What does past relationship (s) that never worked out got to do with marriage issue

Lifestyle Relationships
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Re: What does past relationship (s) that never worked out got to do with marriage iss

Because the second tends to involve lies?

Many people who are ok with relationships before marriage are not ok with lies and deception..

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Re: What does past relationship (s) that never worked out got to do with marriage iss

^
It's deceptive only if she's doing it after they agree to being exclusive. In absence of such an agreement both parties are free to do whatever they want to.

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Re: What does past relationship (s) that never worked out got to do with marriage iss

^Yeah, but don't know if that would be a typical gf/bf relationship.. maybe in the early stages like you've said if they're not exclusive.. or some sort of open relationship lol.. Obviously they exist but I don't personally know of anyone in a typical relationship who's ok with their partner being with other ppl..

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Re: What does past relationship (s) that never worked out got to do with marriage iss

It might not be a bf/gf relationship, but you're sleeping with them still.

25

Re: What does past relationship (s) that never worked out got to do with marriage iss

^I'd interpret "went out with" as being in some sort of relationship.. just sleeping with someone is something different to me.. little or no bond there imo..

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Re: What does past relationship (s) that never worked out got to do with marriage iss

^
That makes a lot more sense.

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Re: What does past relationship (s) that never worked out got to do with marriage iss

Why would it involve lies, going out with someone does not mean being in marriage. And what exactly does a "relationship" mean? It has no rules or set boundaries like marriage.

And in a typical desi society wouldn't going out even with 1 or two men involve lies and deception?

And extrapolating it further, anyone who does not disclose there past to spouse would also be lying and deceiving.

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Re: What does past relationship (s) that never worked out got to do with marriage iss

In my family, both males and females weren't allowed to go out. Most of us never went out. I still have no idea what a date would be like, I could go on dates now, but I'm not interested and always politely refuse. When I visited Kotli, I understood where this idea came from, people there don't accept males and females going out, even if they just talk and have dinner en do nothing else, they still consider it awara behaviour. Same here in the Netherlands with many of our Pakistani family friends, even just taking a walk with a male who is only a friend and nothing more is often considered bad behaviour by them. As a teenager I used to think only Pakistani people in dramay shamay go out on dates and they never go out in real life. I believed this for years.

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Re: What does past relationship (s) that never worked out got to do with marriage iss

You're in the Netherlands though, don't you feel like you want to have that companion in life? Enjoy some of the things the other desi married women get to enjoy. Even if you have a son, he will grow up and lead his own life soon.

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Re: What does past relationship (s) that never worked out got to do with marriage iss

I have both a son and a daughter. They are adults in a few years and I'm hoping they will both find a nice job, home and be happy with an excellent partner in life. For myself, I already have in life what I need, all I miss right now is a full time paid job, nothing else. If one day I might miss having a life companion, then perhaps I'll look for one. We're all different, some of us have certain needs, other don't. I'm fine as long as I can enjoy life, which for me means reading, watching movies, learning something new about Islam or being reminded of something Islamic, watching tv shows, learning languages, etc. These are my needs in life and I already have those. :)

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Re: What does past relationship (s) that never worked out got to do with marriage iss

The point I was trying to make is that if its OK to go out with 1 or 2 men, then its ok to gout with 10 men too, if its not OK to go out with 10 men, then its not OK to go out with 1.

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Re: What does past relationship (s) that never worked out got to do with marriage iss

So It's ok to date? But no shenanigans?

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Re: What does past relationship (s) that never worked out got to do with marriage iss

^I am talking about the inherent double standards in the OPs post who is claiming to be suffering from double standard.

She finds it OK to date a little but not a lot ! I find that odd. Why she find its wrong to judge a person if she dates occasionally while its OK to judge who dates frequently. If dating is wrong its wrong, she shudn't be complaining of people judging.

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Re: What does past relationship (s) that never worked out got to do with marriage iss

It is possible that some people actually have a religious reason behind it. So this response is on that basis. Note that you're mentioning failed relationships in terms of bf/gf and not a failed marriage. Religiously speaking, it's wrong to have such a relationship, regardless of whether you're planning a marriage eventually or not and even if it ends with the guy and girl marrying, it doesn't atone for having had the relationship. I'll just add that on the other hand, when people write off someone for having past relationships on a religious basis, it works both ways--a guy would be rejected for the same reason.

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Re: What does past relationship (s) that never worked out got to do with marriage iss

This just seems like a very black and white way of looking at it because all of us are human and humans will try to conduct their life in the most halal way possible but the ones that do get into a relationship are ones that think it will end in marriage. Not everyone is successful going the arranged marriage route. Even with that you need to speak with the potential just to see if it is possible to see him/her as a long term life partner, in that process the human side of us will a small percentage of the time get emotionally attached or get misguided by people(boys' or girls' side) that seem legitimate but end up scamming. Allah knows that we are human beings that might go off the correct path but as long as we get back on the right path after swerving off because a gap of emotional weakness.

If we could go right to our perfect, great, compatible match, everything could stay as halal as possible but that is not how real life is. We are exposed to the opposite sex before we get married. I'm saying in that it was only personal conversations, spending time together, and chat. We will fall for one along the way. Dealing with it not ending in marriage is hard enough but then we have to deal with holier than thou people that judge us and then we are doomed.

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Re: What does past relationship (s) that never worked out got to do with marriage iss

Erm most people in relationships would expect being faithful as a sort of "rule" of their relationship, certainly if it's meant to be serious.. Another could be not using force during intimacy.. To say there are no rules or boundaries could be considered quite offensive..

As for the second point I think it's becoming quite common for middle and upper-class parents to be ok with their kids seeing someone when they're of marriageable age (usually around uni age or later), this is obviously in families where arranged marriages are not seen as the only option..

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Re: What does past relationship (s) that never worked out got to do with marriage iss

I'm not sure what you mean by relationship here, but I'm considering it anything where they get romantically involved, which can also include the physical aspect, i.e. a bf/gf type relationship as opposed to just seeing if there's potential in them to be your life partner. Even if they think it will lead to marriage it still doesn't make it halal, even though people might use that expectation to justify it. I understand that people can be misled, but the proper way to deal with it is to avoid anything beyond investigation/due diligence until there's an actual marriage. That's how you keep it halal and it's very possible. I can also speak from experience--in my case, we did get to talk and ask each other questions before deciding that we wanted to marry. Once we both agreed, then we avoided talking to each other until the nikah was done.

I'm not judging anybody here, but just providing a perspective that people may want to avoid those who've been in extramarital relationships when it comes to marriage prospects. And that there could be this religious basis behind it. This works both ways, i.e. both girls and guys could be rejected on the basis of a previous extramarital relationship.

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Re: What does past relationship (s) that never worked out got to do with marriage iss

Don't agree with that. Neither relationship has any particular rules nor a typical desi family expect their girls to be in relationship with men without marriage.

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Re: What does past relationship (s) that never worked out got to do with marriage iss

In my family, even while living in the Netherlands, it certainly was not considered normal for females to have relationships with males without marriage.

As a 17 year old, in the '90s, I had two (Dutch) male best friends, they were my silly class fellows with whom I enjoyed not having to pretend that I was not silly. I was never in love with them, as far as I know they weren’t in love with me either, it was nothing more than friendship. Yet even that was frowned upon by not just my family, but also fellow Pakistanis (not just family friends, even people we just knew a bit) and even some Indian acquaintances. A love relationship with any male (or female for that matter) was out of question. At that age, I wasn’t ready and I wasn’t interested in such relationships with males, so I didn’t think about it being right or wrong. I have never met any Pakistani Muslim family in the Netherlands (and growing up here, I have known many) who was allright with their females having love relationships with males before marriage.

I agree that it isn’t Islamic to spend a lot of time completely alone with a male who you are, perhaps, going to marry. Talking is allowed of course, even from some ahadith it’s clear how people used to talk and know each other in the time of Mohammed (saww) before marriage. Talking with someone else present is halal. Both males and females are allowed to know the person they might marry and then decide if they want to go through with it. That is real Islam. Real Islam isn’t cruel to have people being thrown into marriages with people they don’t know and who might not be a good match.

I can’t find the ahadith I read about this, it has been years, but this is what I found on internet:

A long as there is a Mahram with you there is no problem. A Mahram is needed so you are not alone because when a girl and boy are alone a third person will be present and that will be Shaytan. He can encourage you to do haram.
Source: Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 3118Narrated by Umar ibn al-Khattab
*The Prophet (saws) said, “Whenever a man is alone with a (non-mehram)woman, the Shaytaan makes a third.”

*Al-Mughira reports that when he got engaged to a woman the Prophet (pbuh) says,
"Look at her, for it is more likely to create affection and consent between you.”
[Narrated by At- Tirmidhi and An-Nasa’i]
*

This is part of an interesting article, found here:****http://www.taqwamagazine.com/quran-hadith-about-non-mahram-relationships/
***“Allah wishes to lighten (the burden) for you; and man was created weak (cannot be patient to leave sexual intercourse with woman)”. (4:28)
*By this ayah, a fact none can deny, men always search for love and it is natural. However in some cases it is so disastrous that it may lead to illegal sexual intercourse (Zina).

This quote is from: *Can a Man See a Woman before Marriage? - Islam Question & Answer (interesting to read the entire information on that page)
**Al-Shaafa’i (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “If he wants to marry a woman, he is not allowed to see her without a headcover. He may look at her face and hands when she is covered, with or without her permission. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): ***‘… and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent…’ [al-Noor 24:31]. He said: ‘The face and hands.’” (*al-Haawi al-Kabeer, 9/34).

**