Can anyone explain this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1480000/1480302.stm
What can I say, its not something you'd expect to see, but we are talking about a rural village.
Two thoughts on this one. First of all, if the couple were muslims, what about the punishment for Zina wich in this case would be 100 lashings each.
Secondly, how many muslims with thier origins from India think along similar lines? Here in the UK, Ive heard of a controversy amongst a Pakistani family where a girl from a Jat family married a Lohare and everyone is upset about it, despite the fact they married, performed the Nikah, etc.
I think there are lessons for us all to be learnt from this.
Our Nabi (saw) who is the best of Allah's creation was an illiterate goat-hearder and look at what Allah blessed him with?
Alpha1,
Thanks of the reply. You are very right about the problems we see being Muslim. The illiteracy is to be blamed for this.
It is understandable in Islam what is allowed is what isn’t. Zana is haram as with out the Niqah you are brothers and sisters. And these days you can see all the problem people can face when they start a relationship, which will be the Dunyavi, prove of what Islam has taught us.
I am not in the favor of people marrying their daughters and sons in their own families as it creates lot of genetically problems. But I don’t see the reason of killing some one just because they are in love with some one of different Class. We have lot of examples in England and US of Asians marrying Gori. Islam permit us to do so with some rules and regulation. But there is no concept of Class in Islam.
The above thread sums up the Hindu faith in it's totallity.
BARBARIC AND MANMADE.
Ibrahim says; They are following hindus laws as prescribed in their scriptures.
“An adulterer shall be made to pay the highest amercement if he has had connection with a woman of his own caste; for adultery with women of a lower caste, the second amercement; the same (fine is ordained) for a bestial crime committed with a cow. ** He who has had connection with a woman of one of the lowest castes, shall be put to death.** For a bestial crime committed with cattle (other than cows) he shall be fined a hundred Karshapanas.” – Visnusmrti 5:40-44.
[quote]
Originally posted by Alpha1:
**
Secondly, how many muslims with thier origins from India think along similar lines? **
[/quote]
Your lessons starts with not pointing fingers. I don't think your comment on Indian Muslims was necessary. I understand that this is a Paki site and there is an immense hatred for Indians whether they are our fellow brothers or sisters in Islam or not. What does our religion matter as long as we have our wonderful nationalism for our beloved Pakistan, right folks?
[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
The above thread sums up the Hindu faith in it's totallity.
BARBARIC AND MANMADE.
**
[/quote]
Sholay,
What's the deal with all this finger pointing? It really makes people look at Muslims as people full of hate. Every religion has something good about it. I've heard that even Hinduism came from Allah but was changed over thousands of years. Please let go of some of this hate.
Anyone saw this? from the website..
The Indian Government claims that the caste system is based on social rather than biological differences and therefore does not fall under the ambit of racial discrimination and intolerance.
Read the following very carefully....
Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru (India's Prime Minsiter 1947-64) in ‘The Discovery of India,’ 1946, p. 218, 225.
“The impact of the invaders from the north-west and of Islam on India had been considerable. It had pointed out and shone up the abuses that had crept into Hindu society - the petrification of caste, untouchability, exclusiveness carried to fantastic lengths. The idea of the brotherhood of Islam and the theoretical equality of its adherents made a powerful appeal especially to those in the Hindu fold who were denied any semblance of equal treatment.”
Muni:
Rational thinking has no place in this forum. No use explaining these things at this place. In my experience here, it is always a Hindu thing.
If that family had been a Hindu, they will say all Hindoos are sick. If it is a Muslim they will say, it is because they live with Hindus.
They forget that such social disasters occur in every part of the world including their own.
If a hindu soldier fights in the front against them, it is Hindus Vs. Muslims. If a muslim soldiers fight, they coo, Hindus send Muslims against muslims.
It is not their fault. It is the quality of education (filled with hatred) they were fed with, in their schools. Western educated Pakistani Muslims don't feel this way. They understand the reality. Read the thread on "Pakistani History" <- Every Pakistani behaviour is easily explained.
I am hurt to say this, but Many Pakistanis here have only one identity - "Haters of India!". So sad that they don't have any pride on their own.
yeah right, like Indians here don’t express there patriotism to Hindia, intentions of Pakistan + Islam ‘slanderings’, express hate against Islam etc.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/disgust.gif
beleive it or not, its same on both sides. both sides hate each other, no matter who claims to be looking at THE REALITY.
We oughta be Changez like, don’t we?
- [quote] * The above thread sums up the Hindu faith in it's totallity.
BARBARIC AND MANMADE.
[/quote]
Shouldn't it be possible to have a rational discussion on this forum without degrading another individual's religion. A sole thread/article will never sum up the Hindu faith in its entirety; I am no expert regarding Hinduism but I know this much - it is a complex religion that should NEVER be reduced to something it is not.
I will be the first to acknowledge that casteism is horrific but there is much, much more to the Hindu religion than casteism. As dearly as those of us who are Muslims hold our religion and as dearly as we view Allah's Teachings in the Quran, the life lessons that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) taught us via his words and deeds, why don't we try to understand that others too - whether they be Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, etc. - also love their religion? What is to be gained from degrading someone else's religion except to cause needless hurt to someone?
Nadia and Muni...Sane people you like inspire me to be here!
Some people here should understand...other religions are also as sacred as Islam.
[This message has been edited by kumarakn (edited August 09, 2001).]
A Hindu is a Hindu no matter where he/she is from, and similarily a Muslim is a Muslim no matter where he/she is from.
The reason why I stated that Hindusim is Barbaric and Manmade is because IT IS and secondly, there are a number of Non Muslim Guppies on this Forum (they know who they are) that stereotype and prejudge the Islamic faith at a drop of a hat!
I couldn't care less if Pakistanis and Indians disliked each other because that really isn't anything to do with me.
Whoever wants to be an extreme patriot, then please be my guest!
Finally, Allah says to all Muslims:
060.001 O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends (or protectors),- offering them (your) love, even though they have rejected the Truth that has come to you.
003.028 Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers..
I'm not gonna be a Hypocrite and keep shut pretending to be a liberal or politically correct by not stating the facts.
If someone feels that certain views are stereotypically incorrect, then it is their job to prove otherwise.
In the meantime, 'what goes around, comes around'.
Nadia, I feel the same way! Good to know that people can be rational.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by Muni (edited August 09, 2001).]
What those *******s at BBC won't do to humiliate an eastern religion or country or culture. They find some remote village that no one's heard off, find something that they did and tell the whole world about it. Of course they won't tell about the human rights violations in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, and other American/Western slave states, which are far worse than in India. Don't forget that these are the same people who relate honor killings to Islam as well.
[quote]
Originally posted by Salman:
What those ****s at BBC won't do to humiliate an eastern religion or country or culture. They find some remote village that no one's heard off, find something that they did and tell the whole world about it. Of course they won't tell about the human rights violations in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, and other American/Western slave states, which are far worse than in India. Don't forget that these are the same people who relate honor killings to Islam as well. *
[/quote]
Actually it was first reported in Indian news papers
just makes it easier for the BBC and other western media. At least the Indian papers reported it without the fear of being butchered to death, unlike in those western slave states in the Middle east.
**Hindusim teaches to KILL, those that fail to submit to their ways BUT having sex with animals is pardonable!! **
Hinduism states that sex with animals is not nearly as bad as sex with a (human) outcaste; for sex with a cow or some other animal, it’s pardonable, but for sex with a (human) outcaste, a twice-born Hindu should be executed:
“An adulterer shall be made to pay the highest amercement if he has had connection with a woman of his own caste; for adultery with women of a lower caste, the second amercement; the same (fine is ordained) for a bestial crime committed with a cow. He who has had connection with a woman of one of the lowest castes, shall be put to death. For a bestial crime committed with cattle (other than cows) he shall be fined a hundred Karshapanas.” – Visnusmrti 5:40-44.
Just as incest is not an infrequent theme in Hindu scripture, sex with animals is also not an uncommon motif in Hinduism. Indeed, great rishis (sages) have been born through bestiality (ref. Manusmrti 10:69-72.). The rishi Rsyasrnga had a deer for a mom. Furthermore, Pandu (the dad of the five famous Pandava princes) had accidentally killed a rishi who was in animal form having sex with a deer (ref. Mahabharata Adiparvan 95.). Hindu queens and other Aryan women of diverse provinces in ancient Hindustan used to have sex with dead horses during the Asvamedha sacrifice, and Lord Rama’s mom Kausalya spent an entire night having sex with a carcass of a sacrificial horse in Valmiki Ramayana (ref. Ramayana 1:13:24-33.). Bestiality depictions have also been found at the Khajuraho temple-complex in Hindustan.
Hindu girl suicide: parents, Mahasabha chief arrested
News Bureau • Ahmedabad• August 11•
In a major development on Friday night, Khadia police picked up the president of Hindu Mahasabha, Dashrath Patel, and parents of Bharti Barot alias Firdaus Banu, who allegedly set herself ablaze at the Mahasabha office on Thursday afternoon.
Barot’s father and mother, Kanubhai and Kantaben, were arrested along with her uncle, Magonbhai Barot, all on the charges of abetting to commit suicide.
On Saturday morning, a high-level police team led by DCP (zone-III), R D Makadia, went to the spot again along with forensic experts for another round of investigations.
The accused will be produced before the Special Leave Court on Saturday when the police will seek their remand for further investigation.
“We are also checking how Dashrath behaved with the girl and if there was any sort of instigation from his side leading to this shocking incident,” the DCP added.
** Bharti Barot, a 19-year-old girl who had embraced Islam to get married to one Salim Shaikh from the same area in Sabarmati of Ahmedabad, reportedly set herself ablaze at the Hindu Mahasabha office in the city’s Raipur area on Thursday afternoon.
But mystery surrounds her death, as police are confused about how Bharti managed to get kerosene at the Hindu Mahasabha office, even as Mahasabha activists including president Dashrath Patel were present at the time. **
Even her parents, who had taken Bharti to the Mahasabha for “counselling”, pleaded ignorance about her committing suicide.
Bharti was in love with Salim, who hails from the Bakra Mandi area of Sabarmati, for the last few years, despite strong objection from her parents.
She was apparently tortured mentally and physically several times by her parents for moving around with Salim, but to no avail.
On July 11, she eloped with Salim without saying anything to her parents, converted to Islam and got married in a local mosque before finally registering the marriage in a city court.
The very next day, she sent their marriage documents to her parents by post.
“On July 12, her father Kanubhai Barot lodged a complaint of illegal confinement against Salim with us and we started search operations,” said Inspector of Sabarmati police station, P S Mehra.
She was found on August 6 and police took her to Sabarmati police station from where she was sent to the Women’s Home in Odhav, run by the state government.
“But surprisingly, her parents managed to get her from the Home without any instructions from us or any court order, which is something queer,” Mehra said.
Bharti was then brought to the Hindu Mahasabha office in Raipur by her parents for a “purification” (Shuddhikaran) ceremony that was supposed to take place on Thursday afternoon in the presence of Mahasabha activists and Dashrath Patel.
“Before the function, she was asked by Dashrath to take a bath in the Mahasabha office bathroom, where she ultimately set herself ablaze,” said DCP (zone-III), R D Makadiya.
When asked about how Bharti had managed to get kerosene and matchsticks in the bathroom of the Mahasabha office, Makadiya only said: “We have to check.”
Local residents, however, said they did not hear any screaming or smell anything burning. Police are suspicious as the area where the Mahasabha office is located is very crowded.
“We will find out after the forensic examination and post mortem report,” said Makadiya.
Meanwhile, her father, Kanubhai, known as a VHP activist, showed no remorse over the incident. “She did it as per her own will,” he said.
Secretary of VHP, Karnavati city, Jaideep Patel said: “Perhaps she committed suicide because of tortures by the Muslim boy and his friends. Muslims here have been creating lot of problems with Hindu girls.”
But, he declined from adding more about the incident, saying: “We are acquiring details.”
Khadia police has also registered a case following the “suicide”, city police sources said. The Commissioner of Police, P C Pande, also visited the spot on Thursday evening.
The dead body of the victim has been sent for post mortem, police sources said. TIMES NEWS NETWORK
Ibrahim - Just a quick question... this is not directly related to your article, but do you believe that no Muslim today has ever deliberately committed a serious wrong in her/his life?
[quote]
Originally posted by Nadia_H:
*Ibrahim - Just a quick question... this is not directly related to your article, but do you believe that no Muslim today has ever deliberately committed a serious wrong in her/his life? *
[/quote]
I think many 'Muslims' have committed very serious and heinous crime, some used Islam as a tool to defend their wrong doings. There are evil creatures in all religions. We should not 'stereotype' a religion on basis of an individual follower's acts / deeds.
However, if the so called 'priest', or the 'authorities' of the religion prove it as part of religion / faith then that should be questionable.
We oughta be Changez like, don't we?