AOA WRWB
I think the administrators should consider this.
If people want to come to Religion forum they need to have a special tag under their nick which would help identify what religion and sect they belong to. This would help in the following ways:
It would clarify what belief and understanding some one is coming from.
It will prevent those who want to come in a disguise and attack someone elses beliefs.
I know there is an element of bias when people will be readily identified, however that con should outway the pros for it.
The various tags can be
IS - Islam - Sunni
ISh - Islam-Shia
IB - Islam Barelvi / Sufi
etc.
and
CP - Christian Protestant
CC - Christian Catholic
etc.
some for the undecided
U - undecided
I guess admins will decide what they feel is right but here are my thoughts.
1)what if one does not believe in these classifications and tags?
2)secondly, if someone intends to cause trouble, how would tags stop that. lets assume you think that counterclockwise shirrling derveshes are hell bent on creating havoc. I being a counter clockwise whirrling dervsh would tag myself as sunni and then create trouble.
instead of tags, why dont ppl just introduce themselves and share what they feel like they want to share.
Once upon a time, I participated a lot in Religion Forum, and based on experience, here is a nugget of advice (albeit unsolicited) for you, Antumul alona: "focus on the issue/comment, and not on the person making the comment".
A supplementary advice is to not take it all too personally.
Re: tags, however altruistic your motives are in suggesting them, Fraudia gave you the practical response. It won't work, as there is no way Admins can force people to disclose their faith or be honest about it. And in some ways it may be counter-productive to discussion as it breeds stereotyping.
Lets assume we r all nice people and never lie about what we believe in but no matter what classification i fall into i will still be unique in terms of my belief’s. For e.g. my perception of a personal God maybe totally different from all others who fall in same category we chose as our basic religion.
My limited experience of watching some threads in religion forum taught me what Bertrand Russell realized long ago. “The beliefs in question are, of course, those which you do not hold”. In most cases it is an attempt to prove ‘myself’ right rather understanding the issue :o
I used to be a regular **VISITOR **to the Rel. forum
I dont (didn't) post there - What I observed was that no one is out there to have a productive or informative discussion (except a VERY limited minority), Majority of the posters come there (As Atif rightly said) to tell others why they (the other posters- who belong to a different school of thought) are wrong and then describe in vivid details all the reasons why the opponents are going to hell. This totally defensive (or offensive - whatever way you want to put it) approach to one's belief turns into really annoying exchange of dialogue - without any rhyme or reason... just name calling
O Bhai - tumhain uss kay point of view say ikhtilaaf hay - theek hay
tum apnay ghar main khush rahoo .... jazbati honay ki kya zaroorat hay
Utter rubbish.
If we filter out the religion forum, I think we would be left with a negligible number of posts that wont classify as mud slinging and are truly of a academic nature - that teach and enlighten us.
Anyway - regarding the thread starters point
I dont think it will work at all
Sure why not. While at it why don't you also make non 'IS' categories tatto a serial number in the forearm.
I am particularly sore today about this - because I got a PM from someone (mod/admin type) saying they think my question about red wine was 'mocking' to the religion and so they closed the thread! Somehow these people think a simple question can harm a religion....is faith that weak? does religion and God need such 'protection' from mods? or do I deserve to be called 'mocking' because I asked a genuine question?
So that people know, I was asking about moderation vs extreme forms of drinking wine with food. Somehow this was seen as a mock!
Just to show what I think about such (mis)treatment, I will have two glasses of redwine with dinner and guess who gets the sin? ha ha ha!
The suggestion is neither practical nor wise. The reasons are given above by other posters so I don't need to express them again. On a personal level it is very painful to realise that many within our current younger generation are so much into sectarianism and think of themselves as Shia and Sunnis etc before they think of themsleves as Muslims. Any wonder than that we are the target of ridicule all over the world. The day we think like Muslims first we will gain respect. Think about it. Antumul so long as I am incharge here no sectarian tags will be allowed.
During the golden age of Islam, every Madrasah, whether Al-Azhar, Bai-ul-Hikma, Dar-ul-Hikma, Dar-ul-Ilm e.t.c., all had 4 seating arrangements for the four schoold of thoughts and a fifth, the biggest one would be in the center where discussions, arguments, presentations e.t.c. took place in front of students so they could deduce their own conclusions...
However, in today's world we are afraid to use identifiers because it might create a rift in the believers...But then again, Muslims of that time could afford to use identifiers because they were tolerant...Knowing where another is coming from helps to create a foreknowledge of what ideas and beliefs to expect...
There is no harm in telling what your beliefs are, like this one time I shared the fact that I am a Hanafi but pray according to the Shafi'i school of thought because I found more dalaails to support the Shafi'i view...AQ came in and presented his Dalaails, Bao Bihari presented his, but hardly any 'rift' appeared...I know theirs and they know my beliefs and as a result we have come closer as brothers...
So this 'rift' scenario is moot as it has been proven to be of no consequence in the past...
Although, I agree with Lajawab, I think the best approach is what ehsan maamoo suggested.
My point of view:
Lajawab brother mentioned 4 school of thoughts.. notice, number 4 and the keyword school of thought…
Those 4 school of thoughts are never considered 4 sects!!! I believe all of them follow the correct Islam by following the Sunnah of the Prophet:saw: (from different time period in the prophet’s life)..
As Lajawab has mentioned about him praying with Rafa yadain and Aameen bis-sir… those two practices are evident by the various ahaadeeth yet Hanafi school of thought does not follow it because we find a hadeeth that prophet had stopped doing it at the later part of his life… there is nothing more and nothing less.. prophet never said Do not do it..
Having said that, the reason I agree with eshan maamoo :halo: is because of the advent of new Islam in Muslim Ummah, which are not even considered muslims by Ijmaah due to their denial of various fundamental beliefs that constitute faith - The Islam. One great fitnah among them is of Munkireen-e-Hadeeth - the Hadeeth rejectors.. the perveziat, the Khalifa Rashaadiat etc…
and it is one thing, the talks about Qadyanism (from india), Bihaism (from iran) and many others are not even mentioned…
Tagging all those above sects and calling them muslim is a shame in itself. Perhaps, school of thoughts can be a good idea but not the sects.. Please.
Well to all and specially EHSAN as he is director.
First off I am the biggest proponent in my personal understanding that If you follow the deen of Allah SWT and the sunnah of his Prophet SAW then you are classified as nothing but “MUSLIM”.
However, reality is that people come to discuss with clear biases and beliefs.
They have clear divisions in their minds. Why? becuase other than the secular and modernist ones, are trying to learn their own beliefs. So they are following the basic human instinct of defense vs. actual learning. People don’t like to accept they are wrong. All of us are like that. It is not easy. Any how it was only a suggestion.
And I agree that those who come with the sole intent of creating havoc, will still misuse the tags.
I mean, introductions would do the same, but then, the same problem applies there as well.
And also let me tell you that this is not coming from a youthful mind. Even though Ehsan Mamoon as some one put it () thinks he is the oldest, which may be the case, many of us are quite mature, married, living practical islamic lives.
I guess admins will decide what they feel is right but here are my thoughts.
1)what if one does not believe in these classifications and tags?
2)secondly, if someone intends to cause trouble, how would tags stop that. lets assume you think that counterclockwise shirrling derveshes are hell bent on creating havoc. I being a counter clockwise whirrling dervsh would tag myself as sunni and then create trouble.
instead of tags, why dont ppl just introduce themselves and share what they feel like they want to share.
agreed but the current situation in Religion is like a big bowl of soup. can you really distinguish the chicken in it from the other stuff?
May be we should think of sections inside the religion forum for specific schools of thought.
I dont (didn't) post there - What I observed was that no one is out there to have a productive or informative discussion (except a VERY limited minority), Majority of the posters come there (As Atif rightly said) to tell others why they (the other posters- who belong to a different school of thought) are wrong and then describe in vivid details all the reasons why the opponents are going to hell. This totally defensive (or offensive - whatever way you want to put it) approach to one's belief turns into really annoying exchange of dialogue - without any rhyme or reason... just name calling
O Bhai - tumhain uss kay point of view say ikhtilaaf hay - theek hay
tum apnay ghar main khush rahoo .... jazbati honay ki kya zaroorat hay
Utter rubbish.
If we filter out the religion forum, I think we would be left with a negligible number of posts that wont classify as mud slinging and are truly of a academic nature - that teach and enlighten us.
Anyway - regarding the thread starters point
I dont think it will work at all
agreed.
So why not a section for those who want academic discussions on certain schools of thought.
During the golden age of Islam, every Madrasah, whether Al-Azhar, Bai-ul-Hikma, Dar-ul-Hikma, Dar-ul-Ilm e.t.c., all had 4 seating arrangements for the four schoold of thoughts and a fifth, the biggest one would be in the center where discussions, arguments, presentations e.t.c. took place in front of students so they could deduce their own conclusions...
However, in today's world we are afraid to use identifiers because it might create a rift in the believers...But then again, Muslims of that time could afford to use identifiers because they were tolerant...Knowing where another is coming from helps to create a foreknowledge of what ideas and beliefs to expect...
There is no harm in telling what your beliefs are, like this one time I shared the fact that I am a Hanafi but pray according to the Shafi'i school of thought because I found more dalaails to support the Shafi'i view...AQ came in and presented his Dalaails, Bao Bihari presented his, but hardly any 'rift' appeared...I know theirs and they know my beliefs and as a result we have come closer as brothers...
So this 'rift' scenario is moot as it has been proven to be of no consequence in the past...
WA WRWB
Yes I think I was approaching the matter in the same way. But maybe the admins don't even want an academic discussion. That would take the spice out of it. and it might become dull and boring.
And you are right, tolerance within the right aqeedah has disaapeared.
yeh ..its a joke on GS and especially in religion...
people are just out here to poke fun at others beliefs and
quest for truth = my way or the highway...
to most...
) thinks he is the oldest, which may be the case, many of us are quite mature, married, living practical islamic lives.
good joke! keep them coming :biggthumb