Shaheen G....u r exactly right....
"......trust few.....?
beware of the rest...??
channmahi says
“>>THE ANSWER IS NO IT DOESN’T UNTIL THEY REACH THAT AGE WHEN THEY CAN DECIDE WHATS GOOD AND WHATS NOT ON THEIR OWN! <<
hehehe, and what is that age? Masooma I have seen people die at the age of 85 and still not be able to decide how they want their steak..rare or welldone, heaven and hell is too big a issue to decide for them.”
As my dear Rani always says, “I SEE THIS DISCUSSION GOING NO WHERE, SO I REST MY CASE”
HEHEH
Masooma
Asalam-u-Alaikum
Tanha Tanha sorry i didn’t read your post , and now when i did, here is what i have to say about your question. You said,
“if i ask u Masooma G…??? r there any muslims who r doing things which GOD tells us to do…i have seen people DRINKING after that they still say we r muslims…i have seen people doing things which i even feel ashamed to say..and they still say they r muslims…”
Dear, don’t just talk about muslims, EVERY relegion is going through the same problem, guess what, i have seen muslims who can’t read Quran?i don’t have any right to declare them non-muslims, because what makes them muslim is “LA-ILA-HA-ILLALLAH”, THEIR BELIEF THAT there is only ONE ALMIGHTY GOD, whenever they pray, they ask for help to THAT ALMIGHTY GOD, and this makes them muslim.Now Islam asks us to live a civilized way, educate ourselves, these are the morals tought by ISLAM which will make muslims a symbol of Example for others. This DOES NOT have to do anything with the Imaan(faith) of those muslims.
Talking about Hindus, i’m talking about orthodox Hindus, how many of them follow the RELEGIOUS RULE, to set the women on fire when her husband dies??I don’t think they do that anymore??But does that mean they are not HINDU, and their belief that they will become some very high ranked person in their next life will be fulfilled?No dear, they still are hindus, and their imaginary beliefs still exits in their minds.
Ok now you tell me, why would a kafir will go to jannah, because according to their beliefs they will be reborn, in different beings, so you are asking wether they will go to jannah or dozakh WHEN THEY DON’T EVEN BELIEVE IN THE EXISITENCE OF WORLD HEREAFTER!
Dear, don’t waste time argueing over issue which doesn’t have a solid base, Kafir people don’t belive in ONE GOD, they don’t believe in hell or heaven because when they die, they think they will come back!
This was about the old generation of non-muslims, but the new generation, almost all of then don’t really believe in worshipping idols, they even don’t know the major teachings of Hindusim, i know more than they do, but a new concept developed in their minds is that YES there is ONE being, behind creating all this universe, maybe ONE or MANY, but hell and heaven, its all crap!
This is what i heard almost 90% of non-muslims saying. Come on, now you tell me, if you don’t belive that there is such place as hmmmm Africa, would you ever go there?NO! WELL YEA MAYBE IF SOMEONE EDUCATE YOU AND TELL YOU, YES THERE IS A PLACE CALLED AFRICA, YOU WANT TO GO?AND THIS LIGHTS A HOPE IN YOU AND YOU START WILLING TO DISCOVER THAT PLACE!(NOW THIS WILL BE ANOTHER STORY)
Every thing above goes for sikhs too, i have seen many Sikhs who refuse to wear turben and carry sword everywhere they go
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And their beliefs are similar to those of Hindus.So…you know
I’m not living in a muslim country, so everyday i meet people with different people,so everything i wrote, i’m talking about my personal experience , and some FACTS!
So agree or disagree, FACTS WILL REMAIN THE FACTS!
End of discussion!
Masooma
"Islam (which is here since Adam) is the only ticket to Jannah provided the person has been practicing true Islam!"
i agree!
but what is ISLAM? ISLAM IS BELIEVING IN ONE GOD!! ONLY ONE GOD!! the stronger our belief is, the easier it gets to get in jannah!
Insh-Allah all muslim ummah, who believes in ALMIGHTY, and considers Hazrat Muhammad(s.a.w)HIS last messenger, will go to Jannah!
Ameen!
Masooma
This is Islam!
[quote]
Originally posted by Masooma:
**
Talking about Hindus, i'm talking about orthodox Hindus, how many of them follow the RELEGIOUS RULE, to set the women on fire when her husband dies??I don't think they do that anymore??But does that mean they are not HINDU, and their belief that they will become some very high ranked person in their next life will be fulfilled?No dear, they still are hindus, and their imaginary beliefs still exits in their minds.
**
[/quote]
masooma, stick to ur agenda of enlightening muslims than getting in issues u know nothing about. i know u are 18 yr. old and very enthusiastic to go to heaven. but keep things to what u know.
Dear ZZ,
Thank you very much for your kind advice, but Alhamdulillah i do know what i am talking about and certainly you do not like what im talking about, but i have no problem with that because many others (non-muslims) won’t like what i’m talking about, i was aware of this before i posted my reply, and trust me on that, I DO KNOW WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT. THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN SIR, FOR YOUR KIND ADVICE.IT WAS MY PLEASURE TO RECIEVE YOUR ADVICE.
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And yes, i’m very much looking forward to go to heaven, i need your and others prayers for that. May GOD lead me the right path. Ameen.
Sincerely
Masooma
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[This message has been edited by Masooma (edited July 30, 2000).]
And by the way, i'm not 18, my age is an unsolved mystery, and i will appriciate if you ignore what my age is and talk TO THE POINT,about whatever we discuss,because my age has nothing to do with my experience and what i know.
Thank you sir for spending some time to read my reply.
Have a GOOD DAY,
Masooma
Masooma,
You wrong about Hinduism, please read Hindu scripture and quote from them to support your claims about Hinduism...what you are saying is completely wrong.
Rani,
i would be glad if you provide me the right philosophy about Hindu believe in hell and heaven, and the philosophy about re-birth?
Thank you
Masooma
Talking about Hindus, i'm talking about
Mosooma
==========================================================================================
orthodox Hindus, how many of them follow the RELEGIOUS RULE, to set the women on fire when her husband dies??I don't think they do that anymore??But does that mean they are not HINDU, and their belief that they will become some very high ranked person in their next life will be fulfilled?No dear, they still are hindus, and their imaginary beliefs still exits in their minds.
==========================================================================================
You are the one who brought in Hinduism in this thread...don't bring it in if you are not clear about its philosphy. If you want to quote and put Hindusim down support what you are saying with with quotes form Hindu scriptures....not just what you think. I don't have time to do your work...you are the one posting stuff about Hinduism and you should be able to support what you are posting.
Oh my GOd!
I don’t understand that people argue with some one and do not provide any thing to support their case…
What does that mean??? And what should We think???
My dear friends,
I have a number of observations to make, I encourage your indulgence & comments:
1) One does not worship Allah/God because of rewards of Paradise or fear of Hell; One worships Allah because He is worthy of being worshipped!
2) Hindus worship the spirit within the Idol not the idol itself. I suggest my muslims friends get this in proper perspective. This spirit is similar to the Light/Noor of Allah.
3)Shaheen & Masooma have been trumpeting:
"Islam is the only ticket to Jannah provided the person has been practicing true Islam!"
So, which is true Islam? Let me guess, each of you think it is their firqa and are prepared to kill the other over it.
A muslim that believes in Allah, Final Revelation & Final Prophet; observes requirements stipulatied by "his/her" school of thought is a true muslim. Give up this contention about "only one" being true. If this were the case, you two are sure candidates for hell!
4) Masooma states:
"Kafir's are the people who do not believe in ONE GOD....but christains , jews etc are "AHL-E KITAAB"(PEOPLE BELIEVING ON HOLY BOOKS)"
My dear Masooma, The Final Revelation abrogated all religions of Ahle Kitab and they are commiting Kuffar and, as per teachings of 'extremist Islam' their abode will be hell.
5) Masooma states:
"WORSHIP THE CREATOR, NOT THE CREATION! REMEMBER THAT!"
My dear silly sister,
Hindus worship the spirit of God which is inside the created idol. Pls refer to #2 above; and, do REMEMBER this for future reference.
May I ask you few questions:
i) Do the shias- ismailis- sufis commit shirk or idol worship when they seek intercession:"O our master and guide! We seek your help to reach Allah."
ii)similarly, all three venerate Hazrat Ali: The shias hang/carry imaginary portrait of Hazrat Ali(as); ismailis carry pictures of aga khan; the sufis venerate their murshids from Ahle bayt. Is this shirk/idol worship? Can you explain the significance of this for me?
6) Similarly, the sunnis venerate sunnah of prophet Muhammed(saw)and have made sunnah equal or greater than Allah's quran. Is this shirk? does this association make for idol worship? We have had a rather lengthy discussion on this under the thread:THE STATUS OF THE SUNNAH...!!
first tanha tanha jee, my answer is still the same on ur question, that wether the other poeple come in the hell or heaven, only Allah has to decide it.
and we pray not to come in heaven but as respectfull shaheen quoted, we should pray to be thankfull to Allah.
and** Mr./Ms or Mrs Shaheen**, i think i have expressed myself not quite right, but the reallity is that i wanted to say the same thing, that our Prophet(saww) prayed not for heaven or hell but in love to Allah.
and in the other aspect, Islam is really the ticket to heaven(i am sorry for not understanding, which islam was meant in this topic: islam of all the prophets or islam of mullahs todays)
u are right and u got it really. i have to try to be some detailled. thanx for ur comment.
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**tanha tanha **now this topic is burning!! i am the 31. one!!
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beyond the horizont°°°my heart gone
oooooooooh....!!!comm'n ppl what's this u people like to fight more than discussing
islam is very simple and understan...able religion....!!
masooma G i am also living in non-muslim country that's why i started to think about these ppl....if u r in muslim country u w'll just think about islam whole life.....!!!
ASHIK G if u say islam is not a ticket to heaven or hell....u r wrong...!!Cos it says in islam that at the end after all punishments muslims w'll sent into heaven but what's about those non muslims that was the question........????
Rani said:
"You are the one who brought in Hinduism in this thread...don't bring it in if you are not clear about its philosphy. If you want to quote and put Hindusim down support what you are saying with with quotes form Hindu scriptures....not just what you think. I don't have time to do your work...you are the one posting stuff about Hinduism and you should be able to support what you are posting"
Oh okay! what a response!! hmmm so let me put my question like this, don't provide me any evidence from hindu philosophy for my sake, BUT provide the hindu philosophy supporting your claim that i'm wrong about what i said about hinduism!DON'T DO MY WORK, BUT DO YOURS ATLEAST!JUST BY SAYING "MASOOMA YOU ARE WRONG", I'M SORRY BUT NOT IMPRESSIVE AT ALL! if you can't do that, then kindly don't interfere the discussion.And no i didn't bring hinduism in this thread, this thread was about non-muslims (which includes hinduism)so stop accusing me for something i'm not responsible for.
Thank you.
Now dear faceup,
First of all, i'm glad to see you once again with some very interesting issues you raised here.
"2) Hindus worship the spirit within the Idol not the idol itself. I suggest my muslims friends get this in proper perspective. This spirit is similar to the Light/Noor of Allah"
Bhai ji, so what you are saying is, Hindus are not worshipping idols but the spirit they believe is inside those idols,which is NUR-E-ILAHI.
ACHA??REALLY??GOSH, HOW CAN YOU SAY SUCH THING BROTHER?I agree that GOD is everywhere, in everything he made, we can feel his presense, but that DOESN'T mean we start worshipping his creation?for e.g elephant, cows they are not worthy to be worshiped, YES GOD MADE THEM, so its the GOD who should be worshiped not his creation.
Tell me what, do you know, some hindus even worship garbege???sometimes trees?? Come on faceup bro, don't tell me they do that because they believe NU-R-E-ILAHI is inside them.Doesn't make any sense WHAT SO EVER!
"Islam is the only ticket to Jannah provided the person has been practicing true Islam!"
Yes Islam is, but If you talk about only Islam itself, then its only BELIEVING IN ONE ALMIGHTY GOD! this was the relegion of first man on earth. True Islam includes the morals tought by Quran and hadith,and that makes muslim ummah as an example to the man kind!
YOU SAID:
So, which is true Islam? Let me guess, each of you think it is their firqa and are prepared to kill the other over it.
No you are wrong, how many times did you see me argueing with another muslim over my beliefs?I tried to have a decent conversation with NYahmedi but, i'm afraid some people just started taking it personal.
Dear no one can MAKE the other change their believes by FORCE! maybe they appear to agree with you if being abused, but still they may think the way they use to, so force is never the solution.
You said:
"Kafir's are the people who do not believe in ONE GOD....but christains , jews etc are "AHL-E KITAAB"(PEOPLE BELIEVING ON HOLY BOOKS)"
My dear Masooma, The Final Revelation abrogated all religions of Ahle Kitab and they are commiting Kuffar and, as per teachings of 'extremist Islam' their abode will be hell.
Faceup, no one can decide who will go to hell or heaven, its upto Allah! Ahl-e Kitab people do believe in the existence of ONE ALMIGHTY GOD, i have many christain friends, jewish friends, i never saw they considering a hand made idol as the spirit holder of GOD,and worshiping it. Well actually catholic people do that, but not all, everyone of them have different view about GOD, so each individual is responsible for his/her belief,majority believs in ONE GOD! Yes by considering Jesus His son ,they do commit a KUFR, but not all of them believe the same way! Majority of Christains in Pakistan don't think in that way.But my point is, THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN KAFIRS AND AHL-E-KITAB
5) Masooma states:
"WORSHIP THE CREATOR, NOT THE CREATION! REMEMBER THAT!"
YOU SAID:
My dear silly sister,
Hindus worship the spirit of God which is inside the created idol. Pls refer to #2 above; and, do REMEMBER this for future reference.
My dear over confident smart brother,
Hindus do worship the spirit inside the idols,BUT the spirits they believe inside the idols are different from each other, some of them are males, and some are femals, some and monkeys and etc!
AND I'M SORRY TO SAY BUT THE ALMIGHTY DID CREATE ALL THESE THINGS, AND HE DOESN'T NEED SOME MAN MADE IDOLS TO SYMBOLIZE HIM,AND BEING WORSHIPED BECAUSE HE IS EVERYWHERE!AND ONLY ONE! NOT A "HE", NOT A "SHE", AND NOT A "IT"!
You ask me:
") Do the shias- ismailis- sufis commit shirk or idol worship when they seek intercession:"O our master and guide! We seek your help to reach Allah."
We do not need any source to reach GOD, we can communicate(in an indirect manner) with HIM by our selves. BUT we can't say anything untill we ask them(Shia-Ismailis) what makes them say that.I have seen muslims go to the Makbara's and perform SAJOODS and pray to the PEERS-FAKEERS. I don't do that because my way of thinking is different,but i can't call them non-muslims either, who knows what their faith is.
Why did you bring muslims sects in this discussion, it was about hell and heaven concerning NON-MUSLIMS. Start another thread with your questions.
Tanha Tanha you said:
masooma G i am also living in non-muslim country that's why i started to think about these ppl....if u r in muslim country u w'll just think about islam whole life.....!!!
You asked a good question dear, but if the non-muslims don't believe in the existence of hell and heaven,what can we say......?
Masooma
[This message has been edited by Masooma (edited July 31, 2000).]
Rani,
If Masooma has made a claim that you believe is incorrect, why not provide the correct answer?
Masooma clearly asked you for information. If you are sincere about participating in a discussion and want to accomplish something positive out of it....what's stopping you from providing the truth?
You don't want people to post inaccurate information yet you aren't willing to provide accurate info either. Why should anyone believe you are right and she isn't?
Munza,
Mosooma should not post Relgious Rules about Hinduism without checking them first, she making radiculous assumptions:
Please read following for gaining understanding re Hinduism:
Hinduism - the Religion
Hinduism is not a religion in the strict sense of the word. It is recommendation for living a disciplined, pure and blissful life needed for God realization. The word religion comes from the Latin "religio" which means binding the soul back to God. Other religions have strict laws and back to God. Other religions have strict laws and beliefs to attain this God realization. Hindus, however, do not believe in such strict laws. The desire to free one's self from worldly bondage and to obtain a better present and next life through proper karma (actions) in the present life is the basis of the Hindu way of life. Your karma (good or bad actions) returns to you with results and act as your teacher to guide you in the right directions in the life. The guidelines for better living to achieve such a liberation (moksha) was revealed directly by God to our ancient sages who used to meditate constantly for the welfare of all human beings. These revelations are the contents of the Vedas, our fundamental scripture. It is also called sanatana dharma, an eternal discipline of life or Vedic dharma, the proper way of living based on Vedas. Hindus believe that every human being is divine by nature and the purpose of life is to expose that divinity to the fullest possible extent. Based on the Vedic recommendations, Hindus believe in one formless and all pervading God called Brahma who is the creator of the universe and represents the supreme truth.
For all practical purposes, in the modern times the Hindu way of life is called Hinduism. It is the oldest living religion on earth. Because of its basic philosophies the Hindu religion can be considered a universal religion.
The main difference between Hinduism and other religions is that Hinduism did not evolve out of the teachings of any one saint, prophet or messiah. Instead, the vedic thoughts were obtained by various sages over the centuries. A very big difference is that Hinduism teaches reincarnation, or rebirth of soul. Moreover, Hinduism is a very accommodating and compassionate religion. Coexistence with other religions with respect and humbleness is the core of the Hindu way of life. Hindus not only love their neighbors but they also love and pray for everyone. A Hindu life is meant for humanity and is achieved through uplifting of one's morality. Unlike people of other religious faiths Hindus regard the mother, the father, the teacher and all their guests as God.
Reincarnation
The word reincarnation literally means coming again into physical body. According to our scriptures, a soul passes into a body at birth and migrates into another body at death. The change of the bodies is just like putting a new garment and discarding it when it is worn out. The kind of body the soul enters into at death determined by one's actions (karma) in present life. A person's karma determines in what form he will reappear. He may come back in a higher (human) or lower (animal) life form. Good karma in the present life leads to a better next life and bad karma in the present life leads to a worst next life. This cycle of rebirth continues until one achieves liberation from worldly bondage (moksha). At the liberated stage a soul becomes godly and reincarnation stops.
Hindu gods and goddesses
Hindus believe in only one formless and all-pervading, all-existing, and all-blissful God. That formless God, however, can best be realized by concentrating on various forms of ideal personalities as recorded in the scriptures. In other words, the Hindu religion is flexible and provides many ways to develop one's spiritual ideas in order to suit individual needs. "Unity in the diverse plan of nature" is recognized in the Hindu faith. Just as people tailor clothes to fit their needs, Hindus have different gods and goddesses for their religious needs. All these gods and goddesses resemble humans, animals or natural forces such as wind, water, fire, sun, and moon; each has different powers to bless the world. These godheads, when worshipped, fulfill people's desires in an easier way but with the same qualities of blessings as from one God.
Scriptures
Unlike other religions Hinduism is not based on any one sacred writing. Instead it has many sacred books which support the basic thoughts of the Vedas. Several of these writings have been translated into foreign languages and have been much appreciated world-wide. Two such writings which happen to be folklore of the Hindu scriptures and are the most commonly used by the Hindus are the Ramayana and Mahabharata. Both of these are in epic form, the former being the oldest and the latter the largest of the epics. Both glorify the principles of the Vedas in a simple way. The celebrated Bhagavad-Gita is a part of the great epic, Mahabharata
Stages of life
Hindus believe that spiritual development in one's life can be achieved by passing through four equal stages during a life span of 108 years. Each stage is called ashrama, and spans 27 years. In the first or child stage, the development of moral values are emphasized by studying with teachers. In the second stage, the pleasures of marriage and family life are enjoyed along with other aspirations and achievements while good citizenship is emphasized. In the third stage, less emphasis is put on worldly affairs and more attention is given to the spiritual aspects. This is to prepare for the fourth and final stage when a Hindu is supposed to experience the true spirituality of nature and be close to the final objective of liberation from worldly bondage (moksha).
[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 31, 2000).]
Rani,
Thank you very much, but i already knew this.I don't understand, where was i wrong?What wrong did i say about hindusim?Mind pasting what i wrote and was wrong according to this article?
"The kind of body the soul enters into at death determined by one's actions (karma) in present life. A person's karma determines in what form he will reappear. He may come back in a higher (human) or lower (animal) life form. Good karma in the present life leads to a better next life and bad karma in the present life leads to a worst next life. This cycle of rebirth continues until one achieves liberation from worldly bondage (moksha). At the liberated stage a soul becomes godly and reincarnation stops. "
Tanha Tanha as you see dear, they don't believe in hell or heaven,instaed if the person performed good deeds, he/she will become godess or god, and untill that happens,they will keep coming back! Tanha ji, i can't say much about this, it is understood!
"All these gods and goddesses resemble humans, animals or natural forces such as wind, water, fire, sun, and moon; each has different powers to bless the world. These godheads, when worshipped, fulfill people's desires in an easier way but with the same qualities of blessings as from one God."
WOW! what is GOD doing when the wishes of people are fulfilled by the gods and goddesses?It is like challeneging one GOD with so many gods!Actually i can say alot on this issue, but i don't want to discriminate your relegion.
Tanha Tanha, now it should be very simple for you to know why are they known as KAFIRS, and whats the major DIFFERENCE BETWEEN US AND THEM!
Masooma
Masooma,
very impressive,you pursued your knowledge from the beginning of the thread consistently despite criticism & oppositionknowledge you possess your undauntable spirit to doggedly persevere what you believed was right saw you through when a lesser person in your situation might have given up in the opposition.
You are very correct in having a reasonable definition of hinduism when hindus themselves wont be able to state in few words what is the essence of there religion.
I know you have seen the prophecies of islam & mohommed in the hindu scriptures on one of my thread which puts islam prophecied 5000>yrs ago quiet surprise to critiques of islam who laugh at 1500 yrs of our post mohommed history but we all know 1st moslem was adam alehis salam.Even ibrahim the father of genesis of judeo christian islamic lineage is related to brahm,which hindu regard as god wrongfully but goes to show root of ibrahim is from "brahm"
I know the hindu scriptures relevant to prphecy of islam & mohommed is suppressed by many internet forums but i have it on religion post .Do read it it is a very crucial piece of informatrion thaty asll moslem who discuss religion with non moslem spl.hindus should know thank you for reading & congratulations to Masooma & some very thaught provocative posts.
sallamm....
it's all right Masooma G...... thanks for participating any way i can get idea now and so far if i come to some conclusions that's only this we r muslims so we have to try to practice our religion as much as we can
it is right that we all do mistakes but we have to learn through our mistakes and it is not good
to call other religions bad or good positive critisism is always good.....!! so i think we have to respect other religions and tell others difference between good & bad....
That's upto them whatever they want to choose....???
any way thanks for you all for your time and nice comments.....religion is an understanding
and it is better to have religion...????