War Protests

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Imdad, There is not just one, there are dozens of them.

AhmadJee,

No manifestly i do not believe that Saddam Hussein won "100%" of the vote; that's ridiculous, of course not. That doesn't mean that one should believe the people of a country should not possess the right to determine their own fate. If we go for regime change in Iraq, then why not in the UAE where there has never ever been the whiff of an election, let alone permitting women to vote or to run as political candidates? If regime change in Iraq, then why not in Saudi where nonMuslim minority groups are repressed? Either we make up our minds that particular regions of the world take it upon themselves to take away the right of civilians to choose their own government, or, we leave the Iraqi people alone. It's either/or. IMHO we have to cease this paternalistic attitude towards the people of Iraq, they are adults equipped with their own free will. Besides which, they have no reason to believe that the govt. we install will be any better than Hussein's - considering which political external entities used to support Hussein's Baathist regime in the past.

>>It's mostly either the Anti-American, pro-Saddam, Anti-Western & Anti-Oil-Hungry-Republicans sentiment is what's driving the Anti-War movement!<<
i am not entirely certain how you arrived at the above statement. Do you consider me anti-American and pro-Saddam? Was there a survey undertaken of the dozens of anti-war orgs. in the US and Canada? There were at least 100,000 demonstrators in San Francisco over the weekend, including veterans from both world wars and non Muslims. In your opinion, are they ALL anti-American? i really am feeling a bit hurt - do you think as someone who is opposed to any war against Iraq, i am being naive or that i haven't considered this issue out carefully...or, even, that i have some twisted form of respect for Saddam Hussein. i assure you i do not, AhmadJee. i was living in the UAE when Hussein first ordered the invasion of Kuwait. My father is still living there, and the thought of what might happen if there is a war, is with my family every day. i have gone through the whole buying gas masks thing in 1991; with the utmost respect to yourself i do not believe i am being naive when i approach this issue.

Your argument regarding where were these demonstrators during the Iran-Iraq war, is a very valid one. i might also query those who oppose Hussein's regime today, especially those in the US administration who are so hawkish today about engaging in a war with Iraq, as to why they were shaking the Butcher of Baghdad's hands during the 1980s ? When they were aware of his use of CW ? Surely that sets a precedent for not placing too much faith in any external entity to truly want what's "good" for the people of Iraq.

>>Here is a suggestion, why not come on the streets & voice the opinion of "Down with Saddam".<<
AhmadJee, i believe this is at the crux of our discussion. Why should i bother with a dictator such as Saddam Hussein when people are dying in that country, every day, due to a factor not even related to him? i believe that the trade embargo, and not Hussein, has been far more responsible in claiming innocent civilian lives. If you want me to, i will be happy to post some references, including one even from the UN Security Council itself. What was Hussein's worst atrocity ? The gassing of 5000 Kurds in Halabja. What has the trade embargo accomplished? The deaths of at least 500,000 children under the age of five, and that was counting only until 1998 (i.e., ~ five years ago). The toll is higher today.

Why should sanctions be lifted only when Hussein has been ousted ? Why should a civilian population have to pay for the crimes of a dictator whom they never even elected in the first place ?

>>At times these new kind of hippies seem to have as many double standards as the people they are protesting aganist.<<
We have at least one aspect in common - i too am disheartened with this entire issue, AhmadJee.

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I have heard several audio clips of protestors who seem to share the opinion that, if only the sanctions were lifted, the great Iraqi middle class could exercise their right of self determination and install the government of their choice.

The arguments I've heard are similar to those expressed by Nadia.

Frankly, I think that anyone who wants the Iraqi people to have a meaningful right of self-determination should be pro-official US policy and be in favor of the quick removal of Saddam and his cronies from power by military force. I get the feeling that these anti-war folks simply do not understand that the Iraqi people lost any and all right of self-determination when Saddam came to power.

Many who are also "anti-war" are "anti-sanctions." As suggested above by AhmadJee, none of these people have any program or ideas to offer about what to do about Saddam if they got the sanctions lifted. I guess they don't realize that once Saddam is gone, sanctions will be lifted. Two birds with one stone so to speak: an end to sanctions AND a real right of self-determination.

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‘With opinion polls showing overwhelming opposition to war across the continent, Nineham says politicians have “lost touch” with the voters they are supposed to represent’

Europe braced for huge anti-war protest](Europe braced for huge anti-war protests - UPI.com) United Press

BRUSSELS, Belgium, Feb. 14 (UPI) – Millions of Europeans are expected to take to the streets Saturday to protest the looming war in Iraq, in what is being billed as the continent’s largest ever day of demonstrations. United for Peace and Justice, a U.S.-based campaign group, estimates that 603 anti-war protests have been organized across the globe, with over 200 taking place in European cities.

Around 150,000 dissenters kicked off a weekend of worldwide protests in Melbourne, Australia Friday in the country’s greatest anti-war rally since the Vietnam conflict 30 years ago. Marchers brandished placards proclaiming: “No Blood for Oil” and “Uncle Sam is a terrorist.” The largest demonstrations in Europe are forecast in Britain, Spain and Italy, where the ruling governments support the American military build-up in the Gulf.

London is bracing itself for the biggest march in British history, with over half a million people expected to converge on Hyde Park for a star-studded rally. U.S. civil rights leader Jesse Jackson, playwright Harold Pinter and human rights campaigner Bianca Jagger are due to address the crowds. “Iraq is a challenge that must be put into perspective,” Jackson told the British Broadcasting Corp. “It is not a priority that Bush and Blair have made it to be.”

Chris Nineham from the London-based Stop the War Coalition told United Press International: “What (U.S. President George W.) Bush and (British Prime Minister Tony) Blair are attempting to do is so unjustified that people’s anger is understandable.” In Spain, where over 90 per cent of the population is opposed to a unilateral strike against Baghdad by the United States and its allies, all the major opposition parties and trade unions have joined forces to protest in over 50 cities.

The largest demonstration is likely to take place in Barcelona, where up to half a million marchers are expected to voice their opposition to Prime Minister Jose-Maria Aznar’s hard-line stance. Italy is also likely to witness massive protests, with hundreds of thousands of peace campaigners likely to hit the streets of the capital Rome Saturday.

In France, Germany and Belgium, where ruling parties have called for more time for United Nations weapons inspectors and blocked NATO plans to protect Turkey in the case of a war with Iraq, the anti-war demonstrations are likely to be smaller and more muted. However, 50,000 protesters are due to march through Paris Saturday, with rallies anticipated in 50 other French cities.

With opinion polls showing overwhelming opposition to war across the continent, Nineham says politicians have “lost touch” with the voters they are supposed to represent. “Blair and Bush are driven by different priorities than most people live their lives by. They have used the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States as a smokescreen to push for profits in parts of the world they see as rewarding for them.”

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by myvoice: *
I have heard several audio clips of protestors who seem to share the opinion that, if only the sanctions were lifted, the great Iraqi middle class could exercise their right of self determination and install the government of their choice.

[/quote]

What can be done is to lift sanctions and have UN monitor their financial progress keeping a close eyes on their disarmament process. Bombing the hell out of Baghdad removes Saddam AND the people we are supposed to 'liberate'.

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''We do not agree that the government of a country, not suitable to big countries, be changed by military means through a pre-emptive strike."

Mahathir urges non-aligned to take anti-war stand](http://www.deepikaglobal.com/ENG4_sub.asp?ccode=ENG4&newscode=27369) Deepiks Global News

KUALA LUMPUR, Feb 17 (Reuters) The Non-Aligned Movement’s (NAM) summit in Kuala Lumpur next week should urge the United States and Britain to step back from a threatened attack on Iraq, Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad said today.

Mahathir, who takes over the chair of the 114-nation grouping of developing countries at the meeting, has already said he would refuse to back a war on Iraq even if the United Nations gives Washington a mandate to attack. He said NAM should add its collective voice to those of ordinary people who demonstrated their opposition to war in protests around the world last weekend.

‘‘We have no military or financial strength, but we can join the world movement to oppose war on moral grounds,’’ Mahathir, who is seen as a strong moderate Muslim leader, said on state-run Radio Televisyen Malaysia.‘‘We do not agree that the government of a country, not suitable to big countries, be changed by military means through a pre-emptive strike. If this thing is allowed to happen, maybe other countries will also suffer the same fate in the future,’’ he said.

Senior officials from NAM begin talks on Thursday, and foreign ministers will meet on Saturday, while the leaders summit is scheduled to take place on February 24 and 25.Mahathir is also seeking to arrange an informal meeting of leaders from the Organisation of the Islamic Conference on the sidelines of the NAM summit to discuss the West Asian crisis.