is 'closer to us than our jugular veins', only He should determine who is and isn't a "fully religious" Muslim.
to me...........moderate islam is a western kind of islam ....where all of moderate muslims totally agree with what interpretation gora,s do of thier religion, if some one has done phd in hadith from camridge university he is big aalim,.........specially if he hates jihad ets...........all others are ignorent mullahs especially if they critisise west for its policy and fanatics if they talk about jihad.....................
btw ...i unfortunately never studied in a madrassah......? so according to ur perception of moderate muslims a charterd accountant (finalist) do come in moderate muslims category..........
Scholars of Islam have been misguiding the communities for centuries.
Who is a moderate Muslim?
Majority of Muslims is moderate, because they do not live an Islamic life in true sense.
Brigade of Bin Laden, Al Qaeda members are true Muslims, follow each and every word of holy Quran in true sense.
Ayattolah Khomeny was a true Muslim. Iran saw the best of Sharryat during his rule, that is immediate police, immediate court and immediate prosecution.
its the short for a moderator who is muslim. as in gupshup mods. :p
Moderate muslim is someone who compromises islam when it suits them.
Because islam encourages technology and innovation this is the internet for example and i am using a computer for those who say islam is for the old times and historical i.e middle ages does'nt really know islam then.
I would say a moderate muslim, Islam in there life as whole is too much so they only want moderation i.e diet islam!
Nobody is perfect but does'nt give the excuse that you should compromise your islam when it suits you or your surroundings such as peer pressure make you compromise.
I would say that a better term for what many label as "moderate Muslim" would be "liberal Muslim" - someone who identifies themselves as Muslim, but who rejects the parts of Islam that he views as being incompatible with a western lifestyle.
To me, a moderate Muslim is one who believes that none is worthy of worship but Allah, who makes an effort to pray 5 times each day, who fasts through Ramadan, who gives zakaat as per his obligations, and who genuinely intends to go on Hajj, or has been on Hajj. Such people make a full effort to apply Islam to their own lives, and to society as a whole.
Beyond this is the final category "extremist Muslims", such as the Al-Khawarij against whom Hazrat Ali (ra) waged jihad, and who in the end murdered Hazrat Ali (ra). Such people call themselves Muslims, but twist the sources of Islam to justify acts that are unislamic. Hazrat Ali's murderer, for example, showed no remorse for his actions, right until his death insited that his murder of the Caliph was justified by Islam.
i think the original term "munafiq" was very degrading so ppl thought "moderate muslim" wud not be so demeaning....
I think that's probably true, maybe we should use the term liberal instead of moderate.
In Halal and Haram (Yusuf Qardawi) it says in the first chapter somewhere:
"So the islamic ummah became an ummah which took the position between the extreme right and left, what Allah Ta'ala describes as:
...the ummah of the middle, the people make for mankind." (surah al_Imran:110 sorry for lousy translation)
So I guess, from what I understand from this, that all good practicing muslims are moderate muslims. Doing nothing more, or nothing less than necesary.
In real sense a Muslim does not need an adjective to describe what sort of Muslim he is.
Moderate Muslim or a liberal Muslim is term mostly used by the western press to describe a Muslim who feels very comfortable in company of ‘Westerns’ who will miss his prayers if due, may be out of embarrassment or he is considerate enough not to upset his friends. Most of time, he will be apologising for Islam to his friends.
He will feel very uncomfortable if happened to be in company of ‘bearded’ Muslims whether they are doctors, professors or accountants.
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*Originally posted by Ibn Sadique: *
Moderate Muslim or a liberal Muslim is term mostly used by the western press to describe a Muslim who feels very comfortable in company of ‘Westerns’ who will miss his prayers if due, may be out of embarrassment or he is considerate enough not to upset his friends. Most of time, he will be apologising for Islam to his friends.
He will feel very uncomfortable if happened to be in company of ‘bearded’ Muslims whether they are doctors, professors or accountants.
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Not entirely true. My kidbrothers best friends are non-muslims, true blue westerners in all senses, except that they respect other cultures.
My kidbrother feels as comfortable with bearded Muslims as with his non-muslim friends, he prays in front of his non-muslim friends, they often go to cinema, and few times, becuase my kidbrother wanted to say his prayers on time, they skipped a movie that started at a time better convienant for them, and instead had to take the movie after that, because my kidbrother had to do namaz. NObody really minded.
My kidbrother is never forced to drink alcohol, never ridiculed for not joining in all that 'cool' stuff, in fact, once an acquaintance died, and unexpected the janazah had to done by everyone at that evening, same time when they had decieded to catch a movie, my kidbrother was hesitant of going, especially becuase he finds death scary, but his non-muslim friend encouraged him to go to the mosque and honnour the deceased one.
He never had to apologise for Islam in front of them.
So then is he a liberal? or a moderate Muslim?
He is a Muslim and acts lik one. Neither liberal nor Moderate.
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*Originally posted by sadya: *
I think that's probably true, maybe we should use the term liberal instead of moderate.
In Halal and Haram (Yusuf Qardawi) it says in the first chapter somewhere:
"So the islamic ummah became an ummah which took the position between the extreme right and left, what Allah Ta'ala describes as:
...the ummah of the middle, the people make for mankind." (surah al_Imran:110 sorry for lousy translation)
So I guess, from what I understand from this, that all good practicing muslims are moderate muslims. Doing nothing more, or nothing less than necesary.
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Sadya
The ummah of middle path is the ummah that does the halal and stays away from haram. The term moderate is the one who compromises somebody already mention this term moderate muslim came from the west and given to the muslims by saying don't take your islams serious chill out and compromise.
Thus have We made of you a Middle Ummah, that you might be witnesses over the people, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves… (al-Baqarah 2:143)
Say: "O People of the Book! Make no excess in your religion, trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by, who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even Way. (al-Ma’idah 5:77)
Muslims are called Ummatan Wasatan. The commentators of the Qur’an explain the word “wasat” as “justly balanced”, “the best (khiyar or khayr)”. (see al-Tabari, al-Qurtubi, Ibn Kathir etc.) Yusuf Ali says: “The essence of Islam is to avoid all extravagances on either side. It is a sober, practical religion.” (note 143 on 2:143)
There is no mention of compromise or moderate. Islam is described as practical you don;t need to take this part and ignore other parts like pick and mix it is simple and clear.
I see, thanks for the explanation, I thought moderate meant something like simple, sober.
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*Originally posted by sadya: *
I see, thanks for the explanation, I thought moderate meant something like simple, sober.
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Sadya
I also had this thought that moderate muslims meant that, benazhir bhutto said something similar many years ago when i was about 13-14 and i thought yeah i agree with that i am moderate muslim also.
Obviously few years later when i find out it was really a term from the west to describe secular muslims then i reject this term.
Re: Re: what exactly is a "moderate" Mus-lim ?
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*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
And who gets to determine who is and isn't "fully religious"?
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I do
Moderate muslim is simply a term that's become necessary to distinguish them from extremist and fundamentalist muslims who resort to terrorism and other illegal techniques to spread their faith or to change those who don't share their extremism
Then the term moderate christians is also needed to distinguish normal christians from the ext-remist fundamentalist evangelical republican christians who are nothing more then bunch of racist neo-colonialist terr-orists who use illigal methods to spread their evil relgion.
A few decades back Alhaj Malik Shahbaz better known as Malcolm x gave the following speech.
There were two types of slaves: the house Negro and the field Negro. The house Negro lived in the house, with Master...they dressed pretty good...they ate good...they ate his food...they lived near their master...
They loved their master more than the master loved himself...they would give their life to save the Master's house quicker than the Master would.
The House Negro, if the Master said "We have a good house"...then the House Negro would say "Yah, WE got a good house here"...whenever the Master said "we" , the House negro would say "we"...that’s how you could tell a house negro....If the master's house caught on fire, the house negro would fight to stop the blaze quicker than the master would...If the master got sick, the house negro would say: "what’s the matter boss? We sick?? WE sick?" He identified himself with his Master more than his Master identified with himself.
If you came to the house Negro and said "let's run away...let's escape...let's separate!" That house negro would look at you and say "Man, you crazy! What you mean SEPARATE? Where is there a better house than this? Where could I wear better clothes than this? Where could I eat better food than this?" That was that house Negro. In those days, he was called a house N-IGGER...and that's what we call him today, because we still got some MODERN HOUSE N-IGGERS running around here today!
That's modern HOUSE NEGROE ...loves his master...he wants to live near him! He'll pay three times as much to live near his Master...and then brag that "I'm the only negro out here! I am the only one on my job! I am the only one in my school." You are nothing but a HOUSE NEGRO. And if someone come up to you and say "lets separate" , you would say the same thing the House negro would have said at the plantation: "What you mean separate? From AMERICA? From this good white man??? Where you gonna get a better job than here??? I ain't left nothing in Africa!" WHY YOU LEFT YOUR MIND IN AFRICA!
ON that same plantation, there was the field Negro...the field Negro,..those were the masses...always more negroes on the field than in the house...the negro in the field caught hell...he ate left-overs...they were gut-eaters...the field negro was beaten morning till night...he lived in a shack...in a hut...he wore old cast-off clothes...and he hated his master...I say, he hated his master...he was intelligent...that House negro loved his master...but the field negro was in the majority...and they hated the master...when the house caught on fire, the field negro didn’t try putting it out...he prayed for a wind, for a breeze! When the master got sick, the field Negro prayed that he died! When someone came to the field Negro and said "let's separate...let's run away", the field Negro didnt ask where...he said "any place is better than here!"
You got field Negroes in America today...I'm a field Negro...the masses are field Negroes...when they see the Master's house on fire, you don't see these field Negroes say "OUR government is in trouble"...the field Negroes say "THE government is in trouble." Imagine a Negro saying "OUR govt"....I even heard a Negro say "OUR astronauts"...They won’t even allow him near the plant, and he says "OUR astronauts! Our navy!" That’s a negro that is OUT OF HIS MIND...OUT OF HIS MIND..
Just as the slave master in that day used TOM, the House Negro, to keep the field negroes in check...the same old slave master today has negroes that are nothing but MODERN UNCLE TOMS to keep you and me in check...to keep us under control...keep as passive and peaceful and non-violent....that is TOM making you non-violent...
If we were to substitute house Muslim for the house Negro it will convey the right meaning of Liberal Muslim. (This includes all of the present Muslim leaders.)
Just before the Taliban/Bush war, to dampen the protests from Muslims, Tony Blair a church-going Christian let it be known that he reads the Quran Daily for inspiration and said the following; “"If you read the Quran, it is so clear...the concept of love and fellowship as the guiding spirits of humanity,"
That was God-sent opportunity for the ‘Liberal’ Muslims in the U.K. One could almost hear their over excited comments.
“Wow Prime Minister Blair reads the Quran daily before going to bed. Wow”
“No Wonder he is so loved, Allah is helping him.”
“He will make a good Khalifa.”
“Insha’Allah, Allah will give him and our boys success against those Muslims in Afghanistan.”