With the growing shortage of pilots in the Indian Air Force, and officers in the Indian Army - the IAF & IA may soon be forced to start a ‘Foreign Legionneres’ airforce & army division.
What do you think of such a force, would you join it?
Re: Want to be a pilot - join the IAF.
Pakistan should infiltrate through this God given option. Whoever made this policy is such an idiot that i wouldn't say anything coz its my second post on this forum.
Re: Want to be a pilot - join the IAF.
lolz is that really true? I mean I see lot of indians coming to america/canada and they're pilots..
Re: Want to be a pilot - join the IAF.
No this is not true - it's a scenario which may occur, if India cannot entice enough talent to the armed forces.
The French Foreign Legionneres have always fought well for france, even the Nepali's in the Indian force have always fought well.
What would your thoughts be, would Pakistanis join it as a 'mercenary'(Sp) and fight 'true to their salt' for India. If not, why not?
Re: Want to be a pilot - join the IAF.
obviously India will never allow pakistanis to join...
Re: Want to be a pilot - join the IAF.
Did you know that there were many Germans & even Japanese soldiers in the US Army. History has recorded that they all fought well during the 2nd World War.. In the 1800's Red Indians joined the French or British forces & fought against each other.
The Indians (Muslims & Hindus) in the British Army fought & died for the Empire - despite the Independence movement by the Indian people. The ex - Kashmiri Jihadis too have proved loyal and helped against the insurgency. People have a sense of loyality to their regiment / unit / mates / common cause.
I am sure a lot of Balochi's, Pastuns, sindhi's too may join. In fact I am also confident that some Punjabi's too might be interested.
Re: Want to be a pilot - join the IAF.
The Germans during the second world war, recruited Italians, Romanians, Hungarians, French and even English soldiers in the SS ??
Many people even thought that the IPL cricket would not work - since various players from opposing countries would play in the same team. But lets face it, people play for their team.
What do you think - will this work (an Indian army with foreign recruits)?
Re: Want to be a pilot - join the IAF.
Actually Malhot, you have an interesting point. Speaking from a strictly military point of view, this concept would be nothing new and the term mercenary soldier describes in itself what this would look like. The difference of ideology and nationality based on religion has made this look unique, however even within the Indo-Pak subcontinent it wasn't unheard of to find Hindu soldiers fighting as loyally in Tipu Sultan's army as Muslims in the armies of states ruled by many Hindu, Sikh royals. And this was present as recently as early 20th century. Even now Muslims serve Indian Military and Hindu, Sikh, Christians all loyally serve Pakistani Military, so religion is no big hurdle perhaps in the profession of arms? Next comes the importance of patriotism and nationalism; theoretically the situation between India and Pakistan with the partition and independence saga of 1947, it seem inconceivable for a Pakistani to serve an Indian force or an Indian to serve a Pakistani force. It's also diplomatically impossible as anyone willing to do so will have to abandon nationality first. But if an Indian origin British citizen joins the Pakistan Army or vice versa, will it be as impossible or inconceivable? Not quite. SO perhaps when it comes to commercializing of the profession of arms, you rightly exampled IPL and the over-commercializing of Cricket; the outcomes could be the same.
It's said nation, religion and ideology are great incentives, monetary reward has always been an even greater one. Many legendary warriors the world over have been mercenaries. The concept has been overshadowed by the religion, nation, ideology and now good and evil card. Plus the profession of arms when indulged in fighting for a certified noble cause such as defensive or ideological combat, is revered. When its indulged in monetary gains only it's looked down upon. It becomes pirates vs crusaders.
So while this can be, but what results and purpose it could practically achieve and serve would be a totally different thing. I think it won't work at all if the complete strategic and warfare doctrines of South Asia remain as they are. If there are some global strategic changes with large alliances being made, it might work and be productive. Otherwise there's so much involved between India and Pakistan that a single NCO from Pakistan in Indian Army or IAF would require an entire battalion of intelligence cover and vice versa.
Re: Want to be a pilot - join the IAF.
Haris - thanks for the in-depth analysis.
These foreign recruits could be initially stationed in the other trouble spots all around India, if they prove their loyality, well 'the sky is the limit'.
Re: Want to be a pilot - join the IAF.
With the growing shortage of pilots in the Indian Air Force, and officers in the Indian Army - the IAF & IA may soon be forced to start a 'Foreign Legionneres' airforce & army division.
What do you think of such a force, would you join it?
So how much does it pay for Pilots?.....is it like the French Foriegn legion?
Re: Want to be a pilot - join the IAF.
Once I checked the salaries, I realised why the IAF is struggling to get recruits. That salary is the pits!! (much too low)
http://armedforces.nic.in/airforce/joiniaf-offr.htm
Flying Officer Rs. 8,250-300-10,050
Flight Lieutenant- Rs. 9,600-300-11400
Squadron Leader-Rs. 11,600-325-14,850
Wing Commander-Rs. 13,500-400-17,100
Group Captain-Rs. 15,100-450-17,350
Air Commodore- Rs.16,700-450-18,050
Air Vice Marshal- Rs. 18,400-500-22,400
Air Marshal- Rs.22,400-525-24,500;
Air Marshal (AOC-in-C’s and VCAS)- Rs. 26,000 (fixed);
Chief of Air Staff- Rs. 30,000 (fixed).
Re: Want to be a pilot - join the IAF.
Great…I will hire the Chief of Air Staff and all the Air Marshalls…
Will have my very own Personal “SindSagar’s” AIR FORCE…:biggthumb
Re: Want to be a pilot - join the IAF.
I don’t think Pakistan Airforce pays any better than that either…I was told it is not the pay…it is the additional perks…subsidized housing…free car with chaufer..batman…free schooling for children and free Medical Care…add up all the perks…probably adds up to more than
One Lakh Rupees mer month…Right?
Re: Want to be a pilot - join the IAF.
" the pay structure is really a cause of concern but its not that alarming its not only salary that any defense personnel get, there are many other benefits that they are bound to get..canteens - frm where they get just abut anything at very nominal prices... free education for their children's...free accommodation...medical...and dozens of allowance and benefits they get..and above all Pride..."
cent percent agree with sindsagar
Re: Want to be a pilot - join the IAF.
Malhot any clue how recent this scale is. It does sound very low. As per my slight knowledge of officer pay scales in Pakistan these resemble the figures from mid-late 90s in Pakistan, particularly Wg Cdr/Lt Col and above.
But maybe the quoted scale is basic pay only exclusive of other allowances?
I also think that in both India and Pak special operations duty officers and men for eg pilots and commandos get a 30-40% extra allowance as compared to non flying /non special ops officers in the same ranks.
btw guys, while we’re at it, it’d be interesting to glance over pay scales from various different armies/forces of diff countries over the world and compare. Can anyone share more scales? :k:
Re: Want to be a pilot - join the IAF.
The pay in any country's armed forces is much lower than private sector salaries. My brother nearly joined the British Army but their officer pay was so much lower than what he could have made working in IT that he went into IT instead. (For which he was very grateful, because otherwise he'd have probably ended up having to serve in Iraq)
At any rate, I would be surprised a country would address shortage of pilots by recruiting foreigners. I haven't heard of any country that allows non-citizens to be pilots. Even Britain's Royal Air Force, which accepts all Commonwealth citizens, only allows British citizens to be pilots.
Instead, I would see India trying to hire non-Indians in non-flying roles, to free up Indian citizens to fly.
Re: Want to be a pilot - join the IAF.
An RAF fighter pilot makes only 33,000 pounds after completing training. By comparison, the driver of an subway train in the UK makes 38,000 pounds.
While admittedly a pilot’s pay would rise after promotions, whereas a subway driver doesn’t really have much scope for promotion, the raw fact is that after 1 year of working, a pilot risking his life in combat and flying a multimillionpound plane is less well compensated than someone driving public transportation that runs on a fixed track!!!
Re: Want to be a pilot - join the IAF.
*Monthly Income Monthly Income Yearly Income*
Flying Branch(Pilot/Navigators) Rs. 21,400 (Approx) Rs. 2.57 lacs
Technical Branch
(Electronics/Mechanical) Rs. 17,900 (Approx) Rs. 2.15 lacs
Ground Duty Branches Rs. 16,900 (Approx) Rs. 2.03 lacs
**** Gross Annual Income* (approx.)** **
RANK** Flying Branch Technical Branch Ground Duty Branches
Flight Lieutenant Rupees 3.11 lacs Rupees 2.75 lacs Rupees 2.45 lacs
Squadron Leader Rupees 3.97 lacs Rupees 3.43 lacs Rupees 3.13 lacs
Wing Commander Rupees 4.53 lacs Rupees 3.99 lacs Rupees 3.69 lacs
Group Captain Rupees 5.02 lacs Rupees 4.48 lacs Rupees 4.18 lacs
Air Commodore Rupees 5.30 lacs Rupees 4.97 lacs Rupees 4.67 lacs
these pay scales are somewhere near the actual pay of air force personnels
.
Re: Want to be a pilot - join the IAF.
^Hmm ipundit these sound quite accurate, and I think roughly this is what the Army officers in the equivalent ranks of Captain to Brigadier would be getting too. In the Navy I hear submarine service staff get an extra allowance like fliers too.
Re: Want to be a pilot - join the IAF.
The pay in any country's armed forces is much lower than private sector salaries. My brother nearly joined the British Army but their officer pay was so much lower than what he could have made working in IT that he went into IT instead. (For which he was very grateful, because otherwise he'd have probably ended up having to serve in Iraq)
At any rate, I would be surprised a country would address shortage of pilots by recruiting foreigners. I haven't heard of any country that allows non-citizens to be pilots. Even Britain's Royal Air Force, which accepts all Commonwealth citizens, only allows British citizens to be pilots.
Instead, I would see India trying to hire non-Indians in non-flying roles, to free up Indian citizens to fly.
I see Maddy, was your brother joining a combat or non-combat IT/Eng corps, and are both genres put through similar courses at Sandhurst? And do commonwealth citizens accepted have to have Brit citizenship and/or abandon dual nationality first?
An RAF fighter pilot makes only 33,000 pounds after completing training. By comparison, the driver of an subway train in the UK makes 38,000 pounds.
While admittedly a pilot's pay would rise after promotions, whereas a subway driver doesn't really have much scope for promotion, the raw fact is that after 1 year of working, a pilot risking his life in combat and flying a multimillionpound plane is less well compensated than someone driving public transportation that runs on a fixed track!!!!!
Wow you're right, sad comparison, I really find it sad and strange that military jobs even the most demanding ones such as combat flying have always paid far less than the pvt sector and I think majority of the officers and men are either allured by the thrill/passion for armed service or belong to sections of society which are indifferent to pay scales and also contrarily to those sections of society which find govt sponsored superior training opportunities, esteemed professional career and stability most important. But I feel the pay for military men should be competitive, what do you think is the main reason it's always less in every country?