Whatever happened to those toe-crunching inswinging yorkers ?
buDhay ho gaye hain bay charay (They are getting old)
bhai.. i like waqar. now he is no longer in his old self. but that is OK. in fact, when people compare likes of shoaib akhtar with legend like waqar, i get annoyed. it is like comparing hrithik roshan with amitabh bachchan. long, consistent spectacular carreers have to be respected though they may not last forever.
Age has taken its toll
ZZ,
I don't think Waqar had a very "consistent" career though it sure was spectacular for quite some time.He burst into the international scene promising great potential much like Shoaib Akhtar and infact just like him his career too was often plagued with injuries.
However you can associate the phrase*"long,consistent and spectacular"* with Wasim Akram.He has always delivered for Pakistan even while being in the news for all the wrong reasons.
It is also interesting to note that Waqar Younis and Sachin Tendulkar made their Test debut in the same test match at Karachi, 1989.
Ehsan and Khan_sahib,
Could you please explain how being 29 years of age can inhibit Waqar's ability to bowl inswinging yorkers ?
Azharuddin , even at 37 was the most agile fielder in the Indian team with extremely sharp reflexes.
Chilli,
fast bowlers only have a short lifespan due to the physical nature of their job. Shoaib has already had a long spell out because of injury. Wasim Akram is different in that he has a mainly arm action so less stress on his back.
[quote]
Originally posted by khan_sahib:
**buDhay ho gaye hain bay charay (They are getting old)
**
[/quote]
woh to hoene hi na, ab they can stay the same as the were 8-10 yrs ago, but i guess they could have stayed consistent as they were the regular bowlers on english condition, as thy played for both National side n as well the county, so they could have done bettre n also guided the other quikies but afsos woh nahin hua
khair let see what happens in up comin test
Be it bad or good, everything has to come to an end some day. This has been established by nature and no one, however big star it may be, could find a loophole in this law. He is a fast bowler and he must be 100% fit if he has to come good. Reasons other than injuries took their toll and he is no more a power to be afraid of.
Like Mr. Xtreeme said, most fast bowlers can't last forever. If I remember correctly when Waqar made his debut, he was known as the fastest bowler in international cricket.
And now bowlers like Shoaib Akhtar and Brett Lee won't last forever.
Bowlers like Abdur Razzaq, Azhar Mahmood, Glenn Mcgrath and M.Sami will stay on the team for a long time because they are not fast bowlers.
Very few bowlers have changed their bowling styles since they started playing. And Waqar Younis is one of them.
Thank you, come again
waqar has a strike rate higher than wasim and mcgrath. he takes wicket every 44 balls, while mcgrath every 52 balls and wasim every 56 balls. the average is same indicating that he gives almost equal runs in 44 balls as wasim does in 56 balls. but taking wicket matters. if you go by statistics, waqar's contribution of 321 wickets in 72 games is as good as wasim's 411 wickets in 101 games.
ZZ is so correct ..
Waqar had a very consistent career until recently .. his injuries and long layoffs have a negative effect on his pace .. but how can he lose his swingablity? The only explanation is they (applied to all Pak players) don’t work hard they just rely on their god given ability too much .. there are so many aged athlete 35+ in every sports .. the only way they keep going is physical fitness and skill .. you lose speed but gain skill .. there is big selection dilemma for 2nd test .. who should sit out ? … if you go by performance Ws should be making way for Samie and Saqi but that’s not gonna happen …
Hey one more thing
These things are hard to explain
For some it seems strange... to swallow
The frontier of our minds
Is the last place we find
But maybe the first place we should go
ZZ,
I don't know how you define a long "consistent" career. For me it is the ability to perform continually over a long period of time. Just Strike Rate has got nothing to do with it, if you understand what I mean.
Now let's see what the statistics say :
**
Waqar Younis :**
Test Matches Played : 72
Wickets taken :321
Average :23.13
One Days :209
Wickets :331
Average :23.95
**
Wasim Akram :**
Test Matches Played: 101
Wickets Taken :411
Average :23.30
One Days:316
Wickets :440
Average :23.81
See for yourself. Akram has played 29 more test matches and 107 more One Days and still has about the same average as Waqar.
Do you think Waqar will be able to maintain his current Test and One Day Bowling average if he was to play as many Test and One Dayers as Wasim Akram.I don't think so.He has already been declared a "spentforce"
and "buDha" by people here.
Maintaining such spectacular average (or strike rate) over as long a period(and relatively far less injury prone) as Akram is what I call a long "consistent" performance.
Besides, Akram as far as I can remember has never sat on the bench for lack of performance while Waqar has.
Also, don't forget Wasim has often performed admirably with the bat too. He has infact a double century to his credit. That is what makes his career so much more spectacular.
[This message has been edited by chilli (edited May 23, 2001).]
72 test matches is a long enough career. Bradman played 52 tests. lille played 70 tests (has just 34 wkts more than waqar and lillee is considered all time great). marshall 81, michel holding has just 60 tests.
so even if waqar retires today, i would call it a long, spectacular and respectable and consistent career.
he has deteriorated in recent past. that may be temporary slump or maybe he goes out of team. still he remains a great bowler.
ZZ buddy... don't tell me about Bradman, I have radical opinions regarding him.
The key-word I thought was "consistent".
Waqar's career has been marked with highs and lows.
However I think I have said all that I had to say and will not stretch this any further.
[This message has been edited by chilli (edited May 23, 2001).]
The debate is not the relative merits and demerits of Waqar and Wasim, it is about the ability of Waqar to bowl inswingers. I have not seen the footage of the first test, but the last I saw of Waqar he was still able to bowl inswingers, though not necessarily with the same deadly precision he used to bowl in 1992.
Will Waqar ever be able to bowl they way he used to bowl in early 1990's?
He is a spectacular bowler with statistics to support it. If he can not bowl as fast as he used to, he still has experience. He should take the que from experienced bowlers like Holding, Hadlee, Walsh, Imran and maybe Wasim. Try to cut down the pace, and work more on accuracy, swing and off-the-pitch movement. Look at how Sarfaraz mesmerized the Aussies in 1979, without much great pace.
Wasim has been able to retain his ability to take wickets primarily because he had remodeled his bowling plan to cater to his physical problems. Plus he is perhaps the strongest bowler of our times in the sense that he can deliver a really really quick ball without a long run-up and without jumping in the air. His ability to generate pace by the strength of his wrists and his shoulders is amazing, and probably can not be replicated by everyone.
Re: why Wasim has never sat on the bench for lack of performance, well, that has more to do with political manevoring than anything else. In Pakistan, it counts a lot. The tussle which started between Wasim and Waqar in mid-90s meant that the one with more political clout will kick the other one out of the team, and Wasim won that round. Perhaps that also dented the 'consistency', abilities and record of Waqar. Remember, Waqar, at one time, openly accused Wasim of sabotaging his career. Power politics, what else?
[This message has been edited by Peacemaker (edited May 23, 2001).]
waquar is supposed to be retiring this year any way. i think the amount of time a bowler lasts depends on his action and waquar and wasim r the obvious examples.
'Hate your enemy mildly; he may become your friend one day' - Hadith
'as for those who are slain in the cause of allah, he will not allow their work to perish ... he will admit them to the paradise he has made known to them' - Surah 47:7
[quote]
Originally posted by khan_sahib:
**buDhay ho gaye hain bay charay (They are getting old)
**
[/quote]
team mein jaga pakki he darnaa kis baat se jab world cup haar gaye to ek test se kiya huwa.azhar mahmood ne apni jaga pakki karni thi to kese wickets lein us ne. ye sab politics he yaaron.
~~Hum aah bhi karte hein to ho jaate hein badnaam~~
~~Woh qatal bhi karte hein to charchaa nahi hotaa~~
Regarding Waqar's strike rate I will clarify that most of the wickets he has taken in the first 5 yrs of his career in the last five yrs he has taken only 30% of his total wickets. So this could not be termd as consistent.
If u see the moon
U will see a star near it