Re: We shall overrun: The young, urban, middle-class Pakistani’s manifesto
cAlm down people.
It is just a light hearted take on an otherwise grim situation.
The only exception to the essay that I'd make is that "The young, urban, middle-class Pakistani’s" include both the Punjabi and the Mohajirs and they both show very similar tendencies towards internal and external challenges.
Though Mohajir "young, urban, middle-class Pakistani’s" do have addtional gripes such as those pesky Sindhis, and the quota system.
Both Punjabi and mohajir "young, urban, middle-class Pakistani’s manifesto" are delusional and love to use Islamism in order to further their perceived objectives and they both dream that Islamists shall overrun the West, either through terror or through baby-making process.
In essence the disease is pretty common among educated elite of the whole Pakistan and not just punjab.
However Punjab does contribute more because they happen to be 8-10 more than Mohajir elite numbers, many many times more than educated elite in other urban centers around the country.
some good stuff... didn't read the whole thing but reflects the views of pakistanis...
there is a little too much bhutto going on in the beginning though.
Yes. He fails to realize that zulfi Bhutto tried very hard by using Islamo-socialism (Zulfi's term and not mine)
in order to please the "young, urban, middle-class Pakistanis". And he was very popular after taking such $tupid decisions such as declaring Ahmadis as kafirs, starting shalwar kameez fashion, banning alcohol from restaurants etc.
But then the same "young, urban, middle-class Pakistanis" dumped Bhutto's "Islamo-socialism, and instead opted for
the 9-black-bearded-stars and their manifestor of "Islamo-fascism".
And oh BTW, all this transformation happened when Zia was a lowly general.
While in the late 70s Punjabi educated elite went from Zulfi's socialism to Maulana's Islamism,
during the same period, Mohajir educated elite went from Jahalite Islami's Isalmism to ethnic fascism (and again this happened before Zia was a lowly general).
There is a separate thread about some Lahore High court judge, making the claim that all these suicide bombers are in fact Hindus (or something along these lines).
Pathetic, that we have HC judges of this poor calibre.
^ Please check definition of the word and I believe Pasha sb's views are extremist considering any standard definition of the word.
come now, dont beat about the bush. Post a definition of extremism, and show which of his views meet the definition. Not trying to be tedious, but just to see what these words mean to you.
There is a separate thread about some Lahore High court judge, making the claim that all these suicide bombers are in fact Hindus (or something along these lines).
Pathetic, that we have HC judges of this poor calibre.
I am not saying that the judge is right, but, how can you be so sure sitting in your office/desk and "googling" these things. One advantage the judge over you is that he is local and connected to the law enforcement. May be, just maybe, there is some truth to it. You did'nt think India was sitting idly by after Mumbai bombing? Did you?
Ravage, here is a reality check for you. Pick any ethnic hatred thread related to Punjabis and you will see the light.
Just because his last name sounds "foreign" to you, does not mean that he is a Punjabi. Mohajirs and Karachi folks always had a danda up theirs you know what about Punjab and Punjabi people (you know it very well).
Foreign Ref: A friend of mine who is from Karachi, and yes he is a mohajir and was very involved with formation of the MQM when they stood for something related this to me. He was posted on a job with the steel mill. On his first day there, he made it a point to go out and meet his workers and colleagues. As he was making the rounds, he asked one of his colleagues if there were any foreigners working in the steel mill. The guy replied yes, there were several. He asked " How come we have not seen any today?". Here is the kicker" Bhai sahib, wo butt sahib, punjab sey hain, malik sahib lahore sey yehan aian hain. Foreigners he too hain". This is the mentality of the Karachites and mohajirs.
I do see how you ignored the actual content of the post. If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, guess what. it is a duck. Paracha may have roots in Punjab (it talsk about his father, not him) but I am positive he was born and raised in Karachi or lived his adult life there. Just like I thought
I do see how you ignored the actual content of the post. If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, guess what. it is a duck. Paracha may have roots in Punjab (it talsk about his father, not him) but I am positive he was born and raised in Karachi or lived his adult life there. Just like I thought
Punjabi is an ethnicity. Karachi is not.
Do you mean to tell me that people who's parents are punjabi but are born in, or live in Karachi cease to be Punjabi? What are they then?
Amazing how you say 'it talks about his father, not him'.
Please define what exactly a Punjabi is.
While you're at it, please also tell me whether I am Pathan, since I spent most of my time in Pakistan living in NWFP.
top article by NFP. sums up all the contradictions of Zaid Hamid and Musharraf's facebook groupies. many of who can be found on this forum as well.
sometimes the Taliban are a Hindu/Israeli conspiracy. then, they become resistance fighters. sometimes they're all agents of our enemies... then they become momineen.
Do you mean to tell me that people who's parents are punjabi but are born in, or live in Karachi cease to be Punjabi? What are they then?
Amazing how you say 'it talks about his father, not him'.
Please define what exactly a Punjabi is.
While you're at it, please also tell me whether I am Pathan, since I spent most of my time in Pakistan living in NWFP.
To me a person who never lived in Punjab is not Punjabi. Plain and simple. You chose to define yourself as Mohajir not me. My point remains, Parcha is a hack who does not knwo anything about Punjab, however, has a lot of opinions about Punjab. I have never in my life felt the ethnic hatred from another Pakistani except from people who are mohajirs or hail from Karachi. It is a sad truth. Heck I have not been discriminated against here is US. I have been living here for over 20 years now ( in the south, mind yoou), but somehow, the people from Karachi/Mohajirs have found a way to hate people from Punjab. Why dont you go ahead and explain that to me rather than going after semantics of what defines an ethnicity?
To me a person who never lived in Punjab is not Punjabi. Plain and simple. You chose to define yourself as Mohajir not me. My point remains, Parcha is a hack who does not knwo anything about Punjab, however, has a lot of opinions about Punjab.
He is, however, a Punjabi. Unless you can provide an alternate definition of the ethnicity of Punjabi. Living in Punjab or any particular area doesnt change your ethnicity. I lived in Punjab for 3 years. Then NWFP for a little more than 4. At no point did I become any other ethnicity.
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I have never in my life felt the ethnic hatred from another Pakistani except from people who are mohajirs or hail from Karachi. It is a sad truth. Heck I have not been discriminated against here is US. I have been living here for over 20 years now ( in the south, mind yoou), but somehow, the people from Karachi/Mohajirs have found a way to hate people from Punjab. Why dont you go ahead and explain that to me rather than going after semantics of what defines an ethnicity?
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For one, Im not going into semantics of what defines an ethnicity. I am very clear on what defines it. By standard definitions of ethnicity, NFP is a Punjabi. You have these weird criterions of punjabi, which basically suggest that if someone is born in Karachi his ethnicity isnt Punjabi. Im asking YOU to elaborate on YOUR criteria for being classified punjabi.
As far as your sad history with discrimination, thats such nonsensical, anecdotal stuff. I can tell you equally truthfully that I've felt ethnic hatred from Punjabies. However my best friends are Punjabi and Pathan. I dont generalize based on the occasional idiots I run across, neither should you.
Re: We shall overrun: The young, urban, middle-class Pakistani’s manifesto
Just because your father is form Punjab, does not make you understand Punjab or Punjabis. It does not give you the right to ridicule them while sitting in bhung induced trance in Punjabi. I fathom that is what Paracha does.
As far as smentics are concerned, you do know that Mohajir is not an ethnicity. You may like it to be, but it is not. It is simply tells me that you or your ancestors migrated from another place. Why exatcly do you choose to associate yourself with that?
I dont particularly associate myself with it, I dont particularly disassociate myself with it. As far as I am concerned it is a concept that does have a particular meaning in Pakistani culture, and it covers me. As do a number of other identities, that I am more strongly attached to.
now I just scan your post for the words “Islamist” “Islamism” “Jihadist” “jihadism” “Tribalist” “triablism” “talibot”
(which means 90% of your posts)
don’t bother with poshy, he thinks his googling skills are superior to actual experience on the field.