Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!

[Crescent]

Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!

@mercenary2k

So you are saying you never blamed Israel for this death?

You just said in a previous thread that you blamed Israel even without proof because Israelis are like this…

dude, your logic has no coherence, or sense, or structure

just say what every one knows

you are justifying the actions of the Taliban because they have 3 foot beards and think people like me are not true muslims and if they kill people by blowing them up then that is acceptable since their lives are less valuable since they are not true muslims to begin with

when Israel kills 100 palestinians, you start threads venting your anger against Israel because a Jew killing a Muslim is unacceptable but if a Taliban kills Pakistanis then that is acceptable since that Pakistani cannot have been a true muslim and so no harm done

You have not started a single thread condemning the actions of these people and try put the blame on Pakistanis by saying some phantom group is behind this and your Taliban cannot be possibly behind this

Its people like you why Pakistan has such a great name around the world

Keep it up…the destruction of Pakistan is your goal…

Sure, whatever you say :k: Now go buy a cookie for yourself.

[teggy]

Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!

We need to clean up FATA, no more eldgers meetings, Jurga style government.

2) Government may have to relocate some Siraki, Baluchi, Sindhis and Urdu speaking into these 2 regions/provinces.

3) PPPP should open their Party office in these regions, PPP elected governor.

4) Regional development plan to support local business, Technical schools to provide vocational training.

5) Education system should be developed so no child is left behind. Islamic Madaris should be under the government regulations.

Madaris should use South Africa Islamic curriculum (Islamiate, Science, math).

More Schools, Colleges and Universities should be established in the region.

Sounds good.

[teggy]

Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!

The difference between Turkey taking on the PKK and Pakistan taking on these animals is that in Turkey, most Turks were behind their government

while, in Pakistan, people like you, cresent and sharaabi are openly hostile to Pakistan's well being and believe the future lies with these animals

Or that the Turkish Govt. didn't take action until the people were united behind it.

Same thing.

Pakistani people are NOT behind the Govt. well ex-Govt and their policies, hence a failure.

I know you like to point fingers and name names. But like i said before and i'll say again, just because someone differs with your "view" doesn't make him/her/it any less credible. Just makes you seem ridiculous, frankly speaking. :)

[Aalsi]

Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!

I don't know why people are worried. With Zardari and NS leading their parties to form the govt next week, all the terrorist activities will end and Waziristan issue will be resolved. Not long to wait now.

[pride]

Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!

@Aalsi

don't know why people are worried. With Zardari and NS leading their parties to form the govt next week, all the terrorist activities will end and Waziristan issue will be resolved. Not long to wait now.

Your sarcastic wisdom sometimes irritates a lot. Can you give up this idiotic rehtoric? Mush who has created this mess in 9 years, it will take 10 years to correct this ugly situation. when you tried to be funny, keep all perspectives in mind.

[Sa1eem]

Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!

@ehtasab

What was Pakistan doing before US invasion of Afghanistan? Was Pakistan fighting against the Taliban or supporting Taliban?

No, Pakistan was not fighting Taliban and how could Pakistan fight Taliban? Is Taliban a country that Pakistan would fight Taliban? Pakistan is not fighting Taliban even now. I have never heard that Pakistani forces are entering Afghanistan to fight Taliban. What Pakistan is doing is, Pakistan is trying to control Pakistani area and fighting those who are using Pakistani territory to wage their war in Afghanistan. Pakistan cannot allow anyone to use Pakistani territory to fight war in Afghanistan, and if anyone does that, Pakistan have to fight them, as if Pakistan would not, consequence would be bad for Pakistan.

Pakistan had diplomatic relationship with Afghanistan before US invasion and they kept that relationship with Afghanistan after US invasion and even now Pakistan has diplomatic relationship with Afghanistan. No big difference.

As for supporting, what you mean, what type of question is that? Should Pakistan support one government in Afghanistan or another? Pakistan had good relationship with Taliban government in Afghanistan as long as they were in government. Today, Pakistan wants good relation with new government. Pakistan good relation with Taliban was mostly based on reason that Taliban was American stooge whom USA money got them into power. If America had supported NA, most likely Pakistan would have supported NA. Actually, that was the case before Pakistan switched supporting NA to Taliban, because it was NA that fought Russia and in past use to be called Mujahedeen and who Pakistan was supporting.

Reason is obvious. For Pakistan, American is more important ally than Afghanistan or any other country. Pakistan depends financially, militarily, as well as for external politics on American. On the other hand, Afghanistan depends on Pakistan but Pakistan does not get anything good from Afghanistan (except drugs, crimes, smuggling, extremism, terrorism, instability, suicide bombers, and retarded mullahs).

Taliban were losing against NA before US invasion? Care to cite any article? Yes Taliban failed to completely take over Afghanistan, specially the northern part where NA dominated. But Taliban were not losing any other areas from what I know.

No, but what it has to do with Pakistan? American pulling off their support from Taliban and bombing Taliban was good enough to turn the table against Taliban. Taliban could not have fought any war against NA without the support of their Master USA, because even food, drink, cloths, and arms that Taliban were using was coming to them from USA and American allies, and it was Pakistan (again on American direction) who was negotiating with most tribal leaders to accept the rule of Taliban.

Actually, war between Taliban and NA was proxy war between pro-American and anti-American forces in Afghanistan. if Taliban was having some upper hand over NA, it was mostly because of American help and their direction to Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and UAE to help Taliban. Saudi Arabia, UAE and Pakistan were only 3 countries who recognised Taliban government in Afghanistan (all 3 were close allies of USA in the region). On the other hand, NA was getting help from Russia and Iran (both were helping anti-American war in Afghanistan).

After Taliban started biting American hand that was feeding them, USA decided to ditch Taliban. American 2 close allies, Saudi Arabia and UAE, stop recognising Taliban government, closed Afghanistan embassy in their country, and sent Taliban ambassador back to Afghanistan. Only Pakistan declined to accept USA demand to stop recognising Taliban government.

Pulling support for Taliban and then providing support to US in its war against Taliban is termed “making a U-turn” which in Taliban’s term is “betrayal”.

Well, if what you wrote above is called ‘making U-turn’ than that is ridiculous and silly thought, don’t you think so?

First of all, if Pakistan was supporting Taliban against NA than that was not obligation on Pakistan, it was just good will gesture without any return. Actually, what I know, Taliban was providing refuge to Pakistani criminals involved in sectarian violence in Pakistan, and when Pakistan demanded them, Taliban declined. Result was that there was lot of grievances in Pakistan administration against Taliban. Pakistan also wanted Taliban to negotiate a political solution with NA, but Mad Mullah Umar though that he was Khalifa.

Anyhow, Taliban had no right to expect any support from Pakistan, though Pakistan did supported Taliban government in Afghanistan at their own cost (breaking sanctions against Afghanistan under Taliban, plus keep recognising Taliban government in Afghanistan after 9/11 against USA desire).

As for Pakistan supporting USA, Pakistan did supported USA in providing them logistic support and other facilities. It was Pakistani interest, and Pakistan has all right to safeguard Pakistani interest. Further, Pakistan was bounded to it as Pakistan depends on USA as USA helped Pakistan throughout, since early 1950s. USA is biggest trading partner of Pakistan. Most of Pakistani military equipments, financial backings, and political standing in the world come from USA. Pakistan is also bounded to USA with many treaties. If anything comes in UNO Security Council, Pakistan always relied on USA to protect Pakistani interest … Russia protecting interest of India.

What Taliban gave to Pakistan and what treaty Pakistan had with Taliban government in Afghanistan?

Dude, why did Pakistan army bomb Waziristan? Is it because Asif Zardari was hiding there?

If you read my previous post carefully, you would not have asked this question. Anyhow, answering you again: Pakistan bombs Waziristan because there are elements in Waziristan who cross Pakistan border to attack forces in Afghanistan. Pakistan could not allow this as Pakistan does not want bad relation with government in Afghanistan, USA, and NATO. On the other hand, this is dangerous for security of Pakistan too, because if Pakistan could not stop that crossing and also admit that they could not stop that crossing, then USA and NATO forces in Afghanistan would have all right to bomb Waziristan, as people in Waziristan are fighting them after crossing Pak-Afghan border.

So, what Pakistan should do? Let USA bomb Pakistani territory (Waziristan) because Pakistan could not control people in that territory, or control people in Pakistani territory and if needed, bomb them?

[ehtasab]

Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!

What Pakistan is doing is, Pakistan is trying to control Pakistani area and fighting those who are using Pakistani territory to wage their war in Afghanistan. Pakistan cannot allow anyone to use Pakistani territory to fight war in Afghanistan, and if anyone does that, Pakistan have to fight them, as if Pakistan would not, consequence would be bad for Pakistan.

See there you forgot one point. Pakistan allowed those foreigners/Taliban/AlQaida to cross the border when US was bombing Afghanistan. Now Pakistan is fighting the very same element PLUS the support these people have garnered in all this time by "preaching".

[quote]
As for supporting, what you mean, what type of question is that? Should Pakistan support one government in Afghanistan or another? Pakistan had good relationship with Taliban government in Afghanistan as long as they were in government.
[/quote]
oh bhai, ye LIP service kisi aur ko dena. Pakistan engineered Taliban and continued their training and material support (US may have been involved as well) until US invaded Afghanistan. After the invasion Pakistan supported the same elements by providing them refuge.

[quote]
Today, Pakistan wants good relation with new government. **Pakistan good relation with Taliban was mostly based on reason that Taliban was American stooge **whom USA money got them into power. If America had supported NA, most likely Pakistan would have supported NA. Actually, that was the case before Pakistan switched supporting NA to Taliban, because it was NA that fought Russia and in past use to be called Mujahedeen and who Pakistan was supporting.
[/quote]
See there, thats one of the reasons people say Pakistan is fighting someone else's war.

[quote]
Well, if what you wrote above is called 'making U-turn' than that is ridiculous and silly thought, don't you think so?

First of all, if Pakistan was supporting Taliban against NA than that was not obligation on Pakistan, it was just good will gesture without any return.
[/quote]
I am not suggesting Pakistan was obligated either. But supporting an enemy when you were good friend (or best-buddies) is bound to turn them into enemy as well, and that is a "U-turn" whether you consider it silly or not.

[quote]
As for Pakistan supporting USA, Pakistan did supported USA in providing them logistic support and other facilities. It was Pakistani interest, and Pakistan has all right to safeguard Pakistani interest.
[/quote]
Pakistan does have all the right to safeguard its interest, but Pakistan also is required to keep its citizen protected in which it failed when they asked the tribals to host the Taliban/AlQaida.

[quote]
Further, Pakistan was bounded to it as Pakistan depends on USA as USA helped Pakistan throughout, since early 1950s. USA is biggest trading partner of Pakistan. Most of Pakistani military equipments, financial backings, and political standing in the world come from USA. Pakistan is also bounded to USA with many treaties. If anything comes in UNO Security Council, Pakistan always relied on USA to protect Pakistani interest ... Russia protecting interest of India.
[/quote]
You mean US helped Pakistan in East Pakistan against India too? Did US help Pakistan on Kashmir issue?

[expatobserver]

Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!

Azad Waziristan zindabad!