So it seems like Wazirastan wants to act like a state within a state and is waging an open war against Pakistan and its people. Why not give them what they so deserve: FREEDOM. Declare them not a part of Pakistan, and take our protection away from them. Then Sharaabi’s and Crescent’s brothers don’t have to cross the border into Afghanistan to help their “Afghan Mujahideen”, the enemy will come to them. The only thing that has kept from being bombed into oblivion is Pakistan, and this is what these *******s pay us with? We have taken so many hits, economically, politically, culturally, socially (sports event being canceled) just over the animals from this area. Well give them freedom, declare them a non Pakistan territory and let them wage their Jihad. No one has ever conquered these tribals you say? Well no one has considered it worth it. But now people have reasons, let them be their own state and we’ll see how brave these tribal animals really are!
Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!
Oh please....
Cut the mellow-drama, will ya! Name calling will only make you look less of a intelligent voice. So how about you stop pointing fingers at fellow posters and think outside your head for once.
The reality of the matter is Waziristan is a part of Pakistan, and that it will remain.
Just like you're bent on forcing your opinion on others, you should be willing to hear/listen/read to others opinions too. MANY, and majority of the Paki public thinks it's not Pakistan's war...and they've just adopted it.
Hard to swallow? I thought so...
Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!
Are you sure the suicide bombers are coming in from Waziristan and not other FATA? Or do you mean let ALL of FATA go independent? If they are given total "independence", how are we going to safeguard our country? All the roads, terrains are open to them.
I doubt they are asking for "freedom". They want to force their interpreted Sharia on the land and its not restricted to FATA.
Do you know how many madrassahs operate throughout the country which will VERY VERY likely side with them or support them? All the mosques in Karachi that I have visited which have a "madrassah" as its "side-business" hosts people from north-west side of Pakistan, I can't say if they are from FATA or NWFP. I don't mean to suggest we should be "scared" of them, rather to keep that in mind, that we'll need to tackle that aspect as well.
Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!
I am not calling the "fellow posters" any names. Quote the line where I have done that.
I can handle their opinions and am not advocating their banning. But for their justification of suicide bombings and attacks against Pakistanis, I should be able to call them out and point out their outrageous stand. I am sure they don't have a problem being identified with the positions they take. Tumhein keon mirchain lar rahi hein.
And I don't need your assessment of my intellect. I am dumb, more than you think, but I won't stand for terrorizing and blackmailing of Pakistanis.
Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!
Just like you're bent on forcing your opinion on others, you should be willing to hear/listen/read to others opinions too. MANY, and majority of the Paki public thinks it's not Pakistan's war...and they've just adopted it.
I agree that it was someone else's war, but now it has become Pakistan's war as well, "panga le liya hay". The likes of TNSM (who tried to take over Malakand in early 90s for Shariah) are now hand in hand with people like them (so-called-Islamists). Its not a clear border anymore.
Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!
^Exactly!
It's the issues that need to be addressed, not bring up wild ideas on how to MAYBE prevent suicide bombing. Who's to say they won't urge others states to want to declare independence. Then what? Are we gonna say Ok Punjabistan, Sindhistan, and Balochistan are all countries.
Gimme a break....
Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!
Hey don't tell me that the Islam of FATA is superior to Islam being practiced Faisalabad, Multan, and Sahiwal. FATA should be able to have a country of their own and enjoy their own laws. Obviously they don't like the 'non-Islamic' culture of Pakistan. They should be able to live the way they like. Surely you do want them to have that freedom, don't you?
Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!
I am not calling the "fellow posters" any names. Quote the line where I have done that.
I can handle their opinions and am not advocating their banning. But for their justification of suicide bombings and attacks against Pakistanis, I should be able to call them out and point out their outrageous stand. I am sure they don't have a problem being identified with the positions they take. Tumhein keon mirchain lar rahi hein.
And I don't need your assessment of my intellect. I am dumb, more than you think, but I won't stand for terrorizing and blackmailing of Pakistanis.
For everytime you've called them "out", they have come and posted in response. You just never seem to get the message.
They're not justifying the killing or anyone. From what i've read, they've come to refocus where the issue lies as a whole. I see nothing wrong with a difference of opinion.
Some people see political parties as the problem, some see the President as a problem. Tomato Tomaato.
Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!
They justify it.
Tribal people have grievances? I am sure they do, many I do not agree with, but I can understand they have grievances. But that does not give them the right to blow up schools and offices in Lahore. Not only is it the wrong reaction, it is even against the wrong people. Were the school kids the ones manning FC posts in FATA?
Sharabi and Crescent tell us that the death of these people is understandable because of our operation in tribal areas. But surely you don't think the people who died today were in any way responsible and had to pay the price, do you?
And by the way, the terrorists have killed many more Pakistanis than the terrorists who were killed in the Lal Masjid operation. What Math do they teach in the Madarassahs if this is just revenge killing (and revenge against whom, by the wya?)
Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!
Well if they come back and post their responses, what's your problem. I am talking to them on a 'message board'. Why does your mailbox feel funny?
Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!
**Hey don't tell me that the Islam of FATA is superior to Islam being practiced Faisalabad, Multan, and Sahiwal. FATA should be able to have a country of their own and enjoy their own laws. **Obviously they don't like the 'non-Islamic' culture of Pakistan. They should be able to live the way they like. Surely you do want them to have that freedom, don't you?
Nobody here is telling you, thats the message suicide-bombers/Taliban/AlQaida is broadcasting. "Enforce Islam" is not restricted to FATA, any guess where Lal Masjid was? Yes, Islamabad, our capitol city!
Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!
Because i respect them just as i respect you. So when you wrongly point to them like you know what you're talking about and i happen to be around, i'll let you know what i'm talking about.
Fair enough?
Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!
They justify it.
Tribal people have grievances? I am sure they do, many I do not agree with, but I can understand they have grievances. But that does not give them the right to blow up schools and offices in Lahore. Not only is it the wrong reaction, it is even against the wrong people. Were the school kids the ones manning FC posts in FATA?
Sharabi and Crescent tell us that the death of these people is understandable because of our operation in tribal areas. But surely you don't think the people who died today were in any way responsible and had to pay the price, do you?
And by the way, the terrorists have killed many more Pakistanis than the terrorists who were killed in the Lal Masjid operation. What Math do they teach in the Madarassahs if this is just revenge killing (and revenge against whom, by the wya?)
I don't think any civilian is responsible or should die. Period.
They have always said it's the policy that's not working.
I'll leave it at that and let them come, since you called them "out".
Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!
I'll be happy to see a "condemnation" of these attacks from them. But let me predict, one of them will deny that the tribals did it since no one phone in to claim the responsibility. The other one will say "I TOLD YOU SO" that this would happen when Lal Masjid operation was held.
But back to the original topic. I am not just venting, but I really believe that FATA should be a country of its own. Our laws don't apply there, and htey have never been officially a part of our country. Why should expect protection offered by the very people they are attacking all the time. Let them be their own country, enforce ISLAM they way they want, defend their Taliban bretheren.
People who want to enforce Islam in Pakistan, are doing through peaceful preaching already. I dont think Islam is in any danger in Faisalabad and Sheikhupurah.
Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!
We're a little nation as we are dude, we cannot let FATA go. What it is now, it is going to become a million times worse because then they'll have no accountability what-so-ever. Not to mention, the civilians that live there will suffer the most because whatever ties they had with Pakistan will be cut altogether.
Yes i think it's a huge problem, yes it's painful, extremely painful. But that's why we cannot just hammer it out, but carry out a precise surgical tweaking of the policies in place to ensure the results bear some fruit. No one is saying pull the pak troops out altogether, wave 'em kisses and leave.
By all means, stay on the defensive, but at the same time have other avenues to get results. We've tried all-force and it hasn't worked so far. It's time to try something else.
All the previous agreements were broken because the Army was under Musharraf's direct order and he got his direct orders (to some extent) from Washington. We all know that. Then you have little issue of random drones dropping bombs and Pakistani officials taking blame for it, even when it meant suicide in itself because it clearly violated the agreement.
Now that there's a new setup, people's people in place (no pun intended). And Parliament is ready to take a different approach, we should be willing to give it a shot.
We gave the previous methods 8+ years and all we got was intensity in return. Army has its own commander now who is not politically motivated, and a democratic Govt., so we can expect good things.
Or hope atleast.
Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!
It's quite interesting, that many here believe Waziristan issue can be solved by providing them a piece of land for their owns.
Do you really believe all these sbs gonna stop then?!
This is not the Isreal-Palestine or Turkey-PKK issue.
They just made you to believe this to be one of these issues.
Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!
Well, there are two issues regarding Waziristan and suicide bombers. Issue one is war on terror (along with Afghanistan issue) and issue two is Shariah Law.
As for war on terror and Afghanistan issue, it is funny that some believe Pakistan joined this war and it is not Pakistani war. I think that these people who believe that is not Pakistani war are either lying knowingly (like Imran Khan and many other politicians) or are just misguided. If they are not then they should tell, how, when, and where Pakistan joined this war? They also say that this is not Pakistani war, than again they should tell why, with logical truth and not using their misguided statements full of lies?
As for Afghanistan issue, then we should understand that Afghanistan is not Pakistan, neither Taliban is Afghanistan. USA had problem with Taliban in Afghanistan. Taliban were fighting with Northern Alliance. USA started supporting NA resulting in Taliban having hell in Afghanistan and lost their government.
What was the role of Pakistan?
Pakistan did not join this war against Taliban government in Afghanistan but Pakistan also did not join Taliban to fight their war against NA supported by USA. If Pakistan had joined this war, Taliban would have pulled their Ambassador from Pakistan but actually Pakistan was the only country that had their Ambassador and kept recognising Taliban government in Afghanistan throughout war, until Kabul fell. Now recognising Taliban does not mean Pakistan should physically help Taliban fight NA whom USA started supporting after 9/11, in war with Taliban.
Further, Pakistan tried to negotiate with Taliban on behalf of USA but Taliban did not listened to what Pakistan told them. Nevertheless, against the wishes of USA, Pakistan also gave voice outlet to Taliban in Islamabad and from where Taliban ambassador (I think Mullah Zafeer) use to give Taliban's point of view to the world.
Apart of that, Pakistan gave some support in terms of logistic and facilities to USA. That was Pakistan's need, as USA is not only Pakistan's biggest trading partner but Pakistan gets most of their financial supports and military equipments from USA, plus situation was that USA needed such supports and Pakistan was not in a position to say 'NO'. Nevertheless, giving facilities and logistic support to USA does not mean that Pakistan joined the war against Afghanistan. Joining the war meant that Pakistan would have broken diplomatic relation with Afghanistan, as USA was pressurising Pakistan to do, and as Saudia and UAE did. Further, Pakistan would have allowed USA forces to enter Afghanistan from Pakistan (as Suadia did against Iraq), would have let USA use Pakistan air bases to bomb Afghanistan (as Saudia and other Arab countries did against Iraq), and being in neighbour with huge ground force, Pakistani forces would have entered Afghanistan and would have fought there on ground against Taliban.
After Taliban was routed and new government came to power in Afghanistan, Pakistan had to cooperate with new government in Afghanistan, because in theory, relationship of Pakistan with Afghanistan was not a relationship with Taliban but it was relationship with Afghanistan and that means any government in Afghanistan should be acceptable to Pakistan. So, once new government came to power in Afghanistan, for Pakistan they became legitimate government in Afghanistan and rightly so, as Afghanistan is a country with government and Taliban is a group.
Unfortunately, when new government (NA with USA) came in Afghanistan, Afghanistan ambassador (I think Mullah Zafeer) instead of going back to Afghanistan decided to hide in Pakistan. Afghanistan asked for their ambassador and it was duty of Pakistan to find him, arrest him, and hand him over to Afghanistan and that is what Pakistan did. After handing him over to Afghanistan, what happens to him was neither Pakistani concern nor Pakistani responsibility.
Problem is that most Pakistanis consider Afghanistan as Taliban and expected that Pakistan should have sided with Taliban in their war against NA supported by USA and since Pakistan did not, it means Pakistan has joined in war with USA against Taliban. That is a retarded thinking. Only a person who is lying or is misguided could say that.
Now regarding war against terror in Pakistan, again there is big misunderstanding (or intentional lies by vested interests like Imran, Hamid Gul, Nawaz, Qazi, and so on).
There are insurgents using Pakistani soil to attack government in Afghanistan. That is completely intolerable. Pakistan has to control Pakistani soil and have to make sure that it is not used for attacking another country. If Pakistan does not do that then it is Pakistani weakness and that could result in two things. Either other country attacks those areas to stop insurgents or attack Pakistan. Neither is good for Pakistan. So, for own good, Pakistan have to stop these insurgents so that neighbouring country and forces in neighbouring country do not attack Pakistan or seeing Pakistan incapable of doing anything, they themselves do not start doing military operation in Pakistani soil against these insurgents.
That means, unless Pakistan is willing to go to war against USA for these insurgents, Pakistan have to fight them who are in Waziristan and other areas, using these areas to enter Afghanistan and fight in Afghanistan.
[Kashmir is another issue, because Pakistan has claim on Kashmir, considers that Indian forces in Kashmir are occupying Kashmir, and because Pakistan has claim on Kashmir Pakistan is willing to go to war with India for Kashmir.
As for Afghanistan, Pakistan has no claim on Afghanistan, and further, Pakistan is not willing to go to war with American and NATO forces in Afghanistan. Actually, even if Pakistan was strong enough then also there is/was no need for Pakistan to go to war with USA and NATO forces so that Taliban rules Afghanistan. For Pakistan, Pakistan has no right to interfere with internal matters in Afghanistan and to decide who rules Afghanistan, plus that is not so important for Pakistan that Pakistan should go to war with USA and NATO forces for that].
Now if these people in Waziristan want to fight in Afghanistan, then they should leave Pakistan and become independent, so that they can do whatever they like. Else, they should leave Afghanistan alone and obey Pakistani laws. As long as Waziristan is part of Pakistan, they have no right to use Pakistani soil to fight war in other country Pakistan is not at war. So, if they cross Pakistani border to fight in Afghanistan, then it is Pakistani responsibility to stop them and that is Pakistani war and not war of someone else. If for that these people want to inflict Pakistan with their terrorism then again war against their terrorism is Pakistani war and not war of someone else.
These people are called terrorists in Afghanistan because anyone who fights gorilla war with state for political change/reasons are called terrorists and thus USA and Afghanistan call them terrorists (that is why there is phrase that one person terrorist is another person freedom fighter). Well, any gorup who kill innocent civilians and attack government buildings, shoot at government forces are also called terrorists, and thus these people are terrorists.
Pakistan also call them terrorists because they are terrorising Pakistani society, breaking Pakistani laws, fighting against Pakistani policy, and want to use Pakistani soil to fight their war in another country (war that is not sponsored by Pakistan). As for Pakistan, they are not freedom fighter for anyone but pure terrorists, and thus war on terror in Pakistan is Pakistani war in every respect.
Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!
It's quite interesting, that many here believe Waziristan issue can be solved by providing them a piece of land for their owns. Do you really believe all these sbs gonna stop then?! This is not the Isreal-Palestine or Turkey-PKK issue. They just made you to believe this to be one of these issues.
The difference between Turkey taking on the PKK and Pakistan taking on these animals is that in Turkey, most Turks were behind their government
while, in Pakistan, people like you, cresent and sharaabi are openly hostile to Pakistan's well being and believe the future lies with these animals
Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!
Aside from some futile posts here, I think if we were discussing this in the late 80,s the same people would ride on a different bandwagon and be praising something else by now. Its so easy to flip flop isn’t it?
Its easy to escapegoat a group of people, and ignore facts at hand.
I have never seen anyone on this forum justify killing of others, except for the supporters of Israel and US, who have justified massacres on a grand scale, only to come here and enlighten us on their views on Pakistani politics. 
Re: Wazirastan wants to be a state within the state, Give them Freedom!
Flip Flop my ass…
I never supported the Arabs coming to Afghanistan to fight the Soviets…
The only reason that Afghanistan and Taliban got so radical is due to the Arabs brainwashing them into becoming these jihadists and so the Arabs can have their breathing space to wage their wars against Jews and Israel
Something which you are a master at
Well I have never seen you condemn their actions
So I guess you support Pakistanis being blown up
Oh Wait, you want proof 