We will fight india side by side with ARMY: Taliban

Good suggestions. I like Tom Friedman (well not all of his essays). However he is on to something here.

Let's be clear here. Wider Muslim world doesn't exist to do good so forget about them protesting against Mumbai carnage. And people who protested cartoons were Talibans and Taliban sympathizers. And guess what Pakistani people and the law enforcement agencies are fighting pitched battles with the same crowd. So do not use the taliban cartoons to make caricature of the whole country.

Back to Pakistani reaction. Tom is absolutely right. We must come out in force and share the sorrow with our neighbors.

I do suggest few things to Toms, Dicks, and Harries (including saregama) to quit repeating the unfounded allegations against Pakistan. The blood of innocents haven't even dried and people like you and Tom are bristling at the whole country and nation of Pakistan. Quit rumor mongering and you will get all the love from ordinary Pakistanis as you need and as much they can give you.

We had a bad taste of Indian stupidity back when parliament was attacked. I mean there was no point in amassing lakhs of troops on Pakistan border. Many in Pakistan worry that India will do the same thing again.

Let me ask you this saraygama, if China was threatening to put troops on Indian border, how many Indians would be collecting food and clothing for the Chinese victims of the recent earthquake. This example will show that even in case of natural disaster, it is hard to comfort and support a country that is threatening. Then why someone would expect that people will be on the streets in Pakistan during a much more man made fiasco?

Goodwill begets good will. Start some on your side, and you will get 4 times that from Pakistanis.

p.s. To all net-warrior Indians, you must visit Pakistan to see the human face. If you can't afford the air ticket, then read those 100's of essays and travelogues written by Indians who did visit Pakistan. Don't just copy Gora writings without looking over to your neighbor. This is high time to see with your own eyes than committing to Gora intellectuals. They may have good intentions but they were not born and raised in the sub-continent.

It is not the ordinary folks in Pakistan which are the problem. The people in India generally understand that the local population of Pakistan is also suffering becuase of these elements within the jehadi fold and their sympathisers in the military ....... they have taken Pakistan through a number of wars which have got Pakistan nothing but misery. And these same people are the ones who actually are responsible for these attacks also.

The Pakistani government is taking flak from all quarters because they are being seen as a covering for these elements. Their actions dont match their words.

Let us take the list of 20 terrorsits .... Pak says show us the evidence .... let them just check the red corner alert against Dawood ... what else do you want !!!!!

No one blames Pakistan govt. now but there are rogue elements in ISI and army which encourage organisations like Lashkar - e- Taiba and Jaish -e-Mohammad and recruit and lure ordinary Pakistanis. It is high time Pakistanis realize this . There is a Pakistani connection to so many terrorism acts not just in India but from London to Manila. It would be sad to see Pakistanis termed as “Global Jihadists” just because of few people.

Check the analysis of Syed Saleed Shahzad

Asia Times Online :: South Asia news, business and economy from India and Pakistan

Al-Qaeda ‘hijack’ led to Mumbai attack
By Syed Saleem Shahzad

MILAN - A plan by Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) that had been in the pipelines for several months - even though official policy was to ditch it - saw what was to be a low-profile attack in Kashmir turn into the massive attacks on Mumbai last week.

The original plan was highjacked by the Laskar-e-Taiba (LET), a Pakistani militant group that generally focussed on the Kashmir struggle, and al-Qaeda, resulting in the deaths of nearly 200 people in Mumbai as groups of militants sprayed bullets and hand

grenades at hotels, restaurants and train stations, as well as a Jewish community center.

The attack has sent shock waves across India and threatens to revive the intense periods of hostility the two countries have endured since their independence from British India in 1947.

There is now the possibility that Pakistan will undergo another about-turn and rethink its support of the “war in terror”; until the end of 2001, it supported the Taliban administration in Afghanistan. It could now back off from its restive tribal areas, leaving the Taliban a free hand to consolidate their Afghan insurgency.

A US State Department official categorically mentioned that Pakistan’s “smoking gun” could turn the US’s relations with Pakistan sour. The one militant captured - several were killed - is reported to have been a Pakistani trained by the LET.

A plan goes wrong
Asia Times Online investigations reveal that several things went wrong within the ISI, which resulted in the Mumbai attacks.

Before the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States, the ISI had several operations areas as far as India was concerned. The major forward sections were in Muzzafarabad, the capital of Pakistan-administered Kashmir, which were used to launch proxy operations through Kashmir separatist groups in Indian-administered Kashmir.

The next major areas were Nepal and Bangladesh, where both countries were used for smuggling arms and ammunition into India and for launching militants to carry out high-level guerrilla operations in Indian territory other than Kashmir.

After 9/11, when Islamabad sided with the United States in the “war on terror” and the invasion of Afghanistan was launched to catch al-Qaeda members and militants, Pakistan was forced to abandon its Muzzafarabad operations under American pressure. The major recent turn in the political situation in Nepal with the victory of Maoists and the abolishment of the monarchy has reduced the ISI’s operations. An identical situation has happened in Bangladesh, where governments have changed.

The only active forward sections were left in the southern port city of Karachi, and the former Muzzafarabad sections were sent there. The PNS Iqbal (a naval commando unit) was the main outlet for militants to be given training and through deserted points they were launched into the Arabian sea and on into the Indian region of Gujarat.

At the same time, Washington mediated a dialogue process between India and Pakistan, which resulted in some calm. Militants were advised by the ISI to sit tight at their homes to await orders.

However, that never happened. The most important asset of the ISI, the Laskhar-e-Taiba (LET), was split after 9/11. Several of its top-ranking commanders and office bearers joined hands with al-Qaeda militants. A millionaire Karachi-based businessman, Arif Qasmani, who was a major donor for ISI-sponsored LET operations in India, was arrested for playing a double game - he was accused of working with the ISI while also sending money to Pakistan’s South Waziristan tribal area for the purchase of arms and ammunition for al-Qaeda militants.

The network of the Harkat-ul-Jihad-al-Islami, which was a major supporter of the ISI in the whole region, especially in Bangladesh, was shattered and fell into the hands of al-Qaeda when Maulana Ilyas Kashmiri, chief of Harkat, a hero of the armed struggle in Kashmir who had spent two years in an Indian jail, was arrested by Pakistani security forces in January 2004. He was suspected of having links to suicide bombers who rammed their vehicles into then-president General Pervez Musharraf’s convoy on December 25, 2003.

He was released after 30 days and cleared of all suspicion, but he was profoundly affected by the experience and abandoned his struggle for Kashmir’s independence and moved to the North Waziristan tribal area with his family. His switch from the Kashmiri struggle to the Afghan resistance was an authentic religious instruction to those in the camps in Kashmir to move to support Afghanistan’s armed struggle against foreign forces. Hundreds of Pakistani jihadis established a small training camp in the area.

Almost simultaneously, Harkat’s Bangladesh network disconnected itself from the ISI and moved closer to al-Qaeda. That was the beginning of the problem which makes the Mumbai attack a very complex story.

India has never been a direct al-Qaeda target. This has been due in part to Delhi’s traditionally impartial policy of strategic non-alignment and in part to al-Qaeda using India as a safe route from the Arabian Sea into Gujrat and then on to Mumbai and then either by air or overland to the United Arab Emirates. Al-Qaeda did not want to disrupt this arrangement by stirring up attacks in India.

Nevertheless, growing voices from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and from within India for the country to be a strategic partner of NATO and the US in Afghanistan compelled al-Qaeda, a year ago, to consider a plan to utilize Islamic militancy structures should this occur.

Several low-profile attacks were carried out in various parts of India as a rehearsal and Indian security agencies still have no idea who was behind them. Nevertheless, al-Qaeda was not yet prepared for any bigger moves, like the Mumbai attacks.

Under directives from Pakistan’s army chief, General Ashfaq Kiani, who was then director general (DG) of the ISI, a low-profile plan was prepared to support Kashmiri militancy. That was normal, even in light of the peace process with India. Although Pakistan had closed down its major operations, it still provided some support to the militants so that the Kashmiri movement would not die down completely.

After Kiani was promoted to chief of army staff, Lieutenant General Nadeem Taj was placed as DG of the ISI. The external section under him routinely executed the plan of Kiani and trained a few dozen LET militants near Mangla Dam (near the capital Islamabad). They were sent by sea to Gujrat, from where they had to travel to Kashmir to carry out operations.

Meanwhile, a major reshuffle in the ISI two months ago officially shelved this low-key plan as the country’s whole focus had shifted towards Pakistan’s tribal areas. The director of the external wing was also changed, placing the “game” in the hands of a low-level ISI forward section head (a major) and the LET’s commander-in-chief, Zakiur Rahman.

Zakiur was in Karachi for two months to personally oversee the plan. However, the militant networks in India and Bangladesh comprising the Harkat, which were now in al-Qaeda’s hands, tailored some changes. Instead of Kashmir, they planned to attack Mumbai, using their existent local networks, with Westerners and the Jewish community center as targets.

Zakiur and the ISI’s forward section in Karachi, completely disconnected from the top brass, approved the plan under which more than 10 men took Mumbai hostage for nearly three days and successfully established a reign of terror.

The attack, started from ISI headquarters and fined-tuned by al-Qaeda, has obviously caused outrage across India. The next issue is whether it has the potential to change the course of India’s regional strategy and deter it from participating in NATO plans in Afghanistan.

Daniel Pipes, considered a leading member of Washington’s neo-conservatives, told Asia Times Online, “It could be the other way around, like always happens with al-Qaeda. Nine-eleven was aimed to create a reign of terror in Washington, but only caused a very furious reaction from the United States of America. The 07/07 bombing [in London] was another move to force the UK to pull out of Iraq, but it further reinforced the UK’s policies in the ‘war on terror’. The Madrid bombing was just an isolated incident which caused Spain’s pullout from Iraq.”

Pipes continued, “They [militants] are the believers of conspiracy theories and therefore they would have seen the Jewish center [attacked in Mumbai] as some sort of influence in the region and that’s why they chose to target it, but on the other hand they got immense international attention which they could not have acquired if they would have just attacked local targets.”

Israeli politician and a former interim president, Abraham Burg, told Asia Times Online, "It was not only Jewish but American and other foreigners [who were targeted]. The main purpose may have been to keep foreigners away from India. Nevertheless, there is something deeper. This attack on a Jewish target becomes symbolic.

“I remember when al-Qaeda carried out the attack on the USS Cole in Yemen [in 2000] and then they carried out attacks on American embassies in Africa, they mentioned several reasons. The Palestinian issue was number four or five, but later when they found that it had become the most popular one, it suddenly climbed up to number one position on their priority list. Since the attack on the Jewish institution drew so much attention, God forbid, it could be their strategy all over the world,” Burg said.

Al-Qaeda stoked this particular fire that could spark new hostilities in South Asia. What steps India takes on the military front against Pakistan will become clearer in the coming days, but already in Karachi there has been trouble.

Two well-known Indophile political parties, the Muttahida Qaumi Movement, a coalition partner in the government comprising people who migrated to Pakistan after the partition of British India in 1947, and the Awami National Party, another coalition partner in the government and a Pashtun sub-nationalist political party, clashed within 24 hours of the Mumbai attacks. Fifteen people have been killed to date and the city is closed, like Mumbai was after the November 26 attacks.

Ahmed Rashid on BBC blames LASHKAR-e-Taiba and rogues elements in ISI and army.

Mumbai: new evidence points to Pakistani agents | Features | The First Post

Re: We will fight india side by side with ARMY: Taliban

burqaposhx , I agree that war is not solution. And to avoid it just handover Indian nationals who are hiding somewhere in pakistan. There is no harm in capturing Dawood and other militants who were Indian nationals but acted against the country. Indian public is frustrated because even after 10-15 years politicians were not able to get hands on those terrorist.

This way Pakistan will retain their credibility with US and relation with India will go back to where it was before Mumbai attack.

at least we will be able to see few fireworks in pakistan... I'm talking about Cricket tour :)
Imagine cricket tour after mumbai attack, how much money will on 'satta' how much craze will be in public... are BCCI/PCB listening?

I agree, similarly India should handover the wanted-terrorists to Pakistan so we can settle down the issue once for all.

Why not ? If Pakistan has such a list .... things can be worked out ....

The list was posted in another thread: http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/303799-pakistan-ask-india-terrorists.html

Mickey mouse websites have no bearing … if the government of Pakistan submits it then there is something to talk about.

Seriously … the media in Pakistan must be under tremendous pressure to come up with something … is this the best they can come up with … :biggthumb

This is just getting better … did a little search and came up with this … iot seems now this story is being picked up by proper media also

Here is the link to " Mickey mouse" website and it says …

Islamabad has prepared a list of some 35 top terrorists, involved in a number of terror activities in Pakistan and is set to hand over the names to Delhi seeking an early arrest and handing over of the accused to Pakistan, The Daily Mails has learnt on good authority

The Daily Mail - Daily News from Pakistan - Newspaper from Pakistan

What is that good authority … it doesn’t say it … maybe he has a dream!!!

Now the same story is picked by “The International News” … what do they say

Islamabad has prepared a list of some 35 top terrorists, involved in a number of terror activities in Pakistan and is set to hand over the names to Delhi seeking an early arrest and handing over of the accused to Pakistan, the British daily The ‘Daily Mail’ reported on Wednesday

Isb to demand handing over of most wanted terrorists from Delhi

Will some one tell the Pakistani media they have been punked …:smack:

Re: We will fight india side by side with ARMY: Taliban

^ punked? Lets wait n watch.

A desi "mickey mouse" website print some crap .... it is picked up by a leading newspaper and "pushed" as being from Daily Mail ... London .... is there a London near Multan :D

So Dawood is directly responsible for Mumbai carnage? Or you just want to repeat the Indian government's stance? We can all read the newspapers. What do you think based on whatever you know.

The problem with Indians is that they are more into gathering Gora sympathy instead of working with Pakistan to solve this terrorist crime.

And guess what, goras says aa bacha tum say piyar karoon. Just kissi kissi huggi huggie, don't cry baita don't cry.

This is not the behavior of a world power, this is what whiny toddlers do.

Grown up India would have taken up on the offer of Pakistanis and used a few weeks to prepare a much shorter list of LeT bigwigs. Then if Pakistan had refused, things should have been escalated to goras.

The way it is, Indians ran for gora sympathy first. This is nothing new. Our region's sad history shows that for 1000's of years, inhabitants of India have invited foreigners to defeat their local neighbor and fight amongst each other. The result has been clearly anti-Indian-subcontinent. All those foreigners ended up defeating the locals and taking over the control of the region. This time it won't be different.

At least learn from some Asian powers like China and Japan, and see how they try to limit the interference of goras when it comes to their local issues.

Pak and India on the other hand go straight to goras. and you mr. aam banda are doing the same thing.

p.s. Not to distract from this thread, let me show you why Indian government is utterly $tupid. Even on the Western borders, Indians have gone to sit in the lap of Northren alliance. How can then Pakistan believe that India has changed? How can we be sure that your government will not use NA to create mayhem and anti-Pakistan trends in Kabul? Man the cold war is over, so quit shooting in your own foot. Leave Afghanistan alone and create good relationship with Pakistan. Why do you even think of Afghans at the cost of Pakistani sentiments?

Dawood is an example ... here is someome who has a red corner alert issued by Interpol ...... the "proof" which Paksitan is so fond of asking for. So what is there action ... nil nadda nothing .... it could have been a start.

Pakistan may have suffered from the same people ... but even now the establishment does not have the courage to take on them. The present government unfortunately does not have the stomach for taking on these guys. Hence the pressure from India to act.

Goras have their own role to play .... you mentioned China .... how come they did not bail out Pakistan in the present financial crisis ... they had the money ... they are flused with over 1.9 trilliion in foreign reserves ..... because they knew Pakistan is Americas .... so dont get involved there.

Afghansitan .... India does not need permission from Pakistan to operate there .....

Time for talks about "proof" are over ... it is time to act ... and act fast

haha...somebody should tell these jokers that if a war breaks out against india, it won't be a guerilla war in the caves of afghanistan or a low-intensity insurgency.

good luck to them.