We aim to set up Islamic govt, not topple Musharraf

We aim to set up Islamic govt, not topple Musharraf: Qazi Hussain
(Agencies)

18 April 2004

ISLAMABAD - A top leader of an alliance of religious parties in Pakistan has said that the ultimate goal of the opposition is to set up a truly Islamic society and not to seek ouster of President Gen. Pervez Musharraf.

“We reject violence or the use of force as the tool for change in government,”

Qazi Hussein Ahmed, acting president and parliamentary leader of the Muttahida Majlise Amal (MMA) and chief of Jamaate Islami (JI), said during a media briefing here. Qazi Hussein Ahmed also said that “due to its geographical location and historical position Pakistan is bound to take the lead role in the so-called US-led war against terror.” “The US is the root of all violence and terror all over the world.” Its policy is based on aggression. While we reject violence, we support legitimate resistance in the case of Palestine and Kashmir," he added.

Regarding the recent confrontations between the Pakistani army and the operatives of Al Qaeda and Taleban, Qazi Hussein Ahmed said: "This military intervention is unjustified; it is a response on part of Musharraf to the US dictation. “The peaceful solution and negotiations with these tribes and Mujahideen are preferred rather than shedding their bloods,” he said.

“Our support to the Kashmiri resistance against the Indian occupation takes a number of forms: we are an Islamic political party expressly supporting the Kashmiris’ right of self-determination, which is recognised by the United Nations. Our support to the Kashmiris is moral, political and diplomatic. If the Kashmir issue is not solved, both the neighbours will remain in dispute,” He said.

Qazi Hussein Ahmed indicated that he has no link with or information about the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden. “We used to be in contact with him during the Soviet invasion to Afghanistan. At that time he was staying in Peshawar,” he added.

So what are your thoughts on this isl?

Volume 1

Salam to all,

While it might be true that the MMA and the likes are interested in establishing a proper Islamic state and not in overthrowing a particular politician or general, there is a lot of groundwork that needs to be laid out if such an enterprise is to have any reasonable chance of succeeding.

I have spent some time in Pakestan and while there I quickly became fascinated the land and its people. So I would like to think that I can also contribute here by sharing some views I might have as an “outsider”/Arab.

(1) Ignorance: The first thing that needs to be addressed is to eradicate the widespread ignorance amongst the masses about Islam. Unfortunately, on too many occasions it seems that many have tried to reconcile Islam to alien culture practices and factors and, in my view, Islam is too strong and robust on its own, if you try to reconcile it with anything else: kaboom! – it won’t work. You see if you do not have support of the masses, you will end up trying to “police” them and that cannot work in today’s Pakestan. This needs to be promptly addressed by anyone trying to achieve what the JI or MMA or whoever claims to be trying.

(2) Stop living in the past: Many Pakestan people stop dead in their tracks when they hear about the fact that there are so many Muslims in India (almost as many as Pakestan). This need not and should not be the case.
Pakestanis should realize that not ALL Muslims supported the idea of their liberation back in 1947: that’s life – deal with it. Islam teaches us that there are all kinds of people in every society and Muslims are no exception. Numerous Hindi Muslims (Hind= India in Arabic and Hindi is the adjective) are happy with the way things are for them: a secular country with 85% Hindus in the population. To drive home this point let’s look at some other Muslims from India: “maulana” Azad (who was against the liberation/creation of Pakestan till the very end), Salman Rushdie (yes, he is a British citizen of Hindi origin), Akbar “the great” – the Mughal ruler who conjured up “deen-e-Elahi” and who incidentally is a hero for many Hindus AND Hindi Muslims, ex-Chief Minister of Hindi-administered Kashmir, Farooq Abdulla, the numerous hindi Muslim actors and actresses and sportsmen who love Hind and loathe Pakestan. I am not saying all Hindi Muslims are like that but the fact is that most in power or a position of influence are in fact like that. I mean come on, the so-called father of hind’s nuclear missle programme is a Muslim! Do you think he would hesitate to hurt Pakestan? The answer is no.
So all I am saying is that Pakestan needs to adopt a very cautious approach indeed – they should not allow themselves to be confused by Hindi Muslims of the genre mentioned above. Remember, if it was upto them, Pakestan would be undermined at every possible opportunity.

(3) Realizing Pakistan’s potential: There is very little doubt that Pakestan is arguably the world’s most strategic country: you’ve got Iran to the West, Afghanistan and the Central Asian connection to the Northwest, China to the north, my beloved Arabian peninsula to the southwest and lastly Hind to the east. What’s puzzling is the fact that 99.9% of Pakestan’s energies are fixated on the one particular alien eastern neighbour – what a waste!. Is India the only country with whom there can be “relations with”???? Why??? You can make Peshawar a trading hub with Central Asia, Quetta a hub with Iran, Karachi and Gwadar with Arabia and then IF you really want, Lahore with India. All I am saying is that I think Pakestan needs to perform a long over-due exercise of re-aligning itself. There is no point being unnecessarily mesmorized with India!. I don’t think sports events and “cultural activities and exchanges” will achieve anything concrete where it really matters. Pakestan needs to be more inward-looking and focused on getting itself going (and there are other ways besides growing economically in India’s shadow!)

Conclusion coming up! :)

Conclusion is here!

(4) The Indian mind-set: Now under the present conditions, you have to consider the "India-factor"; well where does India fit into all this? I think India is playing a really really really clever strategem.

(a)You see off late India has been experiencing record economic growth. So the current “hand of friendship” has more to do with the potential economic bonanza India stands to gain with a “friendly” Pakistan as opposed to a hostile Pakestan. The fact is that there has been an influx of multinational corporations (mnc’s) in India recently. Now many of these multinationals have investment commitments in India ranging from the short-term to medium-term time horizon (say 15-20 years max.). What’s keeping these mnc’s from establishing and investing from a long-term time perspective? Take one wild guess: the danger of an armed conflict with Pakestan!. So the mnc’s and the other consultants are of the view that India will grow at an exponential rate if it “normalizes” relations with Pakestan.
Indians are dreaming big these days and they might well achieve it. Most Indians (we have MANY here in Dubai), are very easy to deal with, hardworking. Sorry guys, but Pakestan people also work hard but they are harder to “discipline” – they are far more emotional and passionate but all that extra energy needs to be harnessed in a controlled manner for the benefit of Pakestan as a whole as well!. So India is desperate to rub shoulders with the likes of China, South Korea and, to a lesser extent, Japan and Russia in the region.
(b) A growing economy needs oil & gas: (hehheh! lucky for us in Arabia that crude oil is still needed in everything from aircrafts to computer parts manufacturing to the synthetic fibres in the very clothes you are wearing. And what is potentially the cheapest source of oil&gas for India? An overland pipe-line that runs from Iran to India; and guess what? : that pipeline will cross 1,000kms of Pakestan territory. So of course its in India’s interest that the pipeline cross 1,000kms of a friendly Pakestan instead of a “hostile” Pakestan!
Sure India does not NEED Pakestan but the fact is that there is more it gains by having cordial relations with Pakestan. So that’s the rationale for the “hand of friendship” as far as I can see. Come on Pakestan, don’t tell me you seriously believe that the current “peace steps” are based on a sudden and overnight change in people’s lives who have incessantly and openly opposed Pakestan or its driven by desires in the heart to see peace before the end of a term or life of particular politicians! Please tell me you are not that naïve!.

We can go on and on and on but maybe later. I better take my own advice here and stop discussing India! J

(5) In conclusion: my view, after spending time in Pakistan (and very little in India) is that the true thrust of Pakestan's liberation has not been achieved - it has been achieved on a world map but as long as Pakestan remains spell-bound and fascinated by India (judging from the energies expended on India), then the nothing much can change.
And BTW, I don't know what's so great about hindi movies that Pakestan people cannot live without them! I mean I have people in my home who watch it as well but I just don't get it (I don't watch them myself!) How do i know this? well - when hindi actors and actresses come to Dubai - you see Pakestan people making the most noise and booking the front seats - even more than hindi people! So I just ended up observing this on several occassions as I have Pakestan friends who try to drag me to these shows! (but I leave generally after 10 minutes!!!). And the best part is that these same people call me and grumble about a particular hindi movies plot which demonizes Pakestan! (well d'uh! what did you expect??!) - I just tell them: serves you right - why do you go the cinema and spend 3+ precious hours of your life watching hindi movies then if you don't like their plots!!!!!!!!

In a nutshell: Pakestan's moment of truth seems to be fast approaching: Indus Valley or Islam? :) (those parts of the Indus Valley culture that go blatantly against Islam).

Good luck Pakestan - you do have the potential - stop wasting it! and realize that you are worth more than a "peaceful partner growing economically in Hind's shadow"!!!. I have lots more to share but let's see if I get the chance.

While the MMA or JI or whatever may have noble intentions, I believe they are not upto the task under the present circumstances. In fact they have some controversial characters as well TODAY amongst their ranks, who may not have agreed with Pakestan's liberation (from danger of being inundated by alien influences) in 1947!.

Anyways, I hope I have evoked emotions and thoughts - I'd like to contribute positively here. Am impressed with all the knowledge being displayed here in so many posts.

Yalla, ma'salama
Fee-amanillah

First of all...welcome. Welcome...El-Turki...on Gupshup. Thanks for your views! I would like to comment on one of the points you raised which I think is inaccurate.

[Quote]
"Pakestanis should realize that not ALL Muslims supported the idea of their liberation back in 1947: that’s life – deal with it. Islam teaches us that there are all kinds of people in every society and Muslims are no exception. Numerous Hindi Muslims (Hind= India in Arabic and Hindi is the adjective) are happy with the way things are for them: a secular country with 85% Hindus in the population. To drive home this point let’s look at some other Muslims from India: “maulana” Azad (who was against the liberation/creation of Pakestan till the very end), Salman Rushdie (yes, he is a British citizen of Hindi origin), Akbar “the great” – the Mughal ruler who conjured up “deen-e-Elahi” and who incidentally is a hero for many Hindus AND Hindi Muslims, ex-Chief Minister of Hindi-administered Kashmir, Farooq Abdulla, the numerous hindi Muslim actors and actresses and sportsmen who love Hind and loathe Pakestan. I am not saying all Hindi Muslims are like that but the fact is that most in power or a position of influence are in fact like that. I mean come on, the so-called father of hind’s nuclear missle programme is a Muslim! Do you think he would hesitate to hurt Pakestan? The answer is no. "
[/Quote]

It is not true that many might not have supported the idea of Pakistan like maulana Azad. However, it is a fact that it is the Muslims that stayed back in India that also contributed towards the making of Pakistan. When general elections were held before partition, most Muslims came out and opted for Pakistan, regardless of the fact that they would go there or not.

Dear brother in Islam, you mentioned Salman Rushdie. I am amazed you even took his name, who wrote such evil words against Islam. The so called "Akbar the great" is rightly not liked my Muslims, since the general ignorance about real Islam is partly because of his mixing of Islam with Hinduism. I believe, that those actresses and actors and all those who love Hind do not have sound knowledge of Islam or the events that go on around them. Just to take an example, you must also consider how much Indian Muslims pray for Pakistan even during a cricket match. Amidst the rising tide of Hindu nationalism , Muslims of India have no choice but to obey and love their masters.

You raised a very thought provoking issue!:

In a nutshell: Pakestan's moment of truth seems to be fast approaching: Indus Valley or Islam? (those parts of the Indus Valley culture that go blatantly against Islam).

I think we need to ponder over this much more.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
So what are your thoughts on this isl?
[/QUOTE]

I do not agree with all that Jamaat says. They surely need to change their strategy. However, I do generally support Jamaat's ideology.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Islamabad: *

I do not agree with all that Jamaat says. They surely need to change their strategy. However, I do generally support Jamaat's ideology.
[/QUOTE]

In what way do you feel that they should change their strategy?

Re: We aim to set up Islamic govt, not topple Musharraf

Well mabye we dont want a MUSLIM Government! Islam is a religion and should stay out of politics! Long live the republic of Pakistan!

Re: Re: We aim to set up Islamic govt, not topple Musharraf

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by The_Deleted_One: *
Well mabye we dont want a MUSLIM Government! Islam is a religion and should stay out of politics! Long live the republic of Pakistan!
[/QUOTE]

Wrong name of country. We are the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, and the nation as a whole should be encouraged to be Islamic in nature and not merely in name.

Re: Re: Re: We aim to set up Islamic govt, not topple Musharraf

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *

Wrong name of country. We are the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, and the nation as a whole should be encouraged to be Islamic in nature and not merely in name.
[/QUOTE]

Sorry about missing out Islamic, but by overtly declaring our religion will that make us more religious? And why cant we just be Pakistan and a Muslim country at the same time, must we mix religion with politics?

[quote]
A top leader of an alliance of religious parties in Pakistan has said that the ultimate goal of the opposition is to set up a truly Islamic society and not to seek ouster of President Gen. Pervez Musharraf.
[/quote]

How gracious of him.

El turki, interesting observations. I suppose there is a point in there about why should a country disown it's past, which is a lot bigger part of their history, and subjugate it to another more recent.

Ever wonder why alot of Indonesian names are derived from sanskrit even though they are muslims? It's about being comfortable in one's skin. When someone disowns their past in favor of a new identity, they invariably are more fervent in clinging to that new identity. finding some kind of moral, cultural, religious basis for doing so. Na yahaan key rahe..na vahaan key..

Why isn't he seeking ouster of musharraf? Who will fight the jihad?

^How come that Indonesian names are derived from Sankrit? The Vedic civilization and Sanskrit was brought by Aryans to the Indus valley. I've read somewhere that the purest Sanskrit was spoken in Gandhara. Around 500 BC some aryan tribes went furhter southwards and introduced their aryan culture and their Sankrit language to the local people (to the forefathers of todays Indians). Well, Sanskrit is imported to India, not indigenous. So how come that all indian names are derived form Sanskrit today, why have they given up their pre-aryan names?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by shawaiz: *

Around 500 BC some aryan tribes went furhter southwards and introduced their aryan culture and their Sankrit language to the local people (to the forefathers of todays Indians). Well, Sanskrit is imported to India, not indigenous. So how come that all indian names are derived form Sanskrit today, why have they given up their pre-aryan names?

[/QUOTE]

Not all Indian names are of Sanskrit extraction. In any case, how would you know, neither do you know all Indian names nor do you know their history, so I suggest you leave the generalisations aside.....

In any case, Matsui's point was

"It's about being comfortable in one's skin. "

See, in India there is a guy named Ram Thakur outside of Udaipur who owns a small tchotchkies shop, he is muslim. And Feroz Bhatnagar is a hindu. Tells ya something.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Toddytapper: *

Not all Indian names are of Sanskrit extraction. In any case, how would you know, neither do you know all Indian names nor do you know their history, so I suggest you leave the generalisations aside.....

[/QUOTE]

but it seems you know everything about me...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
See, in India there is a guy named Ram Thakur outside of Udaipur who owns a small tchotchkies shop, he is muslim. And Feroz Bhatnagar is a hindu. Tells ya something.
[/QUOTE]

no, it doesn't, please elaborate...

It means dear chanda that religion is a personal thing. But culture is an amalgamation of historical influence. They are separate things. this is why Pakistanis are second class citizens in Arabia...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
See, in India there is a guy named Ram Thakur outside of Udaipur who owns a small tchotchkies shop, he is muslim. And Feroz Bhatnagar is a hindu. Tells ya something.
[/QUOTE]
It tells they are both very confused?