http://english.people.com.cn/200609/23/eng20060923_305721.html
Re: ~! Well well well, now we know... what we already knew!
Well, we have been discussing this in other forums but for General, I think this comment was more for the Pakistani audience than any other. I mean Americans knew after 9/11 that they have to see things black and white, but for Pakistan it was much more complicated.
Re: ~! Well well well, now we know... what we already knew!
I don't understand...were there no alternatives?
Re: ~! Well well well, now we know... what we already knew!
yup, I think taleban went for the other alternative
Re: ~! Well well well, now we know... what we already knew!
^^ there surely must be a difference between the Taleban and a country of 150million with a professional army which spends over 60% of the budget on buying advanced weaponry every year and has an all voluntray standing army, airforce and navy..
simple thing is Mushy had no balls.. and I'd love to see the faces of all the generals who pledge allegiance to this coward.. It's a slap in the face of the entire army establishment..
Re: ~! Well well well, now we know... what we already knew!
right.. ever done a comparison of what pakistan would be able to do if attacked by US, not with any intent to send ground forces in but do lob missiles and drop bombs using stealth bombers..
bravado is well and good, but one should not lose sight of logic and reality. the political mood at the point was such that if there were strikes no one in the world would have stood up to stop it.. I am glad mushraf did what he did because not only was it the responsible decision which aved many lives, but it was also the right decision.
Re: ~! Well well well, now we know... what we already knew!
Seriously, if there was an attack, there is no way in heck Pakistan would have been able to do anything. If you think that Pakistan has the ability to fend off systematic bombing than you are grossly over-estimating our militaristic capabilities.
Re: ~! Well well well, now we know... what we already knew!
When there was nil proof of any Pakistani involvement, it made no sense at all for Mushy to bend over like that. what was he afraid of? Why would the USA bomb the crap out of Pakistan when it wasn't complicit? Iran didn't help the USA.. it didn't get carpet bombed did it?
If I were the head of the military AND the president of a country of 150mil I wouldn't get weak in the knees anytime someone called in with a threat like that... I'd call their bluff.
Re: ~! Well well well, now we know... what we already knew!
So Fraudia , are you saying that all that money that we have been spending on the military for the last 59 years is just a myth and is not based on logic and reality. Based on how Mush reacted, it seems like he was ready for his "moderately enlightened" agenda and 9/11 gave him the perfect opportunity.
But the best part is the ISI chief at that time General Mahomood, who was in DC on that particular day, agreed to all 7 points by the US, where as even the Americans were expecting him to agree on three or four points. This shows how weak and demoralized our military brass is, letting the arms down with out even asking why Pakistan should be bombed in the first place.
Re: ~! Well well well, now we know... what we already knew!
PA, there was no proof of Sadam's involvement in 9/11 and he did not even had any WMD. He got carpet bombed and now Iraq is in the middle of civil war, since when Americans had sensible ideas?
Re: ~! Well well well, now we know... what we already knew!
there is a LOT of difference between Iraq and Pakistan. Iraq spent over 10 years under no fly zones and international monitors and crippling sanctions. Pakistan has remained safe from that.. the MOST that would have come our way would have been tough sanctions again.....except on military equipment of course which would have been supplied all the same through backdoor channels so we keep wasting money on arms we'll never have the gonads to use.
Re: ~! Well well well, now we know... what we already knew!
With the Republicans back in the office, Pakistan was looking to imrpove relations with US again (Historically Republicans have had favorable policies towards Pakistan, relatively speaking). The events of 9/11 offered this oppurtunity. At the same time the relations with India were also very tense (98 nuclear tests, military force concentration on the borders in 99). US was looking for bases inside Pakistan and our support and thats what we offered. If you guys remember, India was begging the States to use its land for bases and attacks in Afghanistan. If we had refused this would have given India a golden oppurtunity to have Pakistan declared state-sponsored terrorist state (not that they havent tried to do that already since, without success that is).
Re: ~! Well well well, now we know... what we already knew!
Ok PA, I take your argument. We should have fought against United States but why? On whose cause, Al-Qaeda, Taliban, Mullahs; these are the same people who have destroyed Pakistan and majority of mainstream do not like and follow their views. Who and what we be fighting for?
A threat by United States?!? They give threats to everyone....even their allies.
Re: ~! Well well well, now we know... what we already knew!
All that was needed was to act with some honor and dignity. The message should've been that you just cannot just walk all over a nation as large and strong as Pakistan. There was absolutely no need to get into any conflicts.. If the US wanted cooperation, it could have been given to them on lucrative terms to Pakistan.. not under coersion or threats... afterall isn't that what the US ended up doing anyway?
Re: ~! Well well well, now we know... what we already knew!
Well, the bottom line is even before 9/11 Pakistan wanted to be friends with US, no matter how unpopular their policies and tactics might be. The mainstream wants to be with the civilized world.
Now to threats, I am not sure US would have understand Pakistan situation of 'well, you could have said it nicely' at that time and especially this administration. If not attacked, US would have moved for sanctions that would destroy Pakistan because we do not have oil.
I know it gives a preception that Pakistan was pushed and it might not be sincere but I think it is just a conversation. What happened after ground realities that is suggests the most, no matter how shaddy the preception may look, the relation between Pakistan and US is very valuable and has helped both nations very well.
This is not the only conversation they had after 9/11, I bet they have ironed out rude remarks or ill wills that were left after this. I think instead of acting on threats, President acted maturely that US is attacked and their emotions are taking over....