We Are Slaves

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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yes this was the answer of a Kashmiri when we meet him in Haram Shareef.

I was very lucky to have been blessed to visit the Holy places. and this is when we meet them in our hotel. they invited my dad to their room for a chat as they quite excited to have a pakistani around.

my father went to them and exchanged few words with them. the kashmiris said that they always look towards Pakistan and they are afraid that Paksitan may leave them.

one of them said that an indian military officer has said to him that the way pakistanis used to come here to support u now they will come to help us(indians) locate u !

the other guy said that i have always prayed to Allah that first take me to PAkistan and then to Ka`aba and he said my prayers were asnwered. as he had fligth from Delhi to Karachi n then to Jeddah. he said that when he reached karachi he bowed down and kissed PAKISTAN

just to share with you guys…

as last nigth Ahmad Bilal (FM 101) DJ very rigthly said that yeh nafsa nafsi ka aalam hai insaan ko sirf apni hi fikar lahiq hai…

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Re: We Are Slaves

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ophiolites: *
he said that when he reached karachi he bowed down and kissed PAKISTAN

[/QUOTE]

u feel sorry when u think what pakistan was supposed to be and what it has become....
but its heartening to see ppl still looking forward to it....
may Allah one day make Pakistan the place it was intended to be by those who laid down there lives for its emergence....

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^ very true and i guess now its time for us to play our role.

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Re: We Are Slaves

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ophiolites: *

the other guy said that i have always prayed to Allah that first take me to PAkistan and then to Ka`aba and he said my prayers were asnwered. as he had fligth from Delhi to Karachi n then to Jeddah. he said that when he reached karachi he bowed down and kissed PAKISTAN

[/QUOTE]

Eww don't know if i'd pray for that!! Hopefully your father misunderstoof it!

Its just that my first trip abroad was to mecca, madina! since then i have seens tons of downtowns, city centers., and what not.. NOTHING is as impressive as haram sharif!

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Re: Re: We Are Slaves

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by kiyani: * NOTHING is as impressive as haram sharif!
[/QUOTE]

very true indeed

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I feel sorry for the Kashmiris, but what can we do?

We cannot get IOK of India by force. Impossible.

We should just reach some agreement, even if its just keeping the bit both states have and allowing some sort of dual control over the valley, or whatever.

Kashmir is never going to join Pak. India is too powerful now.

Meh. Feel sorry for the brother.

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^ If India is powerful then there is someone with Supreme power- Allah. We never ask him for strength,. In fact we have abondoned him. Nothing is impossible. Actually our coward leaders have started teaching stupid lessons. Yes India can be dealt with planning. We have to reduce its power, break it, ourselves be strong and bring it down to knees. We must have ur influence on atleast our Muslim brothers (countries) who have friendship with India. I would blame our policy. We are isolated and only rely on US. We just need to realize who we are are and orgnaize ourselves. First of all , death penalty for anyone speaking against the Two Nation Theory!

I also had the previlage of going for Haj in 2001. I also met a Kashmri in Makkah. The first thing he told me was Kashmir banega Pakistan. I was so excited to meet him and so was he. We had a long chat. He was critical of Pakistani media for turning so unIslamic. His point really made sense. If there was no difference between left between Pakistan and India than what would be the need to join Pakistan by Kashmiris? I had no answer.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by laeeqkhan: *
The first thing he told me was Kashmir banega

[/QUOTE]

And I have met countless Kashmiris who do not want to have anything to do with Pakistan. Ab bolo?

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *

And I have met countless Kashmiris who do not want to have anything to do with Pakistan. Ab bolo?
[/QUOTE]

Your experience is yours and mine is mine.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by laeeqkhan: *
^ If India is powerful then there is someone with Supreme power- Allah. We never ask him for strength,. In fact we have abondoned him. Nothing is impossible.
[/QUOTE]

Allah never asks Momineen to commit suicide either. In fact suicide is haraam.

Allah however exhorts people to work hard, be patient, be just, and do good work (Sura Asr).

We as Pakistanis do not work hard, are not patient, are not just, and do not involve in good deeds for the world. The result as predicted by the Allah Subhanhu is clear. We are the losers (Sura Asr).

Shouting Takbir or Allah is the first step but we treat it as the final step. Pakistanis did use their brains until 1970s. Then the combination of defeat in the East, and an impending war with commies in the west turned us into fanatics. Thanks to Allah's help via USA, we were able to ward off the commies. Now is the time to get back to basics and start working our backs off.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by laeeqkhan: *
......death penalty for anyone speaking against the Two Nation Theory!
.....
[/QUOTE]

Noop! That's not kosher. It is against freedom of speech. If you are that angry, cast your vote in Karachi and get rid of MQM. (I am sure you are referring to the bungled statements of Altaf during his recent trip to Bharat.)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by laeeqkhan: *
.... He was critical of Pakistani media for turning so unIslamic. His point really made sense. If there was no difference between left between Pakistan and India than what would be the need to join Pakistan by Kashmiris? I had no answer.
[/QUOTE]

Pakistanis have to save themselves from the fanatics bombing Pakistani-Shias, harassing Pakistani-Ahmadis, and incarcerating Pakistani-Christians. Unfortunately these fanatics are the biggest champions of Islam.

Kashmiris will come to Pakistan if we can show Azad Kashmir to be more prosperous and more democratic compared to IOK. Let's keep Islam out of Kashmiri politics. It hasn't helped in the last 60 years and it won't help in future.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
Allah never asks Momineen to commit suicide either. In fact suicide is haraam.

[/QUOTE]

Dear AOBL, we as muslims are ordained by Allah to put the truth out without putting our national or tribal interests upfront. Are we doing that or are we able to do that is a separate issue but we should make sure that we put the complete picture. For sure suicide is haram, but then Allah loves momineen's Istishad. So now you can argue until the cow comes home who is a momin and who is a shaheed. But Allah loves those who give out their lives in his sake.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
Allah however exhorts people to work hard, be patient, be just, and do good work (Sura Asr).
[/QUOTE]

Dear once again you are reading too much in just one sura, and also by putting a distorted translation of sura. Allah also "exhorts" muslims to stand out for justice on more than one occasion in Quran. So lets read the sura again… it starts with a condition,...

By Time, Man is in loss, Except those who beleive, and do rightious deeds and gather togather for the sake of truth and in patience.

So the first conditions is to be a believer, and then by standing out for justice you are doing a good deed, and then by supporting your brethren in difficult time you are supporting their patience.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
We as Pakistanis do not work hard, are not patient, are not just, and do not involve in good deeds for the world. The result as predicted by the Allah Subhanhu is clear. We are the losers (Sura Asr).

[/QUOTE]

Where you are right you are right, but you have to put the argument in the right order for some one to be a loser, (sura Asr) the Human race is in loss, Except (firstly) those who believe..., so dear if your a believer in Allah then you can live in Tamil Nadu and not be a loser or you can be Nankana Sahb and not be a loser, so this Pakistani argument is not valid by this sura. For sure in Pakistani a vast majority of our political elite/the army/ people are not just because they don’t know any better and as along they are gathering for Haq (* watawasaw bialhaqqi*) other than Allah they will be losers.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
Pakistanis have to save themselves from the fanatics bombing Pakistani-Shias, harassing Pakistani-Ahmadis, and incarcerating Pakistani-Christians. Unfortunately these fanatics are the biggest champions of Islam.
Kashmiris will come to Pakistan if we can show Azad Kashmir to be more prosperous and more democratic compared to IOK. Let's keep Islam out of Kashmiri politics. It hasn't helped in the last 60 years and it won't help in future.
[/QUOTE]

Pakistanis should try to save the lives of all Shias/Christains/Ahmdis even if they are Pakistanis or not Pakistanis. Being muslims Allah wants us to be ambassadors of justice and not for tyranny. Showing Kashmir’s the prosperity will never be enough until we don’t have a balanced approach of condemning injustice and supporting justice on the basis of Islam.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
Let's keep Islam out of Kashmiri politics. It hasn't helped in the last 60 years and it won't help in future.
[/QUOTE]

AOBL, please stop sending conflicting messages, you start with Sura Al Aser and then at the end you say that keep Islam out of politics. So you have a source of providing justice to people other than Quran, if that’s the case then why base your arguments on Quran. Just because some thing didn’t happen in 60 or 84 years you think it will not happen, that’s for sure is a very strong sign of faith in Islam. Politics or no politics 60 or 80 years hold no value, it’s the word of Allah which comes first. Just for starters read this Aya again and again, its from Quran, so you might understand why Muslims in Pakistan support the Kashmiri’s

** 49:10 The Believers are but a single Brotherhood**

We as muslims might not do justice if we don’t support muslims in other parts of the world, for that I am sure Allah will make us accountable for not being consistent for his sake.

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Allah however exhorts people to work hard, be patient, be just, and do good work (Sura Asr). where are those ayats of Quran where muslims are directed to go for jihad. is this not a duty of a muslim to protect and defend other muslims when they can not do it themselves ?

The most easiest thing in Pakistan and among Pakistanis is to interpret Islam as per their own will, such that neither their modernizm is effected nor Islam.

*Pakistanis have to save themselves from the fanatics bombing Pakistani-Shias, harassing Pakistani-Ahmadis, and incarcerating Pakistani-Christians. Unfortunately these fanatics are the biggest champions of Islam. *

*There is nothing as such, and its all media propaganda which is reflected in ur views. Shias have been attacked and certainly it can not be allowed in any case don't forget they are on the key positions in Pakistan. Foriegn elements also play vital role in all this mess so that an impression can given that minorities are not secure in Pakistan. *

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ophiolites: *
*Allah however exhorts people to work hard, be patient, be just, and do good work (Sura Asr). where are those ayats of Quran where muslims are directed to go for jihad ?
.....
[/QUOTE]

People who are not just, nor patient, and don't do good work are simply stupid. They are inherently incapable of carrying out Jihad. The only thing these Mullahtic idiotics can do is spread anarchy.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ophiolites: *
*Pakistanis have to save themselves from the fanatics bombing Pakistani-Shias, harassing Pakistani-Ahmadis, and incarcerating Pakistani-Christians. Unfortunately these fanatics are the biggest champions of Islam. *

*There is nothing as such, and its all media propaganda ... *
[/QUOTE]

Yeap. Blame it on media and Bharat and then go to sleep for the next 3 years. The carnage at Pakistani-mosques and churches is as real as sun or moon or .... Anyone refusing to notice this bloodshed needs to get his head examined by competent authorities.

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[QUOTE]
Anyone refusing to notice this bloodshed needs to get his head examined by competent authorities.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]
People who are not just, nor patient, and don't do good work are simply stupid. They are inherently incapable of carrying out Jihad. The only thing these Mullahtic idiotics can do is spread anarchy.
[/QUOTE]

Mr. antiobl i must say that you have very interesting views on the subject and not many people have the ability to analyze as good as you can.

How would you justify all that has happened in Falluja ? Bosnia ? Kashmir ? Palestine ?

Remeber East Temor where Christians were in majority and how it was liberated, west playing major role.

People who are not just, nor patient, and don't do good work are simply stupid.

How can one remain paitent when muslims are in such situation ?

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ophiolites: *
**Mr. antiobl* i must say that you have very interesting views on the subject and not many people have the ability to analyze as good as you can.
[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your kind words.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ophiolites: *
How would you justify all that has happened in Falluja ? Bosnia ? Kashmir ? Palestine ?
[/QUOTE]

Noone can justify the blood and carnage. However if you want the reasons why some places are in trouble. Then the reason is simple. People in all these places slept for the last 60-100 years (depending on the region) and didn’t follow the golden rules of justice, patience, goodness, and tolerance.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ophiolites: *
**People who are not just, nor patient, and don't do good work are simply stupid.*

How can one remain paitent when muslims (Falluja, Bosnia, Kashmir, Palestine) are in such situation ?
[/QUOTE]

On a much smaller scale of problems, think about a guy who did not study for 12 years and then failed in his FSc, (high school, or A-levels) exam. He has no right to burn the exam center while protesting his failure. There is no short cut to the 12 years of study. He has to go back to books and prepare for the second attempt. BTW The concept of second attempt should not be new to you as many take that route in Pakistani schools.

Individuals may appear in an exam once (or twice), but the nations go through exams on daily basis. If a nation fails once, it needs to get up and be ready for another exam tomorrow.

Muslim in the troubled areas must go back to basics as per Quran's commentary on Time immemorial (Asr). Instead of complaining about past or present, be a believer, then truly believe in justice, be righteous (courteous, and tolerant), and then be patient. You will be better off tomorrow. This is the promise of Allah as per the Asr.

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U are welcome

Don’t forget that we are also part of this ummah (hoping that u r a muslim) otherwise atleast i am. If a boys fails fine he has no rigth to burn the examination hall just becuase he failed due to his own mistakes but on the other hand his naighbour also have no rigth whatsoever to punish him on failing the exam. It is totally his personal matter that he passes or fails or whatever. I hope u got my point.

Even if for a moment it is supposed that its becuz of muslims themselves which is all happening today how would u justify the foriegn involvement ?

The reference of Asr which you r constantly giving is not full solution to this big mess. What is required first of all is TOOBA.

We have to ask Allah for forgiveness and start a new journey on the track of Mohammed:saw: He was a believer, believed in justice, courteous and tolerant to degree we can never think of but he also went out to figth against the eveil.

Today All of us want that muslims get out of this mess but none of us is ready to play his part. To play my part I will have to sacrifice few things and this Miss Sacrifice has died long time ago.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ophiolites: *
U are welcome

Don't forget that we are also part of this ummah (hoping that u r a muslim) otherwise atleast i am. ....
[/QUOTE]

hah! This is another favorite of Mullahtic idiotics. Gather a group of beggers and theives and call it "Ummah".

Baba! Ummah was supposed to be a group of righteous, noble, and patient (saabir) people. What we have now is more like "dirty dozen" trying to get Junnat (freedom) through violance.

Try some other argument dear ophi.