What exactly is a Liberal Muslim?

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Hello,

I read some posts in this forum, where people are claiming to be liberalists when it comes to religion. What is a Liberal Muslim?

As far as my understanding goes of Islam, which isn’t much as you know, you are either a Muslim or a non-Muslim. There is nothing in between. This goes for any religion, where this ‘liberalism’ has been the destruction of christianity, along with some other things.

The Muslims believe that Muhammad came with one religion, or rather revitalised or reinforced a religion, which had been carried through since the time of Adam. Am i right? Please correct me if i’m mistaken.

So this religion was named Islam, and those following Islam are called Muslims, and not Liberal Muslims. Muhammad did not call himself a liberal Muslim … or did he? Therefore, you either follow Muhammad and call yourself Muslim, or you don’t and call yourself whatever.

feel free to comment

2

What is a liberal muslim?

Anything you want him to be.

We will probably have liberal muslims campaigning for Homosexual Rights before too long. What do you think aDbulmaliCk? Is it on the agenda yet?

John,

I read your comments and I have to say you seem to know Islam a lot better than most muslims. A muslim believes in Islam so he looks at life through Islamic perspective so he fits life around his Islamic concept. Life will have to adapt to fit in with Islam.

A liberal will try to change Islam so that it fits in with his liberal ideas, whatever they may be. This is exactly how the Church has been destroyed and is now treated as a joke by ordinairy people living in these countries.

Your comments;

"The Muslims believe that Muhammad came with one religion, or rather revitalised or reinforced a religion, which had been carried through since the time of Adam. Am i right? Please correct me if i'm mistaken.

So this religion was named Islam, and those following Islam are called Muslims, and not Liberal Muslims. Muhammad did not call himself a liberal Muslim ... or did he? Therefore, you either follow Muhammad and call yourself Muslim, or you don't and call yourself whatever."

There is nothing more to add to this really. You have summed it up perfectly.

3

Dear john,
Please ask the question from those who used the term.

In my opinion:

there are MANY ways of interpretting different concepts of religion. those who interprett religion in a liberal way are liberal muslims. Those who interpret religion in a conservative way, are conservative muslims.
whats the problem with that?

A liberal is:
"Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded."

According to my belief, a good muslim must be liberal!

4

Mr Extreme,
You say the Church has been destroyed by reforms -- I say, it has been made strong! Christianity, as practised in the middle ages, was a lot like present day 'Intolerant Fundamentalist Islam': abuses abound by their clergies; stoning, beheading & burning at the stakes for those deemed munafiqen (heretics)or kufr (apostates).
Christianity had no choice but to evolve with the times; and, reformist branches became numerous & popular; In time - so will Islam; Change is inevitable.

P.S. During the Crusades, Muslims were called pagans & infidels by the Christians.

5

Dear Jewels,
There are certain things in Islam that are not subject to liberal interpretation and are as such absolute. Central to them is the aqeedah or belief in the tauheed and bearing testimony that prophet Mohammad (may Allah shower his peace and blessings upon him)is the last messenger of Allah. I can see the hidden agenda behind why you would be favoring a liberal approach to Quran thereby distorting the teachings and interpreting the ayaats to buttress your own beleifs, which by the way, are unanimously declared anti-Islamic and heretic in nature.

I agree with Mr. Extreme's astute analysis of a liberal VS a regular muslim. I think he has correctly identified the real cause of why people like liberalism. Islam, in essence, is submission of one's will to the order of our Creator. There are no IFs and BUTs in Islam. Ofcourse there are exceptions given in case of practices but they are not made as an excuse to shirk one's responsibility of carrying out practices enjoined by Allah through his messenger (peace be upon him).

6

Dear i qadeer,

i prsent one strong evidence to show that there is NO finality of prophethood, and those who do not believe in new messenger will reside in hell:

" O Children of Adam! If there should come to you, messengers from among you, relating
my signs to you, then whosoever is godfearing, and makes amends- no fear shall be on
them, niether shall they sorrow. And those that deny our signs, and wax proud against
them- those shall be the inhabitants of fire, therein dwelling forever"
( the koran, chapter 7, the battlements, verse 36 )

If this is liberalism, then tell me the conservative translation or explanation of this verse. I know your next move. you will knwoingly confuse the discussion be presenting OTHER verse of koran, or OTHER hadith, which will be a shameless show of the fact that you do not have any explanation for this verse.

please be shameful and fear god.

7

Dear friend,
if islam is a one way approach, why are there 73 sects in islam? Does this not show that islam opens doors for different explanations of koran?

8

Dear Jewels,
I will be neither shameless nor fearful in describing your beliefs as contrary to the mainstream Islam. This is not my verdict, but all the other 72 sects declare Ahamadis as heretics and away from the truth. You probably have had that experience with Ali Abbas as well who is a renowned shia on this forum.

Your Mirza's interpretation of Quran is nothing but a conniving conspiracy to snatch away the honor of last prophet from our holy prophet (peace be upon him) which was bestowed upon him by Allah, as stated in the Quran and proved by the Ahadith. It is clear that you will not give up your stubborness to cling to you false beliefs therefore it is necessary to refute them whenever an occassion arises.

9

Dearest Jewels

O Children of Adam! If there should come to you, messengers from among you, relating my signs to you.......
What signs have your Mirza has given in his defence to prove that he is a prophet other than distorted interpretations of Quran and hadith?. Needless to say, prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) was given inumerable signs to prove he was true in his claim. Even his toughest opponents conceded he was truthful and ameen. Are there any such people who say that in favor of Mirza. Please start talking some sense.

10

Qadeer bhaiya, salam... kaisay ho bahi.. welcome back after a long time.

Here is in reply to your comments, though it not related to the theme of this thread.. I appologize.

:::: 1) Firstly, the fatwas of the 72 sects claming Ahmadis as heretic carry no weight. The declaration of majority has no significance at all, remember the day when Rasool Allah receive his first revelation that God has chosen him as the most precious of all His creatures. What was its repercussions? the people living in his house to the very end of the world, turned deadly against him. Were they all true?? ... Only few of those who have been blessed with the divine guidance acknowledged him. Today you only knew his(sa) true claim just because your wisdom accepted him in the light of 1400 years. If you were present at that time, certainly it was very difficult for you to accept him too. So is true with every nominee by Allah and Quran has repeatedly said about the astrayed ones that they have not transferred this non-acceptance to the next generation but its the nature of the non-believers that they don’t accept the Messengers. (Chap 51 Al Dhariyat: vv. 53, 54)

:::: 2) It is erroneous to say that we are snatching away the honor of Holy Prophet(sa) being LAST. Sir, believe me that there is “absolutely no greatness” for being last on the whole canvas of religions. Yet there is great prestige and honor for being highest of all the mankind, highest of all the Prophets, highest of all the Angles, in short highest of all the creatures of the God. Does your interpretation of KHATAM give this much respect to that Marvelous Personality?.... Yet you failed and will fail to support this concept of LAST from any other revelation of Allah Almighty.

:::: 3) Its seems that your religious background is quite defective. Please note that Mohammed(sa) was known as “SADIQ” and “AMIN” before his claimant of Prophethood and he got these ranks because of his inner-personality and not because of his claim. When he announced his appointment of the divine office, most of the mankind accepted him not because of this, but just because of his attributes.

:::: 4) And lastly, no one can perceive the divine signs unless and until one makes his heart receptive for these signs, otherwise these signs turn just lame excuses for him. I can quote hundreds and thousands of signs but they are futile, just because you will eventually deny so the best thing is open up another thread and write all the signs you believe that your Imam Mehdi will possess and I will verify it for this personality.

You people just argue with out any sound reasoning and play around with your beliefs like anything. I wonder why are you afraid of God Almighty. Don’t you think he is alive to guide you on the right path OR you have decided not to pursue the truth?... Fine ! Just stuck to the philosophy of your forefathers and destroy your whole life.

I wish you all the best !

Zalim :::: [email protected]

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited May 30, 1999).]

11

Walaikum Zalim,

Don’t you think he is alive to guide you on the right path OR you have decided not to pursue the truth?
So long as I reject the claim of your false prophet, I think I am safe from being astray.
By the way, if you have any courage of conviction, I challenge you to provide any irrefutable miracles of Mirza, either here or any other thread. Mohammmad (peace be upon him) had a message and personality so powerful that no one dared to resist. Even when some people did they eventually came under the fold of Islam. Some people who were eternally damned by Allah had punishment in the form of Surah Lahab while others like Aby sufyan radhi Allah anho had to accept Islam. Mr Mirza's message has neither the power nor the backing of Allah as even today people do not consider his name worthy of mention.
Trying to compare the circumstances of Mirza with that of prophet Mohammad's is like comparing apples and oranges. Mohammad saw the uplift of Islam even in his own life time while the Ahmadis are still crying to get recognition from the people. Even today, we do not see Ahmadism as a major force to reckon with.
My whole point is that why there is no help of Allah for the Ahmadis like there was for sahabas?. Allah always help the people on haq does not he?. Allah has promised help to the mumineen and if you truly are what you claim then how come you are still being oppressed.

Firstly, the fatwas of the 72 sects claming Ahmadis as heretic carry no weight.

Perhaps not in your imagination. Muslims tend to take this matter rather seriously.

Last but not least, your last paragraph does also, interestingly enough, characterize your own attitude as well. You and your brother Ahmadis are all born-Ahmadis. I would like to see someone who converted to Ahmadism because of its merit and not because of the charms and benefits the Ahmadis use to lure people to their faith.

[This message has been edited by iqadeer (edited May 30, 1999).]

12

Even his toughest opponents conceded he was truthful and ameen. Are
there any such people who say that in favor of Mirza. Please start talking some sense

About this, i will surely soon start a thread possibly tommorow ( translations under way ) where i will show that your own famous muslim scholars believed that mirza sahab was a pious and a righteous persom before he made his claim. this is in exact accordance with what happened to prophet mohammad, and all other prophets.

As for your second point, i posted an essay with strong points in favour of mirza sahab's claim which you were unable to reply to. please open your mind and dont be biased. I will also start threads where i will reveal the signs of the messiah one by one.

13

it is very interesting, and enlightening for the readers to note, that i qadeer has COMPLETELY backed off from his claim that prophet mohammad is the last prophet, and started talking about issues OTHER THAN the real point i challenged him for.

Now some daus later, he will make the same claim in some other thread, and then when i will put on the verse, he will again puprposely change the direction of discussion.

What does this show?

14

As for your second point, i posted an essay with strong points in favour of mirza sahab's claim which you were unable to reply to......

As per my recollection, I did answer all your points to the best of my ability to which you finally replied that I must ask Allah for guidance or make istikhara.

Honestly speaking, you did not have convincing material. Everything that you stated in those posts were either wild guesses or long-drawn conclusions.

I will also start threads where i will reveal the signs of the messiah one by one.

Now we are talking. Hopefully, you will cite from sources that are other than your own since you can understand why we will take anything with a grain of salt about your word for your own self-claimed Mahdi.

Rather than trying to distract the readers by your off-the-wall remarks you should concentrate on the issue at hand. I am looking forward to your replies.

15

Dear qadeer,

i will most certainly quote ONLY those scholars who are respected and considered authentic in YOUR school of thought.

You only replied to ONE of my posts. how grateful i could have been if you had replied to the second one too!

16

Iqadeer,

You are wasting your time trying to debate with these people. They will twist the meaning of verses of the Qur'an and Hadith to mean the exact opposite of it's obvious meaning.

They are quick to "quote" Sunni scholars in attempts to back up their claims, but let them bring a quote from a Sunni scholar that recognises Ghulam Mirza as the Mahdi/prophet/successor to Muhammed(SAW).

They were exposed and they hid low until they thought the coast was clear and now they come slithering out of the woodwork to spread their fitna once more.

OK, if that's how they want it.

17

dear extreme,
i was away because of exams, and i seriously regret not being able to talk to you.

You have said that we twist the meanings of verses. You however, have not been able to write down which verse i distorted, and in which thread that happened. this is a poor and pitiful failure on your part.