That the four members of the UN Security Council against the war in Iraq are against it? China, France, Russia, and Germany. Why are they against the war?
I keep reading about the war not being legitimate but don’t get that concept.
EXPLAIN! Cuz currently the news is going over my head!
:-)
so you want to know why they are against the war, which means that you do know why USA is bombing the hell out of iraqis. :-) well if you do know the latter then its of no use to know why other 4 members are against the war. because when comes to USA, nothing matters at all
:-)
For the same reason the USA is doing the bombing. OIL!!! Just because the other 4 nations are against war do not think that they care more about the Iraqi people or the muslim people. They are in it for the oil. Everyone else are just pawns.
yaaay for oil, can't wait for gas prices to come down, damn that V8 engine...
Re: What are the reasons?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sarah Splendor: *
That the four members of the UN Security Council against the war in Iraq are against it? China, France, Russia, and Germany. Why are they against the war?
[/QUOTE]
Ok, I'm going out on a limb to try and actually give a straight answer.
The official position is that they believe pre-emptive strikes without evidence that Iraq actually has weapons of mass destruction, is against all international law. Having said that, the following are some of the speculations put forward by political pundits.
France: They have huge existing oil contracts in Iraq and worry that after Americans occupy Iraq, they will cancel all old contracts and award them to US companies. Real worry. Real opposition.
USSR: Again, Russia was just given huge oil contracts in Iraq. In addition, significant oil reserves are discovered in Russia, and so the govt. there is worried that if US brings down the oil prices by increasing production from Iraqi wells, then Russia won't be able to get expected revenue from its own oil production. Secondly, Russia does not want a direct foot hold of USA in the middle of Middle East.
Germany: Don't think they have any significant oil contracts in Iraq. However, the Germans just had elections, and the party which won the elections had promised not to involve German troops in a war in Iraq, so they gotta keep the election promise, as they had gotten votes on that. Plus, they built most of the bunkers in Baghdad and in Iraq, so they probably didn't wanted those to be crushed by bunker-buster bombs as thats bad publicity for German products.
China: They are likely to oppose anything which means more power to US. This time they found 3 other major allies in the UNSC.
That being said, all four are likely to accept the developing events in Iraq as fait accompli and will rush to protect their interests in any post-war Iraq. So, its possible, they will all change their public posturing very soon, if not already. Its a game of self-interests-first. Always.
Good call Faisal. That is a better explanation.
Faisal can you (ap)prove your statments with some "working links" for the public here? Especially in case of France and Russia.
Thank you.
I really didn’t want to do that, cz then this discussion, like many others here, become too cut-paste centric, without anyone expressing what they think. However, here you go
http://www.gupistan.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88615#post1253712
Do check the first MSNBC link. It has a link there, which shows the curernt Iraqi oil contracts, and which country has those.
This one here also has some useful information on the topic
http://www.gupistan.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73329
well atleast russia and france were not willing to risk the lives of millions by attacking iraq. iraq was of no threat to any country, especially USA. but USA doesn't have any respect for humanity and humans.
:-)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ali_R: *
Faisal can you (ap)prove your statments with some "working links" for the public here? Especially in case of France and Russia.
Thank you.
[/QUOTE]
And that is part of the BIG problem... some of you rely TOO much on certain news media outlets... CNN/BBC/Al Jazeera ALL have hidden agendas.
I'm willing to bite off that France/Russia/Germany all have/had business dealings with Iraq and perhaps, they did not want the U.S. in Iraq, digging through paperwork, to expose some potentially embarrassing situations. You can bet that the CIA is digging through Iraq's "underwear drawer" as we speak and there are more than Iraq's pair of underwear in that drawer.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by EntityParadigm: *
well atleast russia and france were not willing to risk the lives of millions by attacking iraq. iraq was of no threat to any country, especially USA. but USA doesn't have any respect for humanity and humans.
:-)
[/QUOTE]
It might be true in this case but history proves it otherwise. Russians did support the Serbs who killed a lot of Bosnians. French role in Algeria is an open secret where a lot of civilians are being killed by the Army who has got the French backing.
Most of the time it is Self Interest First.
Hey Sarah
I agree with Faisal Bhai...
While a part of me does like the Russians and French and Chinese for siding with us, it would be naive of us to think that they are doing it for humanitarian concerns, thats just a facade...
They definitely have some economic interests in this whole issue too...
At the end of the day I feel like a non Muslim country's motives just can not be trusted...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by irem: *
At the end of the day I feel like a non Muslim country's motives just can not be trusted...
[/QUOTE]
Quite frankly, the motives of most Muslim countries' leadership cannot be trusted either these days....
sigh
true 
this is one thing that is truly sad… 
the only ray of hope is that even though our leaders are corrupt, the majority of Muslims are still loyal to the ummah…alhamdulillah…
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by humanrace: *
And that is part of the BIG problem... some of you rely TOO much on certain news media outlets... CNN/BBC/Al Jazeera ALL have hidden agendas.
[/quote]
You conveniently left out Fox :D The biggest smut fest of all.
[quote]
I'm willing to bite off that France/Russia/Germany all have/had business dealings with Iraq and perhaps, they did not want the U.S. in Iraq, digging through paperwork, to expose some potentially embarrassing situations. You can bet that the CIA is digging through Iraq's "underwear drawer" as we speak and there are more than Iraq's pair of underwear in that drawer.
[/QUOTE]
We are talking on the level of nations. I doubt any of the above countries give a damn if we wag our finger at them.. especially after we commit what is to them a far greater sin. Anyway, how can we justify retribution against any that did business with Iraq? That would be a rather long list.. if we expand the definition to all who violate sanctions of all kinds then we have to chase just about every country with a good to export.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by spoon: *
You conveniently left out Fox :D The biggest smut fest of all.
We are talking on the level of nations. I doubt any of the above countries give a damn if we wag our finger at them.. especially after we commit what is to them a far greater sin. Anyway, how can we justify retribution against any that did business with Iraq? That would be a rather long list.. if we expand the definition to all who violate sanctions of all kinds then we have to chase just about every country with a good to export.
[/QUOTE]
oops sorry... I did leave out Fox as well as the new reigning champ that I only ever heard of on this board... "The Guardian". There's a couple others from the UK that travel side by side with "The Enquirer" from the USA!
No country likes another country to find ANYTHING embarrassing about them. Even if it was as simple as Putin selling Saddam a couple joints.