Re: We are the problem
yes insan got weight and Karina was moti in her first movie 
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How are we the problem? we have no control over anything. The government/establishments are the problem. They only teach negative about the other side, not good or positives. Only negative stories are highlighted not any positive ones when positive stories do exist. Only difference is they lack an audience. There are, however, people working towards peace despite all these events. So many peace events or events of cultural exchange have been cancelled by politicians, so many things banned. It’s a wonder there is as much harmony between people when any attempt to get to know the other is frowned upon. I had a Pakistani housemate one year ago and I got asked by other housemates and random people whether we would get along/or if there would be issues because our countries hated each other and if it was like North Korea/South Korea and I just explained that it was nothing like that and there is friendship between people mostly. We share a similar culture and he used to call my parents “uncle, aunty” and my parents would bring his favourite sweets and food when they would visit as he might be homesick. Attempts by children for a peace concert at the border was cancelled a few years ago, attempts by Bopara-Qureshi for a tennis match across borders and various other peace attempts being squashed due to lack of visas. There are lot of Pakistanis at my workplace and we get along great and we easily bond over similarities. Just the other day I had the opportunity to chat to an elderly lady from Lahore and we bonded over the fact I was born in Delhi and her father taught in delhi before partition. I told her all I knew about Lahore and she was impressed. I said the world should know more about the beautiful sights in Pakistan. She agreed and when her daughter came by the next day she said I should go to Lahore to visit my new friend (her mother). We were speaking in Urdu and I had to translate for a friend listening nearby who was curious. So I basically had to explain the whole history of india-pakistan partition..luckily I was reading gupshup so I was totally on top of my india-pakistan history.
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[quote=“muqawwee123, post:4, topic:286924”]
yes insan got weight and Karina was moti in
True as an insan rather than a bird if I was flying i’d probably fall because of the insaani weight and due to my bad luck i’d land in between the border. lol. Come on yaar Karina was fully figured then ab woh anorexic ho gayi hai. lol I prefer to watch a real Punjabi girl like Reema 
aur kyon ki woh Lahore se hai. When I go to Lahore I will meet Reema, Meera, Iman Ali , Ali zafar, Atif Aslam etc. And in my dreams mera bhi aise swagat hota hai jaise urmila ka hota hai video mein. and like Saurov Gangulyin 2004 I get to experience the historic Pakistani hospitality and I also get discounted/free things like awesome Pakistani salwar suits. Interestingly Karina’s ancestors like Raj Kapoor were from Peshawar but of Punjabi background. Like a lot of Bollywood stars have Pakistani roots like Anil Kapoor, SRK and the Khans, Dev Anand, Raaj Kumar from Balochistan, Yash Chopra, Dilip Kumar. Actually SRK, Dilip Kumar and Raj Kumar lived on this one street called Qissa Khwani in Peshawar and all 3 houses are within 200m of each other.
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Frankly speaking, that’s the main and the concluding point of every Indo-Pak peace debate. The fact these two countries, despite all the political animosity and bloody history can still be considered fairly peaceful rivalries is a mother of all accomplishments. Therefore, India and Pakistan must maintain this level formality and restrain at any cost. Any other superficial romantic measures to make Indian and Pakistan brothers in arm is not just straight up delusional and but pretty dangerous too. India is a strategic threat too Pakistan and Pakistan is to India, both countries are fighting proxy wars in every corner of South Asia and to say and to say we share same culture (?) to lets all hug and make up is a very foolish thought. I rather have people to be aware of how deeply these both countries involved in harming each each through proxies than mislead the masses by highlighting all the wonderful songs Atif Aslam has sang for the Bollywood movies. People of showbiz, from both sides of the border, have always been friendly with each other so there’s nothing new or significantly assuring about that.
Until and unless Pakistan sorts out all its security concerns, Pakistan must be vary of all its so called friends and definite foes. We the people of Pakistan have bigger problems to deal with than worry about masses’ perception of India the country.
P.S. I really appreciate your posts.
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I am not being combative…i am being realistic… you don’t go chums with a country where at separation millions of people were killed …where 4 wars have been fought…and there has been active arm race and coercive foreign policy…the insurgencies being supported and terrorism and whatnot…
All of this could have been avoided if Pakistan simply gave in to the indian superiority right from the start…but that didn’t happen… india never accepted pakistan’s right to exist either…
bottomline…too much shizzz in the recent history…
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Off topic. Hope OP wont mind.
It may be a wrong assumption that North and South Korean people do not like each other.
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you are the OP yaar. you’re the boss (within gs guidelines). you can tell us what is allowed what is not. Own your OP-ship. I don’t think North and South Koreans get along as well as Indians-Pakistanis. Or much at all. My South Korean housemate was telling me he doesn’t even talk to North Koreans. Some Chinese-Taiwanese have similar relationship.
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but future history could be different. Umeed to karni chaiye..when you come overseas you might see inspiring scenes such as this Butt Sahib. every corner you turn you may come across Indians. hum se bachna mushkil hi nahi asambhav.
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I am speculating here. But that could have something to do with the fact N Korea is shunned in the West. Essentially relatives are on either side of border.
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It may be but i don’t think even North and South Koreans who meet outside of Korea get along well. I can’t say about within Korea but they do have an acrimonious past, with border disputes/incursions and a war. Korean Demilitarized Zone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Last one in 2010 where 6 people were killed and 70 houses were destroyed. But now they are working on things together. But now they have joint ventures and the border is used as a tourism site Foreign Tourists Flock to Border Between North and South Korea - SPIEGEL ONLINE If India and Pakistan try to capitalise on economic benefits of tourism and trade things could improve. Actually, a number of business leaders both Indian and Pakistani came to talk to Pakistan to talk to children but of course such videos no one watches. All the high rated ones are the India-Pakistan military/war related videos. I mean in a way we are the problem we don’t talk or build upon things we have in common but we always look for differences. Like there are so many potential historical tourist sites of Hindu, Buddhist or Christian origin in Pakistan like the Sikh gurudwaras which could attract millions of tourists, help the economy, but they are left in disarray. It would take fraction of a military budget to preserve. Similarly, plenty of Muslim sites in India which could be aimed towards Muslim tourists in Pakistan like Ajmer Sharif. My parents went there last year it was an awesome place. I mean I have Indian student friend here and they gel much better with the Pakistani students than some of the local Indians. I think both India and Pakistan when things are friendlier and more secure could promote the other side. Like in the West there are lot of negative stereotypes about Pakistanis as Indians we look similar and we have the power to dispel those myths as we probably have more interaction with Pakistanis than those who are ignorant. There has been this one occasion when an older white guy, who was a patient where im at, was generalising against Pakistanis and talking about why they want to impose their rules on western society etc. Probably because when they show Pakistan (and India) here they show images of rallies and protests against the West but not usually the younger generation who is not like that. I mentioned that to him. It didn’t take long to explain that it is wrong to generalise and there are many Pakistanis, even around him working to help him, that do not think that way and he apologised. Similarly, maybe Pakistanis can help Indians with image problems in places like Middle East where Pakistan has a more favourable image. For example places in Dubai south Asians are similarly discriminated. Like this mall in Qatar where desis are not allowed at particular times probably because most of them there are workers. The truth is from a distance most countries cannot differentiate Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi etc Sure some Indians and Pakistanis might not look same they might look white or Arabic but most of the world characterises us as similar. However, I am also sure that in general an average Pakistani person would get a more hospitable reception amongst an average Indian than amongst a European or middle eastern person.
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Good post.
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Thanks. As the silent peaceful majority got to make our voices known
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I haven’t seen the movie but this song really hits at the core of what we want the future to be. Do we want to sow the seeds of a better tomorrow or do we want endless conflict which will benefit no one to continue in the long term? Best line-Hum apne apne kheton mein
Gehoon ki jagha, chawal ki jagha
Bandooqen kiyon botey hain
jab dono hi ki galyon mein
Kuch bhookey bachchey rotey hain
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And that is precisely the sentiment that is missing among the status quo hawks.
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True. What the hawks in both media and government lack is made up by the ordinary person. Especially our Film Industry and the arts/written establishment. They always promote peace between India and Pakistan. A number of movies are made around this sentiment not to mention numerous books are written. The Jaipur Literary festival features many Pakistani writers who also win awards. So to paint one aspect as being war mongering and so everyone else is as well is quite sad. I can not speak of Pakistani films but definitely many Bollywood films emphasise this similarity when set overseas they show Indians and Pakistanis as similar and like family. Maybe it wasn’t always like this but it is now. As you can see all players have flags of both countries painted on their faces in Namastey London. Then you see facebook groups like Ban Bollywood in Pakistan which has 25000 likes and one that says ban Pakistani artists in India which has 93 likes and you think even film/creative arts is not spared this rivalry by hardcore people. My parents watch Pakistani dramas and there is no issue. I think we should be the change we want to see. I think we shouldn’t respond with dislike/hate if there are Pakistanis who dislike/hate Indians. We shouldn’t fall into that trap. The best way to respond is with love. If there are Indians who dislike/hate Pakistanis we should likewise instead of reacting similarly to them explain to them why they are wrong with many examples. We should treat everyone as individuals because as humans we have that ability to differentiate. I’d rather a Pakistani friend with similar thoughts to me than a hate filled Indian. Hate can never win against hate and it can only melt away with friendship/love. I have a Pakistani friend and I let her know if I learn something new about Pakistan or watch a new Pakistani drama and she updates me on Bollywood. I always congratulate her when Pakistan wins, especially against India, and she always tries to bring up Indian team wins. It’s a tough time to be open about advocating peace in the media when there is tension all round but the majority is definitely peaceful. On India-forums, an entertainment site, there is a whole section dedicated to Pakistani dramas and there was an 11 page thread on Pakistani independence day wishing people happy independence day. There are attempts to reduce visa issues between both countries. Petition · #Southasia Ease visa restrictions, let people meet #MilneDo - Vereinigte Staaten · Change.org In the last year there have been much exchange during the border with Indian/Pakistani poets meeting Poets from India, Pak come together to relive pain and pleasure - Indian Express with cricketers playing together etc and beautiful words spoken by Saurav Ganguly about the love he received in his trip to play in Pakistan in 2004-05.
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There are a number of sites/media that promote peace between India-Pakistan apart from aman ki asha and friends without borders. India, Pakistan, Make Love, Not War We should discover similarities that bring us together whether literature, poetry, cinema, sport rather than differences. An interesting read. Pakistan-India ties: Promoting friendship through shared cultural identities – The Express Tribune People think of partition and think of people who were killed because of bloodshed they don’t think of the many others from opposing communities who did not form part of mob violence and who helped their neighbours escape so they could reach safely. In 2012 Tahir Malik, a journalist from Lahore, co-authored a book with Indian journalist Tridivesh Maini called “Humanity amidst insanity.” They talked about survivors of partition who owe their lives to members of other communities and who were only able to escape because of them. It talks of Muslims who were only able to reach Pakistan because of help from Hindus and Sikhs and of Hindus/Sikhs who were only able to reach India because of Muslim neighbours. Unfortunately, these stories do not generally form the basis of the national narrative. People never hear of this side. It is mentally easier to group one type of people and think of them as one thing. It is harder to differentiate and realise there is lot of grey in the black and white.
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i lost my huge comment that i posted so i will be succinct. I was initiallygoing to start a positive indian and Pakistani thread with positivecontrbutions of Indians and Pakistanis and ways to think forward and actuallydiscover those positive stories of collaborative work that does not reach themedia. However i don’t know if it would be that much an active thread so maybelater. I don’t know if it would eventually turn into an argumentative threadeven if the intention started out positive. India and Pakistan share a lotof cultural, geographical and historical ties which are passed on with eachgeneration and cannot ever be fully erased which is why there will always bepeople for peace because there will always be people who want to know the otherside. I have a Pakistani friend on skype who lives in a conservative area ofPakistan and he is always curious about India. His parents don’t really encourage it but he asks me questions and sendsme information on pre-partition Pakistan. I have numerous friends from Lahore and Karachi who tell me they see no difference between Indians and Pakistanis. Everyday an estimated thousandsof Pakistanis and Indians form friendships. This generation, in their 20s,which has yet to come to power is less combative than others which livedthrough wars. The next friendliest is probably those who lived during partitionin peaceful times and remember pre-partition era fondly. The superficialromantic thoughts are not just an abstract idea but it is reality. I have comeacross Pakistanis living in Pakistan i have met online and they see meas family or friends at the very least and they are always quick to pointout similarities. Sometimes it is the Indians and Pakistanis living overseaswho are more bigoted. Subcontinental people, in general, are veryemotional and they can be stirred to think in a particular direction. This isnot something someone thinking just rationally as wedo in the West can understand. You can give a rousing speech onIndia-Pakistani similarities, the positive interaction betweencommunities and make a whole crowd think of friendship or you can draw onbloodshed in history and make people hate each other. In the hands of goodpoliticians India-Pakistan could have been a different story. We can’t changethe past but we can change the future. I don’t think the politicians orgovernments can be good friends but I think change starts from the grassrootslevels. If there are proxy wars being affected , how does that affect thecommon person? Do we have any say in these proxy wars? Then why should we paythe consequences for it? I agree maybe the Indian and Pakistani living in Indiaor Pakistan may always have some mistrust for the other but it doesn’thave to be this way especially if they live overseas. I’m sure governmentsfight proxy wars not just with other countries but within their own countrywhen they want to get rid of opposition. I’m not saying we should forget aboutthe past history which is negative and we should all be friends. At least wecan talk about the positive aspects, why does that have to be omitted fromhistory? Is it because it will make the enemy seem more “human”? Irealise there are some Pakistanis and Indians who would never want to befriends with each other but not all are the same. I wouldn’t want to forcefriendship but at least they can remain indifferent or neutral or if they wantto hate they can hate without as long as it does not negatively impact others.For example if some people disagree with Bollywood they don’t want to watch it,why be vocal for it to be banned and deprive others who want to watch it. Ifsome people in India don’t want Pakistani artists to come to India, thenthey should not go to concerts etc but why deprive others who want to listento good music. People should know that the governments are notalways friendly and maybe harming each other but why should they transfer that hateonto common people and ban things. It’s not just entertainment industry, itsartists, writers, sportspeople, business people, students (there are a fewexchange programs that between India and Pakistan) and professionals that havefriendly relations. Does that mean all that should be affected becausegovernments have negative relations? I agree in part with you but at the sametime i don’t think superficial romantic measures are delusional. I guess it’sall about perspective. An Indian living in Delhi or overseas and a Pakistaniliving in Karachi or UK will think differently to Indians and Pakistanis livingclose to the border etc. A week ago I met an elderly woman from Lahore whosefather had taught in Delhi where I am from. We bonded over that and she wassurprised i knew so much about Lahore, in particular the famous saying. I toldher Pakistan also had my cultural heritage and there were manyamazing things about Pakistan the world knows little of. She agreed andshe wished things were like how they were back in the 60s. She said manymonuments are not being maintained such as Lahore fort and Badshahi mosque. Ireassured her by saying that Nawaz Sharif is Punjabi and he willdefinitely take care of it. She told her daughter about me and thenext day when she came to visit she gave me a hug and said i should visitLahore to see the places i’m interested in. Sure we can’t all have thesesuperficial delusions and I am sure my reasons would not work for people whodon’t want interaction with the other side but at the same time interactionbetween Indians-Pakistanis can have that effect. A lot of that is bound tohappen with the internet. At the same time we can’t stop a small boygrowing up in Dera Ghazi Khan of dreaming to visit the Taj Mahalbuilt or a young girl from Rajasthan, whose ancestors migratedfrom Sindh in Pakistan, dreaming to visit the tomb of ShahbazQalandar, A sufi mystic revered by both Muslims and Hindus, inSehwan, Sindh. Or the fact the root word India came from Indus river or thatthe word “Hindu” originated from Indus river which flows throughPakistan. The histories of both countries are linked in many ways. Evenpoliticians who simultaneously may promote hate through their governments canget wrapped up in this. How else do we explain Manmohan Singh’s hometownvillagers celebrating his victory and treating him as a son of the soil and himreciprocating by helping them with electricity and warm water to the localmosque in his village. Blogs & Commentary | The Express Tribune](Blogs & Commentary | The Express Tribune) Orhow Nawaz Sharif’s village in Indian Punjab celebrated his victoryand how he has helped some of the villagers who knew his father with jobs inDubai. http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-05-12/india/39203006_1_pml-n-mian-mohammad-sharif-sharif-family Orhow the people of Peshawar who belong to the street where Dilip Kumar, SRK’sfamily and Raj Kapoor’s family are from are from celebrate this factand are proud of them. Or how Gulzar, a famous poet withroots in Pakistan, visited his home village recently to great fanfare andwas so overwhelmed with meeting long lost friends and his memories of hishometown he had to leave early. Or the love Yash Chopra had for hishometown of Lahore which resulted in blockbuster Veer Zaara. While this all mightseem irrelevant it shows that along with the negatives of the partition thereis lot of emotion and links which have not yet been broken and there willalways be this romanticism in the subcontinent. Online there are a fewIndian entertainment forums like India-forum.com where Pakistani serials arediscussed and there are a number of Pakistani members where friendships betweenIndians-Pakistanis blossom like gs. http://www.india-forums.com/forum_topics.asp?FID=56.There was even a Pakistani Independence day recently. http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3700204 Theway forward is through economic prosperity and education. If every person inIndia, Pakistan had a job, had food, was educated and not living in poverty fewwould get swayed by hatred. I think you will find this forum debateinteresting. It’s based on a mixture of Indian and Pakistani businesspeoplecoming to Pakistan and discussing with Pakistani students how the way forwardis through economic prosperity. The partition had many atrocities and bloodshed but there were also many tales of humanity with people from opposing communities risking their life to save others. You may also find this an interesting read. http://ipfc.info/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=106
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sorry Southie. I have turned your thought provoking thread into a thread on positive Indians and Pakistanis but i think this could be a solution to the problem. More representation of positive stories. It doesn’t mean the negative is not shown or highlighted but why should positive stories be neglected. I found this video quite touching of Shammi Kapoor’s long lost friend who went to Pakistan after partition and how they met on the net.
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Before people think I am obsessed this is my last video (videos) on this topic. This is a touching poem by Gulzar, who was originally from Dina in Pakistan. Or the passion Dev Anand had for Gurdaspur, Lahore, his hometown and his unfulfilled wish to make a Pakistani film with Pakistani actors at 19 minutes Or Dilip Kumar’s memories of his early days in Peshawar . It’s interesting to know how many well known Actors/actresses had their roots in Pakistan such as the Kapoor family, the names mentioned above, Raaj Kumar from Balochistan and Manoj Kumar from Abbotabad. Not really related to the thread but it shows how a lot of them have this desire to go back and maybe if things were better in both countries they may have had more chances in their lifetime. Lata Mangeshkar also wanted to perform in Pakistan but it never materialised she mentions in this Dawn news interview. Her friendship story and how Noor Jehan inspired her is quite sweet. This is at 5:28 and Noor Jehan also mentioned her, her memories of her time in Calcutta, Mumbai and her desire to meet her in her latter days which was also sweet of her . Her last movie pre-partition was the original Mirza Sahiban in 1947, the famous tragic Pakistani Punjabi love story, directed by K. Amarnath being remade today with Sonam Kapoor. MIRZA SAHIBAN-1947.-complete film ( urdu)-A Tribute to Madam Noor jahan - YouTube Also, recently Rahat Fateh Ali Khan sang the songs in the Punjabi version of Mirza Sahiban released last year.
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Love your energy and sincerity Delhi Lahore Karachi!! You are most welcome to take this thread in the positive direction that you are taking it. Nothing would make OP happier.
Indians are in a quandary. Much as we would like to congratulate our nrighbors on the latters’ victory in head to head contests, such instances are rare, if not non-existent.