West/China is successful because of Islamic Principles...Really?

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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I am sick of hearing stories from Muslim Circles that West and now China is successful because they followed the Islamic principles. My dear MULSIM brothers and sisters, if your Islamic principles are so good why can’t you follow them? If all these Kafir countries are becoming prosperous by following the golden principles of Islam, how come Muslim countries are the most under-developed countries in the world? Now don’t take me wrong. I am not saying that Islamic principles are not good but I am just not ready to hear these stories anymore. I am sick of sheltering other’s babies. I want my own baby.

For how long these Muslim clerics will make us fool by telling these stories? We, the new Muslim generation, want the proof. Don’t come and tell us that a Non-believer XYZ is rich and successful because he followed the Islam. Show us a Muslim country in the modern history where all Islamic laws were practiced religiously and that country made enormous development. Show us a country where interest-free banking system replaced the Interest-based banking system (entirely) and yet the country was able to make significant economic progress. Now don’t give the example of Saudi Arabia/middle east. We all know what Saudi Arabia/middle east was before they discovered Oil accidentally. Take Oil out of the equation and you will get the picture. Dubai is making enormous progress but Boy o Boy, Dubai is more westernized than West. And it not about economics only. If in the West, people are more tolerant, make queues and honest in their dealings because of Islamic principles, how come we never followed those principles? It seems to me that we are missing a fundamental point somewhere.

Making a long story short, how long the Muslims will rely on the stories of past glory?

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Re: West/China is successful because of Islamic Principles...Really?

well its the maulas which have destroyed muslim countrys.

there is no way forward if you adapt islamic polices cos the maulas will bash your country left, right center, examples are afganistan, iran, iraq. then just go and look at muslim countrys which havnt got islamic policies, malaysia, UAE, turkey, indornesia etc. these countrys are peacfull and people are living and very good life there.

same can be said about china.

west china which is mostly muslims is farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr behind east china.

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Re: West/China is successful because of Islamic Principles...Really?

suhaib Malaysia is very Islamic far more so than Pakistan :)

Murgi
Murgi
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Re: West/China is successful because of Islamic Principles…Really?

is that why they have nightclubs, bars etc.

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Re: West/China is successful because of Islamic Principles...Really?

and your point is?

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Re: West/China is successful because of Islamic Principles…Really?

didnt you just call it more far more islamic then pakistan, you dont understand english do you.

Murgi
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Re: West/China is successful because of Islamic Principles...Really?

I was wondering about that? Isn't there some way of removing things like this, they're an annoyance when you're looking for actual feedback.

Anyway, this is one of the very few things that drive me nuts about a few posters here. I was actually hoping to see something beyond the blind we're just better so stuff it routine.

All our evils are ours, however any good is because it was given or taken by us (including people, apparently).

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Re: West/China is successful because of Islamic Principles...Really?

PD, you are right we as muslims keep on hearing all this and on the ground we don’t see anything. I think the answer lies in your statement here.

[QUOTE]

if your Islamic principles are so good why can’t you follow them?
how come we never followed those principles?
[/QUOTE]
Simply because “we” don’t believe in them and think otherwise and that’s the missing fundamental point. I personally think that Islamic principles are totally useless if the society doesn’t accept them and are not backed up by laws and popular support. The same is the case for any law in any country, if the laws are supported by the masses and are not forced properly it becomes useless. In my point of view, it’s a combination of what the law is and how it’s implemented that leads the society and civilization forward no ifs and buts. Pick up any modern society and you will find that this is the most common feature. So in any modern society the rate of success is directly related to how the country handles the implementation of laws.

We also have to make sure that on what basis and criteria are we assessing the modern Muslim states, let make sure that there is a clear distinction in-between Muslim States and states governed by Islamic laws.

Since there are no Islamic states with all of its Islamic institutions lets take the other modern day Islamic states. There are Muslim states (with majority Muslim population), which have realized that it’s the laws and its implementation that leads the people to prosperity. One criteria to assess the implementation of law is level of corruption in the society. UAE (even if they are westernized to the nth degree) Oman, Bahrain has the lowest corruption levels almost equal to France, Spain and Japan. That in my point of view is a very big achievement comparing that these countries relay less on their oil revenues. Malaysia and Tunisia are the other two Muslim countries, which have corruption less than Italy. This is just one aspect, then there is this other level of principles like tolerance and honesty and I don’t think that the countries I mentioned above are any less tolerant.

But coming to the main argument why don’t we follow “so-called” Islamic principles? Like praying in queues and then not following the queues. Saying that cleanliness is nisf-Iman and then spiting in the open. Following the prophet who is Rahmutal-lil-Almeen and not having the smiles on our faces. What happened to the concept of رحماء بينهم merciful among themselves?

Its really disturbing.

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Re: West/China is successful because of Islamic Principles...Really?

China follows islamic principles? news to me.. Which priinciples would these be?

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Re: West/China is successful because of Islamic Principles...Really?

west china does follow islamic principles.

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Re: West/China is successful because of Islamic Principles...Really?

There are Muslims openly practicing in China (even if it is the west)?? Amazing, I thought they stomped that virus out years ago, I know they were trying for a while to get rid of all religion.

I hate to burst bubbles here, but all religions have the same basic teachings and principles. Is there some way to get more information (or proof) than just saying they do. How do they and in what way? How does it vary drastically from sound principals of running a country in general and other religions?

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Re: West/China is successful because of Islamic Principles...Really?

C'mon PD, a muslim invented algebra, hence they should be given credit for the invention of the computer... space travel and the internet too for that matter

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Re: West/China is successful because of Islamic Principles…Really?

Yeah and they are the biggest laggards in China in terms of development.

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Re: West/China is successful because of Islamic Principles…Really?

Like i said before for how long will Muslims rely on the stories of past glory?

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Re: West/China is successful because of Islamic Principles…Really?

Thanks for the feedback.

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Re: West/China is successful because of Islamic Principles...Really?

crickets

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Re: West/China is successful because of Islamic Principles...Really?

Desi Bhai, People should think progress and learn from history, but to live in the past is a very bad thing, my mumta ji tells me all about the inidian princes and indian glory, but my babu-ji tells me to forget history and think future. The Muslims brothers in India at least in Banglore, dont live in the past. The indian muslims have more animosity against pakistani muslims for some reason. I dont know the reason however. Ok I have to go now mumta ji is banging on my door, she hears key board and thinks I am on the Gandi wali websites.
Bye Bye

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Re: West/China is successful because of Islamic Principles...Really?

There aren't many islamic countries that are following the Islamic principles.
Infact, I think Malaysia(only 56% muslim) and Iran (Shia) are the only two countries that are following the islamic principles.
All the other countries have puppet leaders backed by either the amerca, europe or russia.

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Re: West/China is successful because of Islamic Principles…Really?

true we have to forget past and stay in the present. We have to see our situation now. Actually if we had a glorious past then we should ashamed that we had such a downfall. We shud ask ourselves why did this happen rather than repeating stories of past glory and saying that everyone follows us

^^^ Eyes ^^^
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Re: West/China is successful because of Islamic Principles…Really?

i just came to check after a long time, but could not resist the urge to post.
PD, there has not been an islamic state for centuries. so i cant give you any examples. pakistan, iran, saudia arabia, malaysia all have murtad/kafir governments, and thus you can not get any example what so ever of islamic laws bringing economic gains.
there has not been any islamic govt. for centuries, and that uthmani so called khilafat was also declared kafir by shuyokh of arabian peninsula.

so there you go, no islamic govt. for a long time so stop blaming mullahs for living in the past, we havent had any present to look upto for a long long time.
and besides, i think living a luxurious life under kuffar laws while being destined to hell is not something we could call a “success”. if so, qaroon should be our example…and that is what Allah said in quran about him…

Verily, Qârûn (Korah) was of Mûsa’s (Moses) people, but he behaved arrogantly towards them. And We gave him of the treasures, that of which the keys would have been a burden to a body of strong men. When his people said to him: "Do not be glad (with ungratefulness to Allâh’s Favours). Verily! Allâh likes not those who are glad (with ungratefulness to Allâh’s Favours). (Al-Qasas 28:76)
But seek, with that (wealth) which Allâh has bestowed on you, the home of the Hereafter, and forget not your portion of legal enjoyment in this world, and do good as Allâh has been good to you, and seek not mischief in the land. Verily, Allâh likes not the Mufsidûn (those who commit great crimes and sins, oppressors, tyrants, mischief-makers, corrupts). (Al-Qasas 28:77)
He said: “This has been given to me only because of knowledge I possess.” Did he not know that Allâh had destroyed before him generations, men who were stronger than him in might and greater in the amount (of riches) they had collected. But the Mujrimûn (criminals, disbelievers, polytheists, sinners, etc.) will not be questioned of their sins (because Allâh knows them well, so they will be punished without account). (Al-Qasas 28:78)
So he went forth before his people in his pomp. Those who were desirous of the life of the world, said: “Ah, would that we had the like of what Qârûn (Korah) has been given? Verily! He is the owner of a great fortune.” (Al-Qasas 28:79)
But those who had been given (religious) knowledge said: “Woe to you! The Reward of Allâh (in the Hereafter) is better for those who believe and do righteous good deeds, and this none shall attain except those who are patient (in following the truth).” (Al-Qasas 28:80)
So We caused the earth to swallow him and his dwelling place. Then he had no group or party to help him against Allâh, nor was he one of those who could save themselves. (Al-Qasas 28:81)
And those who had desired (for a position like) his position the day before, began to say: "Know you not that it is Allâh Who enlarges the provision or restricts it to whomsoever He pleases of His slaves. Had it not been that Allâh was Gracious to us, He could have caused the earth to swallow us up (also)! Know you not that the disbelievers will never be successful. (Al-Qasas 28:82)
That home of the Hereafter (i.e. Paradise), We shall assign to those who rebel not against the truth with pride and oppression in the land nor do mischief by committing crimes. And the good end is for the Muttaqûn (pious - see V.2:2). (Al-Qasas 28:83)

so look at this situation and apply it to our times. the qaroon of todays time is the west, the america specially. they behave arrogantly and say we are rich due to the knowledge we posses, and due to our smart money making schemes. forgetting that Allah has more power than them and His treasures are never ending unlike the finite amount the americans/west have. and we have some muslims who look at the show of wealth of america/west and say ahh, would that we would have it too and look to blame islam for their lack of money, forgetting that Allah gives to whome he wills and no one questions him while he questions all. it could be a test for us muslims to not have wealth, so the patient ones amonst us can get reward from allah while the ones whose hearts have a disease will fall over and join the ranks of kuffar because of temporary success. and when the punishment of Allah comes on these kuffar, and their fascade falls, these muslims will say oh Allah glory be to you for not inclusing us with them.
Allah knows best.