Saw it on the news just yesterday. I believe it was in Gaza that most of the prominent leaders of the Palestinian people these days, Hammas & Islamic Jihad, took to the streets with their people to protest against the war. Though I understand totally why they or anyone else for that matter be upset about the war with Iraq, I can’t comprehend why they would wave Saddams picture & be all hyper in voicing their support to him. Do they not consider him a brutal ruler or is it the case that whoever is against the US we will embrace him, no matter what his own reputation maybe?!
Similarly, I have seen the same attitude of many who are against this war. In their speeches or articles, they don’t mention Saddam, what are their views on him or any mention of an alternative plan they consider valid against him to help the Iraqi people. They do however go on and on about how they do not want war & consider peace the solution!
Going by the logic shown by pro-war supporters such as yourself ahmadjee, we should all support the killing of another 200,000 Iraqis (See UN reports on casualties) just because we are against Sadam …
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*Originally posted by ahmadjee: *
Do they not consider him a brutal ruler or is it the case that whoever is against the US we will embrace him, no matter what his own reputation maybe?!!
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Dear AhmadJee,
No the case is that they don't perceive of Iraq as comprised of one sole individual called Saddam Hussein, just as the US is not perceived of one sole 'George Bush'. Iraq isn't 22 million Saddam Hussein's. Everytime we talk about "Iraq", we are talking about 22 million individual human beings, who have the same dreams and ambitions, fears and tears, same loves and disappointments, etc. In your last paragraph, the people whom you mention are those who care neither for Hussein NOR Bush, but see the civilians of Iraq in a similar innocent manner as the civilians of any other country, be it the US or Malawi. These Iraqis are the ones trapped between a rock and a hard place - the dictatorial policies of their own country on the one hand, and the ever-shifting policies of other external administrations.
Imdad, if your argument was accurate then i would not know Catholics, Jews, Protestants, and Quakers who are all opposed to this illegal war against Iraq. The majority of them are Caucasians and a fair number reside in the US. A small number of them served in the 1991 'Gulf War'. Hatred? More likely it is awareness.
I was having a conversation with several pro-war Egyptian collegues last week who seemed to think that "taking Saddam out" would cure all ills and revive the ailing Middle east economy.The level of naivity in the discussion left me speechless, I didn't have a paper of pencil handy to draw pictures in reply.
'Show-boating' ignorance in threads such as these is one reason I generally stay away from the WA forum.
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*Originally posted by Thap: *
I was having a conversation with several pro-war Egyptian collegues last week who seemed to think that "taking Saddam out" would cure all ills and revive the ailing Middle east economy.The level of naivity in the discussion left me speechless, I didn't have a paper of pencil handy to draw pictures in reply.
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Sadly what you state is true Thap:~( i just can't stay quiet about it. We said 'never again' for the Holocaust, and yet seem hell bent on repeating the same mistakes.
Imdad, your views are falling on deaf ears. You want to know who goes to these marches.
Unemployed and unproductive college students with one semester of 20 century history, Hippies, Mothers against drunk driving, PETA, Green peace, Save the chillun, Pro-Life, Pro-Choice, Anti-globalization freaks, anti-defamation freaks, black israelites, tibetans protesting against chinese, Vnezuelans against Chavez, if fact anyone with anything to do with anything is looking to get their voice heard. There is no collective voice or conciousness as these people might want to suggest.
Frank Rich wrote a piece on these marches a few months ago in the NYTimes highlighting the scam this usually is. Buses are chartered, ganja is rolled, hotdogs are cooked, Grateful Dead shirts are sold, JOhn Popper does a medley of Noam Chomsky poems. It's a SCAM.
DHP: I haven;t seen many buses leave my neighborhood packed for DC yet. Let me know, when that happens. Until then...what you have is a disgruntled minority who would protest against the merits of fortune cookies.
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*Originally posted by Chaltahai: *
Unemployed and unproductive college students with one semester of 20 century history, Hippies, Mothers against drunk driving, PETA, Green peace, Save the chillun, Pro-Life, Pro-Choice, Anti-globalization freaks, anti-defamation freaks, black israelites, tibetans protesting against chinese, Vnezuelans against Chavez,
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Add to that former United Nations officials, those who worked right under Kofi Annan. oh, and also Nobel Peace Prize Nominees. Then again, please continue with the comments above - i wouldn't dream of letting inconvenient facts come in the way of easily-digested propaganda.
Subtract from that most Americans and that will show you how important this "propaganda" is. All these people need to get a job, start paying taxes and start playing by the rules that everyone plays with. Iraq lost the prequel, didn;t comply with the terms of surrender and failed yet again to declare it;s WMD capabilities, per UTD's post yesterday. Enough is enough...let the games begin...I am sure the children of Tel Aviv will feel a lot bettr once that despot is gone as well as the children of NY. My neighbors are still here. This is the ground reality....time to get Saddam out.
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*Originally posted by Chaltahai: *
Subtract from that most Americans and that will show you how important this "propaganda" is. All these people need to get a job, start paying taxes and start playing by the rules that everyone plays with. Iraq lost the prequel, didn;t comply with the terms of surrender and failed yet again to declare it;s WMD capabilities, per UTD's post yesterday. Enough is enough...let the games begin...I am sure the children of Tel Aviv will feel a lot bettr once that despot is gone as well as the children of NY. My neighbors are still here. This is the ground reality....time to get Saddam out.
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What the hell was that??? Let the games begin, yeah bring them on, Iraq has been through much worst and it is still alive and kicking, and I don't care about Saddam but he is not going anywhere, Bush Jr will leave and Saddam will still be here.
Just a year ago the US wanted bin laden, did they get him??? and now since they could'nt get him there back on Saddam's case, thats funny, he is not going anywhere for a very very very long time, and IRAQ WILL STILL BE AROUND, ALIVE AND KICKING!
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*Originally posted by Chaltahai: *
DHP: I haven;t seen many buses leave my neighborhood packed for DC yet. Let me know, when that happens. Until then...what you have is a disgruntled minority who would protest against the merits of fortune cookies.
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CH, Millions of ordinary citizens across the world are marching against Mr.Bush's plans.. many thousands of americans have marched across America stating their stiff opposition to War and many thousands have converged on Washington DC. The fact is Middle America strongly opposes Mr.Bushs doctrine which advocates a unilateral preemptive strike against Iraq.
Firstly, I am not in favour of a war with Iraq. Since, I think it’s for the wrong reasons.
However, with that said, it is pretty clear that the anti-war propagandists are so full of themselves, that it’s not even funny anymore.
Yes, liberals, hippies, and Muslims will show up at these protests. End result will be the same. Bush will go to war.
During the Vietnam war, the anti-war movement was far greater, with rioting, and killings, yet the war dragged on for so long. Right now the anti-war movement is so small that it’s not even worth worrying about for Bush. This time, America was attacked, true, it was not Iraq that attacked America, but Americans today have very little sympathy towards Muslim causes.
And the more Muslims start protesting and crying about Iraq, the more Americans would want to invade Iraq. You people are only digging your own grave. You could have done so much better by demonstrating against Saddam and calling for his ouster. It would have even stopped an Iraq invasion if removing Saddam could have been done with the help of local Muslims.
But, now as expected, American Muslims have let go of another opportunity and now their anti-war rhetoric sounds hollow and fake. No one in middle America will be paying attention to these protests. It will sadly (and wrongly) further reinforce the image of Muslims as anti-American in the minds of many in this country.
Just watch and wait for what happens in the coming months. It will be interesting if not sad.
For the millionth time on any given thread, let me add that US is the big instigator and bully in almost everything that goes on in the world, good or bad. In this particular case, since the 1991 Gulf War was largely unsuccessful for the Americans, now they’re just trying to pick war and use “weapons of mass destruction” as a convenient excuse to go in and bomb the hell out of this wonderfully historic muslim land. I hope the US gets its ass kicked again, as it rightfully deserves.
Saddam needs to be hung in public for his inhumane treatment of the lesser-priveleged, whether they are war prisoners or whoever. He needs to be tried in a War Crimes Tribunal and hung under the watchful eyes of the Iraqi people. I have no sympathy for this loser.
I am pleased (or surprised) to be shoved among those who are for war, any other judgment's on my behalf will also be welcomed.
Anyway, I am still confused why if Saddam is not the whole of Iraq, his pictures were carried out in Gaza & people shouted his praise? During the first "Desert Storm" the war protesters in Pakistan, whom I watched rallying students out of my college, had Saddam's posters on the prayer mat with the caption, "O Lord, let me be the one to free Jerusalem from the Jews" another one painted him with a Qur'an in one hand & the gun in another. I wish I had bought the t-shirt they were selling for 25 Rupees with his picture (or his look alike's).
Still, the question is not who is going to the protest and who is not, but what are their views on Saddam, and how do they want to get the Iraqi people out of the Hard place (US's war on Iraq being the Rock)?
Usually my above question is followed by the answer how US had double standards with Iraq, how they supported him when they needed him and how they are now after him for the oil and not the Iraqi people. Please save your breath, and let me assure you that I agree with all of the above.
What I want to know is what do the War Protesters have in mind to do about Iraq? Say US & it's "friends" put a hold on war, then what? I asked the same question to one such speaker at my campus, other than lifting the sanctions as solutions he had no other answer. Another of my fav. professor wanted US to change it's foreign policy and while I calculated the resources & time needed to do that vs. the life time of a human being (including Saddam) he also went on to tell me his utopian views of NWO.
Please tell me what have the people aganist the war with Iraq done to protest against Saddam. Did they rally anywhere when he gassed the Kurds or invaded Kuwait or burned the oil spills creating a environmental disaster? Where was the peace march, the colorful posters, the love of Kuwaiti people & beautiful sea birds hidden?
