JOE BIDEN
Couric: What country frightens you the most in the world and why?
Biden: Short-term, Pakistan. It is the most complicated relationship we have and the most dangerous short-term relationship we have. Here you have a country that is in a very difficult moment. It has nuclear weapons. It not only has the nuclear warhead, it has the missiles. They can marry them very easily.** Although they have a majority of moderate, middle-class people, there is a significant minority of extreme radical Islamists and a president who is actually acting right now as a dictator sitting on top of this power keg.** And how we manage that relationship is significantly more consequential than anything [that] will happen in Iran.
Couric: What would you do?
Biden: Well, first of all, I would try to correct what this administration did inadvertently, or advertently, to weaken the relationship. Musharraf was prepared to work with us…moving toward democracy, as well as taking on terrorists, as long as we were in Afghanistan, but we left Afghanistan, figuratively speaking. We took almost all the resources out of there we need. So, all of a sudden, Musharraf starts cutting deals with these folks in the northwest province because they’re the same tribe as the Afghans, Pashtun. They have the Taliban, al-Qaeda, and he’s looking over his shoulder saying, “Wait a minute. The big dog just left the pen. The small dog’s not going to stick here. Why am I doing this?” That caused further radicalization, I think, in that province, and it was a Faustian bargain that couldn’t be kept. In the meantime, we also have only a Musharraf policy. We don’t have a Pakistani policy. We cast all our lot with Musharraf when, in fact, we should be simultaneously helping build democratic institutions in Iraq.
For example, I’ve been trying to push our economic aid toward building schools in Pakistan. There are 7,000 madrassas, these extreme schools built along the Afghan and Pakistani border. **We are not…doing much for that middle class in Pakistan, dealing with their economic security and their long-term progress. **
If you have no outlet for reasonable, middle-class, mainstream part of your population, I’m afraid what will happen over time in Pakistan is what happened in Iran with the shah. What happened? The shah clamped down on and took issue with not only the extremists in his country, but those people who were democrats with a small “D” who had nothing in common with the Ahmadinejads of the world.
But after a while, they all threw in league together to oust him, and what happens? The “bad guys” end up dominating. That’s my worst-case scenario for dealing with Pakistan. So we need a Pakistani policy, and we need to get it right in Afghanistan. All these dots are connected. I mean, you know, when we threaten, we talk about World War III with Iran, and we talk about declaring their army a terrorist organization.** Even if all that’s true, all we do is feed the urban legend in the Muslim world that this is a war against Islam. All we do is take those people who are prepared to work with us like Karzai in Afghanistan, Musharraf in Pakistan, and put them in a position they have to distance themselves from us in order to be able to maintain their power. It’s really counterproductive.**
HILLARY CLINTON
Couric: What country frightens you the most, and what would you do about it as president?
Clinton: Well, right now I am most worried about Pakistan. I think Pakistan is very unstable. **I believe President Musharraf has failed to deliver on either democracy or a rising standard of living for his people. You know, democracy has to be carefully nurtured, it has to be understood, and he hasn’t done that. And, unfortunately, now he’s a sort of basically one person rule, and [has] imprisoned his opposition and, basically, I think, turned his back on democracy. **
Couric: What would you do about Pakistan?
Clinton: Well, I think we’ve missed a lot of opportunities. So, starting where we are now, I would put the United States firmly on the side of the Pakistani people and on behalf of those who are agitating for democracy and for rights. I mean, it’s almost touching to see lawyers, well-dressed lawyers in the streets, protesting and demonstrating for Democracy, for the rule of law.** I think the United States should be supporting those kinds of voices inside Pakistan, the non-governmental organizations that they are part of. I would continue to press President Musharraf to end emergency rule, to step down as the head of the military, to create conditions for free and fair elections, but I would always recognize the reality that we need to continue working with him and his government, and particularly his military, on our joint threat from Islamic extremists. **
