Was hz fatima(ra) correct when she demanded fadak as HER INTERITANCE?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Was hz fatima(ra) correct when she demanded fadak as HER INTERITANCE?

We find in several narrations that hz fatima(ra) demanded fadak as her INHERITANCE, and even many rafidi scholars accuse hz abubakar(ra) for not providing hz fatima(ra) her share in inheritance. So my question is very simple to the shias, **Was hz fatima(ra) correct when she demanded fadak as HER INTERITANCE?

p.s I wont be entertaining answers which are not related the question.
**

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Re: Was hz fatima(ra) correct when she demanded fadak as HER INTERITANCE?

of course she was right when she demanded her RIGHT, a stuborn one having Nasibi tendedies being ignorant of the merits of Ahlulobayt would have a doubt on it !!!

PS: It was not only Fatima Zahra (sa) but other members of Ahlulbayt had vouched for her stance.

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Re: Was hz fatima(ra) correct when she demanded fadak as HER INTERITANCE?

Peace wellwisher4u

Why are you entertaining questions where you are making people regard the Sahaba as right or wrong? Astaghfirullah please have some decency and respect such topics are doing us no favours.

You are prodding the Shi'a members here for no reason. Just because others here are Sunni it does not mean that we automatically take the opposite position of classifying the Sahaba. We love them and do not fault them in any way. If you believed that your mother did wrong wellwisher4u would you come on a public forum and talk about it? For sure that is a shameful thing. Hz Fatimah (AS) is in the position of your mother, probably higher still.

This again will be a run on thread like your previous one ... For sure you have better things to do than 'debate' - which is argumentation. Surely there are better ways to discuss. In the past the issue of fadak has already been addressed here, but it was brought up by Shi'a first we didn't bring it up.

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Re: Was hz fatima(ra) correct when she demanded fadak as HER INTERITANCE?

Al-Kulayni narrates in al-Kafi: Abu ‘Abdillah (Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq) says that Rasulullah sallallahu ‘alayhi wa-alihi wasallam *said: “... And the ‘Ulama are the heirs of the Ambiya; and the Ambiya did not leave dinars and dirhams as inheritance; but they left knowledge. Therefore whosoever takes knowledge has taken a great portion.” (*al-Kafi, vol. 1 p. 42)

Regarding the authenticity of this hadith, ‘Allamah Muhammad Baqir Majlisi states in his commentary on al-Kafi, entitled Mir’at al-‘Uqul:[This] hadith has two chains of narration. The first is majhul [contains an unknown narrator], and the second is hasan or muwaththaq. [Together] they do not fall short of being sahih. (Mir’at al-‘Uqul, vol. 1 p. 111)

Ali ibn Ibrahim narrates from his father, from Hammad ibn ‘Isa, on the authority of ‘Abdullah ibn Maymun] al-Qaddah that Abu ‘Abdillah [Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq] ‘alayhis salam said: Rasulullah sallallahu ‘alayhi wa-alihi wasallam said: “Whoever walks a path seeking therein knowledge, Allah will lead him on a road to Jannah... And the ‘Ulama are the heirs of the Ambiya; and the Ambiya did not leave dinars and dirhams as inheritance; but they left knowledge. Therefore whosoever takes knowledge has taken a great portion.” (*al-Kafi, *Kitab Fadl al-‘Ilm, Bab Sifat al-‘Ilm wa-Fadlihi, hadith no. 2)
To this narration Khomeini appends the following remark:

The narrators of this tradition are all reliable and trustworthy. The father of ‘Ali ibn Ibrahim [namely Ibrahim ibn Hashim] is not only reliable; he is one of the most reliable and trustworthy narrators. (al-Hukumat al-Islamiyyah, p. 133, published by Markaz Baqiyyat Allah al-A‘zam, Beirut

AND WHO ARE THE SCHOLARS(ulama)?
**
Saduq in "al-Khisal":
[INDENT]3-115 حدثنا محمد بن الحسن رضي الله عنه قال: حدثنا محمد بن الحسن الصفار عن أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى، عن الحسن بن علي الوشاء.عن أحمد بن عائذ، عن أبي خديجة عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال:الناس يغدون على ثلاثة عالم ومتعلم وغثاء، فنحن العلماء وشيعتنا المتعلمون وسائر الناس غثاء.
3-115 Muhammad ibn al-Hassan - may God be pleased with him - narrated that Muhammad ibn al-Hassan al-Saffar quoted on the authority of Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Isa, on the authority of Al-Hassan ibn Ali al-Vasha, on the authority of Ahmad ibn A’ez, on the authority of Abi Khadijeh that Aba Abdullah as-Sadiq (MGB) said, “The people can be divided into three groups: the knowledgeable scholars, the seekers of knowledge and the scum. **We are the knowledgeable scholars. Our followers are the seekers of knowledge and the rest of the people are the scum.”[/INDENT]It was also narrated in "Basair darajat" p 25 via 4 chains:[INDENT]حدثنا إبراهيم بن هاشم عن يحيى بن أبي عمران عن يونس عن جميل قال سمعت أبا عبد الله ع يقول يغدوا الناس على ثلاثة صنوف عالم ومتعلم وغثاء فنحن العلماء وشيعتنا المتعلمون وسائر الناس غثاء
حدثني الحسن بن علي عن العباس بن عامر عن سيف بن عميرة عن عمرو بن شمر عن جابر عن أبي عبد الله ع قال إن الناس رجلان عالم ومتعلم وساير الناس غثاء فنحن العلماء وشيعتنا المتعلمون وسائر الناس غثاء
حدثنا محمد بن الحسين بن عبد الرحمن بن أبي هاشم عن سالم عن أبي عبد الله ع قال الناس يغدون على ثلاثة عالم ومتعلم وغثاء فنحن العلماء وشيعتنا المتعلمون وسائر الناس غثاء
حدثني محمد بن عبد الحميد عن سيف بن عميره قال حدثني أبو سلمة قال سمعت أبا عبد الله ع يقول يغدوا الناس على ثلاثة عالم ومتعلم وغثاء فسئلوه عن ذلك فقال نحن العلماء وشيعتنا المتعلمون وسائر الناس غثاء
حدثنا أحمد بن محمد عن الحسن بن علي الوشا عن أحمد بن عايذ عن أبي خديجة عن أبي عبد الله ع قال إن الناس يغدون على ثلاثة عالم ومتعلم وغثاء فنحن العلماء وشيعتنا المتعلمون وسائر الناس غثاء

AND ONE THING IS TO UNDERSTAND THAT ACC TO SHIAS, SCHOLARS(ULAMA) DO NOT INHERIT FROM PROPHETS AS WE FOUND FROM THEIR AUTHENTIC AHADEES,.

AND WE KNOW THAT IN GENERAL THERE ARE 3 TYPES OF PEOPLE ULAMA(WHO HAS COMPLETE KNOWLEDGE) AND SEEKERS OF ILM AND JAHILS.

SO I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THAT IN WHICH CATEGORY THE SHIAS CONSIDER AHLEBAYT TO BE?

AND IF THEY SAY HZ FATIMA(RA) COMES IN THE CATEGORY OF ULAMA(WHO HAS COMPLETE KNOWLEGDE) THEN THE HADEES APPLIES TO HER THAT PROPHET(SAW) DIDNT LEAVE INHERITANCE FOR HER EXCEPT KNOWLEDGE. AND BELIEVE ME THEY WILL NOT DARE TO CHOOSE THE REMAINING 2 CATEGORIES.[/INDENT]

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Re: Was hz fatima(ra) correct when she demanded fadak as HER INTERITANCE?

Jazzak Allah for your very sensible reply Psyah , I could not agree more. :k:

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Re: Was hz fatima(ra) correct when she demanded fadak as HER INTERITANCE?

What ?? How on earth did you reach to this conlclusion based on the above cited traditions? What does these traditions have to do with the inheritance of prophets by their biological/actual heirs? Wherever the Shia text mentions the inheritance of prophets, it does from two perspectives:

  1. the spritual inheritors of prophets, are their successors and the learned scholars since they inherit the knowledge of prophets,

  2. material posessions that are inherited by the biological progeny/heirs of Prophets.

The traditions relied on are talking about the first aspect only and thus it provided an an opening for the Nawasib to to commit dishonesty and present them as an orthodox belief of the Shia. Pertaining to the traditions cited by you:

-Ulema are not the actual son of Porphets
- Prophets are not their actual fathers
- Knowledge is not an actual possession that can be distributed.

As for the second category, i.e. Hadiths talking about the inheritance of actual/biological heirs pf prophets, we read in various Shia Hadith books:

Zurara narrated that Abi Jaffar (as) said: ‘Ali inherited the knowledge of Allah's messenger and Fatima inherited his property.’
1. Al-Kafi, Volume 7 page 86
2. Basair al-Darajat, page 314
3. Tahdib al-Ahkam, Volume 9 page 277
4. Min la Yahdrahu al-Faqih, Volume 4 page 261
5. Manaqib al Abi Talib, Volume 2 page 26
6. Allamah Majlisi declared it Hasan in Mirat al-Uqool, Volume 23 page 32

[QUOTE]
AND WE KNOW THAT IN GENERAL THERE ARE 3 TYPES OF PEOPLE ULAMA(WHO HAS COMPLETE KNOWLEDGE) AND SEEKERS OF ILM AND JAHILS.

SO I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THAT IN WHICH CATEGORY THE SHIAS CONSIDER AHLEBAYT TO BE?

AND IF THEY SAY HZ FATIMA(RA) COMES IN THE CATEGORY OF ULAMA(WHO HAS COMPLETE KNOWLEGDE) THEN THE HADEES APPLIES TO HER THAT PROPHET(SAW) DIDNT LEAVE INHERITANCE FOR HER EXCEPT KNOWLEDGE. AND BELIEVE ME THEY WILL NOT DARE TO CHOOSE THE REMAINING 2 CATEGORIES.[/INDENT][/INDENT]
[/QUOTE]

In the light of what I mentioned above, what does this have to do with the case of Fatima Zahra (sa) who was asking her share "as a biological heir of prophet" ???

Following the absurd interpreation just made by you of the above cited Shia traditons, do we interpret that since Ulema are (biologcial ?) )the heirs of the prophets, hence Ulama are prohibited from inheriting material posessions from their own respective biological fathers??? lol

Moreover there are plethora of evidence of Holy Quran and in Sunni text that proves that prophet's biological heris do inherit the material posessions of their father-prophets, so your interpretation fall flat on from all aspects!!!!

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Re: Was hz fatima(ra) correct when she demanded fadak as HER INTERITANCE?


it has to, because the narration states that for scholars there is no material inheritance, And then i cited a narration from shia book where shia imam said that the AHlebayt are the scholars.. So one narration states that no material inheritance for scholars, other narration states that Ahlebayt are scholars...

[quote]

Wherever the Shia text mentions the inheritance of prophets, it does from two perspectives:

  1. the spritual inheritors of prophets, are their successors and the learned scholars since they inherit the knowledge of prophets,

  2. material posessions that are inherited by the biological progeny/heirs of Prophets.

The traditions relied on are talking about the first aspect only and thus it provided an an opening for the Nawasib to to commit dishonesty and present them as an orthodox belief of the Shia. Pertaining to the traditions cited by you:

-Ulema are not the actual son of Porphets
- Prophets are not their actual fathers
- Knowledge is not an actual possession that can be distributed.
[/quote]
what all you copy pasted from deceiving ansar.org is pure stupidity and the writers of those arctiles themselves are absconding since we provided them the refutations to their stupidities...

Firstly THE SHIA IMAM STATES THAT AHLEBAYT ARE THE ULAMA.. read the hadees with open eyes, i didnt make that by myself, its the shia imam who is declaring that ULAMA ARE THE AHLEBAYT.. SO substitute that in the hadees which states that there is no materialistic inheritance for ulama(ahlebayt acc to hadees).

My question is simple: Prophet(Saw) said there is no inheritance for ULAMA now my is hz fatima(ra) part of ulama or not.. (and also plz keep in mind the hadees where shia imam taught you that who are ulama)

[quote]
As for the second category, i.e. Hadiths talking about the inheritance of actual/biological heirs pf prophets, we read in various Shia Hadith books:

Zurara narrated that Abi Jaffar (as) said: ‘Ali inherited the knowledge of Allah's messenger and Fatima inherited his property.’
1. Al-Kafi, Volume 7 page 86
2. Basair al-Darajat, page 314
3. Tahdib al-Ahkam, Volume 9 page 277
4. Min la Yahdrahu al-Faqih, Volume 4 page 261
5. Manaqib al Abi Talib, Volume 2 page 26
6. Allamah Majlisi declared it Hasan in Mirat al-Uqool, Volume 23 page 32

[/quote]
well either you should say that this narration is weak.. or say that fatima(ra) doesnt come under the category of ulama(those who posses complete knowledge)

[QUOTE]
1. the spritual inheritors of prophets, are their successors and the learned scholars since they inherit the knowledge of prophets,

  1. material posessions that are inherited by the biological progeny/heirs of Prophets.

[/QUOTE]
Just see the stupidity of the oxymoron...

Because we know that many prophets biological sons became their spiritual inheritors.. So how on earth did they receive the material inheritance at the same time, that only means that they didnt receive any materialistic inheritance, since prophet(Saw) declared that there is no materialistic inheritance for the ulama. He said : Ambiya did not leave dinars and dirhams as inheritance. He rejected the idea that there can be inheritance for ulama..

So the only option left for you is that fatima(ra) is not from the category of ulama(those who have complete knowledge) or say that she was not eligible for materlialistic inheritance...

[quote]
In the light of what I mentioned above, what does this have to do with the case of Fatima Zahra (sa) who was asking her share "as a biological heir of prophet" ???
[/quote]
prophet(Saw) didnt mention anything about biological or spiritual relations.. he just said that ULAMA are not entitled to receive materialistic inheritance.. So my question is very clear do you consider hz fatima(ra) from ulama yes or no.?

[quote]
Following the absurd interpreation just made by you of the above cited Shia traditons, do we interpret that since Ulema are (biologcial ?) )the heirs of the prophets, hence Ulama are prohibited from inheriting material posessions from their own respective biological fathers??? lol
[/quote]
lol, ..firstly what did the shia imam say teach you regarding who ulama are? Why are you so afraid to read the teaching of your own imam...

فنحن العلماء وشيعتنا المتعلمون

He said: We(ahlebayt) are the ulama. Our shia(followers) are the seekers of knowledge.

Now your imam doesnt counts non ahlebayt under the category of ulama... he calls them our shia... And i guess all your greatest scholars were infact shia(followers).. So before making those idiotic arguments read your own ahadees and what your imams taught you.

[quote]

Moreover there are plethora of evidence of Holy Quran and in Sunni text that proves that prophet's biological heris do inherit the material posessions of their father-prophets, so your interpretation fall flat on from all aspects!!!!
[/QUOTE]
lol , indeed this is the most funniest part, at one place you say that prophet's heirs inherited material possessions and at the same time they were the inheritors of knowledge of their father and they were the ulama of their time..now the narration says that there is no material inheritance for the ulama..lol.. just check out how much contradictions are present in your beliefs..

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Re: Was hz fatima(ra) correct when she demanded fadak as HER INTERITANCE?

Allahu Akbar. This is worse than deeming Yazid to be innocent. This disgusting thread should be closed asap.

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Re: Was hz fatima(ra) correct when she demanded fadak as HER INTERITANCE?

Questioning an act of Hazrat Fatima (RA) in such a manner only to prove to shias that she was wrong (maaz Allah) [Hence shias are wrong]?
This is absolutely despicable.

As a Sunni, I must say, I am purely disgusted.

I agree with Jafri. Thread needs to be closed. In fact it needs to be deleted, if there is any shame left in us.

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Re: Was hz fatima(ra) correct when she demanded fadak as HER INTERITANCE?

Dont get surprised dear, there have been Nawasib like Ibn Tamiyah, Ibn Kathir etc websites like that of Ibn al-Hashimi who have implied that Fatima Zahra (sa) was greedy (nauzobillah) and hence she got angry from the person who did not allow her to take her share/right. so no need to surpise really if you find people like OP

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Re: Was hz fatima(ra) correct when she demanded fadak as HER INTERITANCE?

Thread Closed!