how and why?
how and why?
Cactus don't grow roses
Re: virtues may become a product of vices
no, cactus does not grow roses. that is true. intelliphant.
the sentence was more to mean, could vice leads to vitrue?
i.e., its presence inspires trying out virtuosity.
because the extent of the destruction, grief, harm and poisonous emotions that vices create have been noted.
so, the only way now is to try honestly to be virtuous.
in this context, how soon an otherwise insensitive, criminal minded mind, may turn to being non-criminal and is no longer stooped is vices?
what factors may enable her/him to elevate their selves?
is it guilt, a true realization that life will change, if the intents and motives of actions changed or does the person need to feel the possibility of virtues serving to be a necessary savior for her/him now that after all of the vices s/he accumulated cannot get any worse?
I know there was a lot more in the question; let’s try to find the answer in a few questions that I am going to roll out;
Can we separate cause from effects?
Regardless of what our answer is to this question, do effects have a cascading impact on an individual’s personality?
Is the impact a mere reflection of nature or is it a reflection of nurture or a sundry of conditions at that very moment of impact for an individual?
How sustainable is the change that is brought about by an impact?
When and how conscience comes into play, do we require a catastrophic event to effectuate a meaningful and sententious change?
How an individual is related to a society, is one pious individual’s conduct enough to bring about change around him/her
Re: virtues may become a product of vices
very sagacious questions, intelliphant.
just like in education, when a rude student interfaces with one good conscientious teacher, the perspective becomes rally clear, as to the monumental and unending task of clearing up the student's concept of what it ought to be like to act half as decent as a LEARNER. sadly, all too frequently, teachers do find very condescending and rude students. either because they have their own in abilities that frustrate them, or because they prejudge their teacher for a whole number of reasons, including racial and gender related difference.
that is true in work places as most of us know.
what do you do? leave teaching or leave your work place?
NO.
the point being, while all is fine because we would like to believe that it is, the truth is that it is not right.
the virtuosity of a good, fair teacher can be only so productive as the gratitude and eagerness, at the receiving end.
there has to be an ENGENDERED culture of accepting and creating virtues.
you're right, unless that happens, ad hoc efforts of any one singular agent, person, an entity will gain only a little, and for only that time till that person keeps on breathing, living through and inspiring lives of other wise implicitly and explicitly bigoted ungrateful s.
societal structures are never the thing of a singular control.
that is why govts do not function at all.
the thorough side stepping of individual responsibility is the root cause of virtues having gone disappeared from our communities.
because ALONE, a good person is made to be valued as nothing.
the responsibility which ought to have been relegated to the individual self, just as much as to the collective, has to be revisited again.
which is why organized lobbying in case of political parties, labor unions, organized religious groups, or social / professional groups following one given position or leading person or another are becoming inapt. their core basis are not strong enough. they are loop holed in many ways.
as far as the cause and effect theory goes, the best thing i can refer to is the deficit model in perceptual and conceptual finesse, in the social milieu, the like minded and concerned clout's prowess
as well as the sad loss of all individual integrity, due to which people and societies today have to grapple with so many of their inherent vices, because they have gotten so in grained in the mind frames of everyone involved.
some totally mute and tune out the reality, others create and sustain the reality that is unfair and cruel. & still others are aloof or scared for petty selfish reasons. so all is a play ground for the foul vices and menacing through and through.
Re: virtues may become a product of vices
^ I am little confused Dushwari, are you drawing prallels between myself and the teacher or the student or that was completely a different thought, we will keep talking about this subject.
Re: virtues may become a product of vices
nope, no allusion to you intelliphant. my reply is with only abstract perspectives, on the perspective which you invited me to contribute to.
the topic is indeed interesting - how does knowledge become a bad thing, basically, if i get this query right which you have asked at the start of the thread.
there is no way to justify the bad use fo knowledge.
knowledge becoming and viewed as such becomes a topic demanding our thoughtful reflection is when we have the dilemma: whether knowledge is absolutely bad, because at some point its use becomes bad?
and this is a question that can really benefit from real thinking through before we or anyone can make a assertive answer to it to claim or blame knowledge as good still after its one time or repeated use has been actually an abuse or no-good from the get go, because its use at somepoint became bad.
makes sense?
In my humble opinion knowledge is “liquid” in nature, a transparent jelly like structure that takes the shape of our intentions; it is neither good nor bad till put to some specific use. World is nothing but a humongous pyramid of possibilities, none of them has an insignia of good or bad, it is only when some one expands the possibility, observes its impact and register the impact in his conscious as “good” or “bad”, and later passes on to others that information as “knowledge”. In that backdrop, knowledge is just like a torch that can illuminate the path way, but can’t dictate us to walk the right way.
The definition of right and wrong, good and bad has always been purposely kept controvertible, we all percolate things through the strainer of our bias and justify what is not even tenable. Who would think that research that medical doctors and psychologists did in the filed of human pain threshold would be used in “mob controlling” techniques, in breaking the will of captives and in inflicting excruciating pains without leaving any mark of physical abuse. The fission of human being using the exothermic fission reaction is an abuse of knowledge not without a malintention and not with out perceived impact and conceived results.
No form of knowledge whether it is divine or acquired is, in essence and by design, strong and attractive enough to dictate us to stay on the path of righteousness, it is against the very nature of free will of human being, against the very nature of concept of the life hereafter.
Re: virtues may become a product of vices
the crystalization of knowlege does not have to mean, its rigidity.
sometimes, tenable becomes perishable - burnt books, destroyed minds and free will, free spirits that mean no harm, but have a non normative way of proving, disproving, and creating original and new knowledge.
change is permanent about knowledge. it is not a fixed fact, at least not so long. its remains are always grounded in a story.
its built up is on foundations that may have taken many strenuous lives.
knowledge or the act of knowing does not have to be leading one to disbelief of faith.
faith, in fact is very adventurous. it makes time on this earth, unbound..