What do Ahmedi's call mainstream muslims?

[Ibn_Sadique]

Re: What do Ahmedi’s call mainstream muslims?

My friend Mr. Popat – It is obvious to all that you are just dragging this debate into circular motion and are trying to sidestep answering the main issue and are employing diversionary tactics to avoid addressing the very glaring difference between what you and your friends are stating and the stance of Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad.

You and your friends here consider the Muslims who reject all the claims of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani and take him to a fraud, false prophet and a charlatan as Non-Ahmadi Muslims – and still consider them within the pale of Islam albeit a deviant sect.

Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad’s stance is diametrically opposite to what you and your friends are stating. He emphatically and categorically declares anyone who rejects claims of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani as Non- Muslims, Pakkay kaffirs and out of pale of Islam.

The difference between your stance and that of Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad’s stance is like that of Day & Night.

You cannot maintain your stance and yet endorse that of Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad.

Either what you and your friends here state is true. If you say that your stance is correct then you have disowned that statement of Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad.

This is the logical conclusion from the above.

You cannot hoodwink anybody with your verbal somersaults & gymnastics by keeping your feet in two boats going in the opposite directions.

Of course with this kind of verbal somersaults & gymnastics you are going to fall flat on your face and sink in the deep water.

Let’s just stick to the topic at hand, which is: “What do Ahmedi’s call mainstream Muslims?”

You got to explain to us the statements of Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad because his position is supreme in your jamaat.

Yet you are openly defying Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad’s position and presenting your stance on par with him.

You were crowing about your intelligence, now use it and explain to us in simple plain words without resorting to verbal somersaulting why you are adopting stance opposite to that of Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad?

So far you have been ducking, diving and hedging to address the main issue.

@Mr.Popat

Don’t fool yourself. Your scholars call eachother kafir. Sunnis call Shias Kafir and shias call sunnis Kafir. Your scholars have enmity against eachother, consider eachother to be kafir by their hearts.. what good is it to call the other ‘within the pale of islam’ when your scholars hearts are full of hatred against each other?

I think you don’t read what has been posted by others for you!

I had already addressed the above in one of my previous posts.

The fatwas issued against each other are to do with Kufr al Asghar (Minor or lesser Kufr) this doesn’t take one out of pale of Islam but the one committing will have to face the consequences of punishment and cleanse themselves and will eventually end up in heaven.

My previous post I assume you missed reading it.

@Ibn_Sadique

Killing a fellow Muslim is Minor Kufr – It doesn’t make one a kaffir but bound for severe punishment.

Here law Qisas takes place: Murderer pays either by his life; pays blood money or is forgiven by the family of the victim (the one who was murdered) to earn pleasure of Allah Almighty.

And fighting of Muslims against each other, which is referred to in the Hadeeth of the Prophet (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam), “Reviling of a Muslim is an act of disobedience and fighting him is Kufr.” [Agreed upon]

And in his saying: “Do not revert after me (Kufran) like the infidels killing each other.” [Agreed upon]

Likewise, swearing by other than Allah. The Prophet * said: “He who swears by other than Allah, commits an act of Kufr, or Shirk.” [Tirmidhee]

Allah, the Exalted, declared a Muslim who commits a major sin as a believer. He says: “O you who believe! Al-Qisas (the Law of Equality in punishment) is prescribed for you in case of murder.” [Soorah al-Baqarah (2): 178]

Hence, Allah, the Exalted, did not exclude the murderer from the believers, rather He referred to him as the brother of the slain’s guarding saying (in continuation of the verse): “Therefore, one who is granted remission by one’s brother, then he should pursue that matter in a kind manner and pay the blood-money with kindness (when he excepts blood-money) with fairness.”

‘Brotherhood’ which is referred to in the above verse, doubtlessly means brotherhood in faith. Allah, the Exalted, says: “And if two parties of believers fight against each other, make peace between them.” [Soorah al-Hujurat (49): 9]

And if after that one of them transgresses against the other, fight the party that transgresses until it returns to the command of Allah. Then if it returns, make peace between them with equity, and act justly. Allah loves the just.

“Surely all believers are brothers. So make peace between brothers.” [Soorah al-Hujurat (49): 10]

End of the Abridged Commentary from al-Aqeedah at-Tahawiyyah.

Summary of the Differences between the major and minor Kufr:

1. The major Kufr constitutes apostasy, and nullifies the good deeds. While the minor Kufr neither constitutes apostasy not nullifies good deeds, but it diminishes them, and subjects one who commits it to the threatened punishment.

2. The major Kufr condemns one who commits it to eternal abode in Fire. While one who commits the minor Kufr, if he enters Fire, he would not remain in it eternally. It may be that Allah forgives him, and he would not enter it in the first place.

3. The major Kufr justifies violating the blood and property of the one who commits it. While the minor Kufr does not.

4. The major Kufr makes it incumbent upon the believers to treat with enmity the one who commits it, thus, it is not permissible for the believers to love or befriend the one who commits it even if he is a very close relative.

As for minor Kufr, it does not prevent loving and befriending him at all. Rather, he should be befriended proportionately to the Imaan he possesses and be abhorred proportionately to the disobedience he commits.

Chapter 3: Kufr (Infidelity): Its Definition and Types | Aqeedah at-Tawheed by Shaikh al-Fawzaan

@Mr.Popat

Again, I repeat, we call you Muslim for the same reason your scholars call Shias Muslim despite numerous fatwas against them. Who decides whose ‘within the pale of Islam’ is not upto us. God is the best judge.

Let me repeat again – You are disowning the statements of Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad.

Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad had banished anyone who did not believe in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani out of pale of Islam and you in defiance to him are keeping mainstream Muslims within the pale of Islam.

Above is not comparable to Sunni –Shia situation. With all their mutual differences, antagonism and mutual animosity they do have inter-marriages, perform rituals of Hajj together at the same time each according to their own fiqh.

Allah Almighty has already given us very broad boundary to who is within the pale of Islam.

Care to educate us why Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad has thrown overwhelming majority of Muslims out of pale of Islam as pakkay kaffir and you in defiance to him are keeping them within fold of Islam?

This is the core issue of this thread

Read my previous post

@Ibn_Sadique

You are showing disloyalty to your faith – and to Mr. Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad.

This is just posturing here for public consumption.

Your tongues lie but the hearts are with Mr. Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad’s position and your minds are outsmarting themselves for public posturing!

Sir, You are NOT going to fool anybody with your public posturing over here!