What do Shias think of Alawites?

[Zakk]

Salam..I was reading a book on the alawities of Syria..and I am curious to know what mainstream Shias think of the sect and their philosophy..are they considered Muslim by the majority of shias?

[Naughty_by_Nature]

Re: What do Shias think of Alawites?

They consider themselves true Shias whilst Shias think they are Kafir...

Alawites are only a small percentage of Syria...the Syrian ruling elite is Alawaites and they are far from Muslim...

There understanding is that when Gibreel came to give revelation to Prophet Muhammad (saw) he was actually drunk...revelation in their view was meant for Ali (ra)...but because of Gibreels drunkeness he gave revelation to Muhammed...

So whilst Shias have a simple debate on whether Ali should have been Khaleef...these idiots actually believe Ali to be a Prophet...

So take from that what you may but that pretty much means you are a long long way off from being Muslim...

[Capitol]

Re: What do Shias think of Alawites?

Read up on Imam Musa al-Sadr, leader of the Shia Amal party in Lebanon. He declared the Alawites to be Muslim.

[Sadiyah]

Re: What do Shias think of Alawites?

Capitol, do you agree with what Naughty By Nature has said about Alawhites' beliefs? In addition, on what grounds has the Shia leader declared them Muslims? Could you please summarise it for us?

I'm only Asking out of curiosity only.

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Re: What do Shias think of Alawites?

I used to be in a temping position where I read the asylum request form of many Turkish Alawite Kurds, who claimed asylum in Britain on the grounds of religious discrimination. Part of the form stated that if you claimed asylum on this basis, you had to state what your religious beliefs were.

The Alawites themselves wrote that they believe that God was a trinity of Allah, the Prophet Muhammad (saw), and Hazrat Ali (ra), that they did not believe in the prohibition of alcohol. They explicitly stated that thier religion combined elements of Islam and Christianity - though it is possible that they did this in order to extract sympathy from the asylum officers who would more likely than not be Christians.

Whilst I cannot recall any more specifics, I myself was horrified at the deviation of their beliefs from Islam and wholeheartedly agree with those scholars who question whether or not Alawites are Muslim.

Given that some of these people claimed to be involved in Kurdish separatist movements and their asylum forms included their address in the UK, for a while I was tempted to photocopy and sell these details to the Turkish embassy in London. In the end, I thought that would be unethical.....

[Sheraz_CT]

Re: What do Shias think of Alawites?

i havnt even heard of them..sorry

[Capitol]

Re: What do Shias think of Alawites?

@Sadiyah

Capitol, do you agree with what Naughty By Nature has said about Alawhites’ beliefs? In addition, on what grounds has the Shia leader declared them Muslims? Could you please summarise it for us?

I’m only Asking out of curiosity only.

Sadiyah,
I more or less agree with Naughty by Nature’s description as well as Mad Scientist’s. Alawis are known to be very secretive about their beliefs so there is some discrepancy in what people say in what they truly believe. They are not to be confused with the *Alevis, *a similar yet different sect based in Turkey, whereas the Alawis are based in Syria. Here is the description of the Alawis found on about.com:

Also known as Nusayris, the Alawis are a branch of Isma’ilism which has gone so far along its own path that many Muslims no longer even regard it as a form of Islam. The term Alawis actually just means “followers of Ali,” which is used in some countries to refer to all Shi’a in general. Some think that they worship Ali as God, but that isn’t entirely accurate.
Today they can be found almost entirely in Syria, where they number around 1,350,000 and constitute Syria’s largest religious minority. For a long time the ethnic minority group which comprises the Alawis held to pre-Islamic beliefs, but after years of Isma’ili influence they gradually moved closer to Islam. Yet they also added in Christian elements to their developing religious beliefs through the influence of the Byzantines and Crusades. For example, Alawis celebrate Christmas, Easter, and Epiphany, and use sacramental wine in some ceremonies.
Their origins can be traced to the eleventh Shi’a Imam al-Hasan al-Askari (d.873) and his pupil Ibn Nusayr (d.868). Another common name for the Alawis is the Nusayris, which is derived from Nusayr.
During the Ottoman empire, they were consistently persecuted and had heavy taxes imposed upon them. After Alawi President Hafiz al-Asad and his followers came to power in 1970, however, the well being of the Alawis improved considerably. Despite this, they have no single leader or powerful ruling family because they are split by sectional rivalries. The four Alawi confederations, each divided into tribes, are Kalbiyah, Khaiyatin, Haddadin, and Matawirah.
There are three Alawi doctrines which cause them to be rejected by most Muslims as a valid form of Islam. The first is the belief in incarnation - the idea that God can be made flesh, for example in the case of Ali. Ali is believed to have created Muhammad, who in turn created Salman, an early Shi’ite saint. These three form a Trinity.
Thus, Ali is the “Meaning”; Muhammad, whom Ali created of his own light, is the “Name”; and Salman is the “Gate.” Alawi catechesis is expressed in the formula: “I turn to the Gate; I bow before the Name; I adore the Meaning.” An Alawi prays in a manner patterned after the shahada: “I testify that there is no God but Ali,” which gives rise to the idea that they worship Ali as God.
The second heretical belief for Muslims is the rejection of the Qur’an and all the traditional prayers which are associated with Sunni teachings. The five pillars of Islam are followed, but they are interpreted in a wholly allegorical sense to fit community tenets.
The third heretical belief is in reincarnation - although oddly enough, women do not have souls and are not reincarnated. Because of this, none of the secrets of Alawi doctrines are taught to them. Every person reincarnates several times, and faithful Alawis believe they must undergo transformation seven times before they can return to take their place among the stars, where Ali is the prince. If not faithful enough, they are can be reborn as Christians, where they must remain until atonement is complete. Infidels, unfortunately, are reborn as animals.
Although Sunni Muslims do not regard them as Muslims, Alawis consider themselves to be Muslims. The Syrian Constitution requires that the President of the Republic be a Muslim and there was doubt as to whether or not Hafiz al-Asad fulfilled that condition. But the leader of the Twelver Shi’as in Lebanon, “Imam” Musa Sadr, endorsed their claim to being Muslims.
Their prayer book, the source of religious instruction, is the Kitab al Majmu. Most tenets of their faith are secret, however, because the Alawis have refused to discuss them with outsiders. In fact, even most Alawis don’t know everything and only a select few are taught everything after a long process of initiation and discipleship.

Here is an excerpt from a book that I have but have only looked at briefly, “The Vanished Imam, Musa al-Sadr and the Shia of Lebanon” by Lebanese-American Shia neoconservative, Fouad Ajami:

The question of Alawite recognition has an important political dimension today as well, for the president of Syria, Hafez al-Assad, and the government officials and military officers on whom he relies to maintain power are from Syria’s Alawite minority. It is understandable that al-Assad, as a member of a community rejected by other Muslims as heterodox, embraced Baathist ideology, with its emphasis on pan-Arab secularism rather than Islamic identity as a means of achieving national unity. Nevertheless al-Assad has remained conscious of the stigma of Ghuluww that still adheres to the Alawites. Hence in 1943 he requested a Fatwa from Musa al-Sadr, a prestigious Twelver Mullah and the head of Lebanon’s Higher Shiite Council, concerning the denominational status of the Alawites. Musa al-Sadr replied with a Fatwa to the effect that the Alawites do in fact constitute an orthodox community within Shiite Islam. Much was at stake in this ruling: religious legitimacy within Syria for al-Assad; Syrian military and political support for Twelver Shiites in Lebanon’s Civil Strife. Recognition benefitted both parties.

[Naughty_by_Nature]

Re: What do Shias think of Alawites?

The Syrian constitution says you have to be Muslim to be a leader...so naturally a government scholar is going to do 'what he should do' and declare Hafez Muslim...just cos one scholar says they are Muslim out of political gain doesnt make them Muslim...

[Capitol]

Re: What do Shias think of Alawites?

@Naughty by Nature

The Syrian constitution says you have to be Muslim to be a leader…so naturally a government scholar is going to do ‘what he should do’ and declare Hafez Muslim…just cos one scholar says they are Muslim out of political gain doesnt make them Muslim…

Hafez was the Syrian leader. al-Sadr was an Iranian-born Lebanese Shia cleric and NOT a government scholar. The two were allies during a tumultous period in Lebanon’s history.

[Sadiyah]

Re: What do Shias think of Alawites?

Capitol, thanks for sharing. It was interesting.

[Basit]

Re: What do Shias think of Alawites?

How can one be considered to be a MUSLIM if he/she does not believe or have faith in Prophet Muhammed (khatum ul Ambia) upon whom Quran was revealed.

Even within the Shiite concept, I have never read from the authentic books, that there had been any sect of Shia Islam who did not believe in Prophet Muhammed as a the Final Messenger of ALLAH.

Also, lets look at the History with logic, when Prophet MUhammed was 40 years of age and when he became the Prophet, Hazrat Ali was only 9 years OLD....

So, I dont know what legitimate source of info has been shared.

[armughal]

Re: What do Shias think of Alawites?

^
i dont think age wud be a problem for prophethood....
there have been many prophets who got the prophethood well below the age of 9....
Isa (as) and Yahya (as) immediately come to my mind....

[Syria_09]

Haha you all have it wrong with the Alawi

[Syria_09]

Re: What do Shias think of Alawites?

Turks, Kurds are not alawites they are Alevi their beliefs are different to that of the Alawi. Alawi religion comes from Imam Hassan Al Askri and Imam Mohummad Nysari (iraq) the beliefs of teachings had an affect on the syrian lebanese, thus resulting in the alawi dinn. Just because they dont openly state their beliefs isnt your right to say oh they believe in this this that in the end you have no idea. Basic alawi belief is in the definication of Mohummad, Ali and pretty much Ahel l Beit (the prophet family) but definication in a spirtrual sense not a "trintiy" "godly" since... pffft please a Shia sheikh in lebanon agreed they are muslims on the grounds of the description i gave u.