Hope these 5 butchers are caught and ...
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*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
Who in the Muslim world will be fired for this?
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Here we go again? Imdad mian, Tell me who is inhcarge of Iraq again?
The above commenst are to show your stupidity, I do not condone these acts. These are barbaric, terrible and sickening. However, morons like you keep their mouths shut when the shoe is on the other foot or try to come up with excuses to defend such beahvior. (your response to prisoners photos).
What makes IA's comment so stupid is the precise counter point of it. There is no one to be held responsible outside of those who committed the crime. There was no organizational hierarchy mandating this. You can argue that crazy mullahs are to blame, they are. But there is no chain of command leading down to these criminals. They had no check over this group's actions. What differentiates the two cases is that the American one had a chain of command up to a certain height actively supporting the actions and above that the chain was supposed to check the activities of its subordinates. These Iraqis carried this out on their own, they may have had moral support elsewhere, but no organizational support and no one who could have intervened to prevent the action. Your point is too broad to be applicable.
MV, your point that this can desensitize people is sadly true. But it is not and cannot be an excuse. That leads to the Israeli-Palestinian cycle of action/reaction.
Americans can groan that the other side does not hold to any kind of morality. But that does not excuse us from doing so. Quite the contrary. America is the greater force in all statistical terms. It should also be capable of being the greater force in moral terms when the other side seems unwilling to be such. This is not a case where unilateral disarmament will lead to our defeat. We have other means at our disposal, stooping to barbarian levels is not a necessity. As we have seen, doing so leads more quickly toward defeat than following the moral processes. Caving into desensitization can be comforting in a vengeful way, but it certainly is not practical.. or excusable.
The reality is that the Americans are gonna say that the Iraqis deserve such treatment now because they are barbaric for carrying out such an attack. The abuse seems to have been diverted.
The Iraqis in turn will most probably say, 'there's plenty more where that came from'.
However, if you look at it in perspective, the Iraqis will show the execution to the world in open forum, whereas the Americans will execute in private.(unless you're in Texas that is).
Ratio wise, the Americans are still way ahead in murders/executions.
A vicious cycle has now erupted.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by spoon: *
MV, your point that this can desensitize people is sadly true. But it is not and cannot be an excuse. That leads to the Israeli-Palestinian cycle of action/reaction.
Americans can groan that the other side does not hold to any kind of morality. But that does not excuse us from doing so. Quite the contrary. America is the greater force in all statistical terms. It should also be capable of being the greater force in moral terms when the other side seems unwilling to be such. This is not a case where unilateral disarmament will lead to our defeat. We have other means at our disposal, stooping to barbarian levels is not a necessity. As we have seen, doing so leads more quickly toward defeat than following the moral processes. Caving into desensitization can be comforting in a vengeful way, but it certainly is not practical.. or excusable.
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Spoon:
I concur with this. Thus, I referred to the US Senator as an idiot. The desensitizing WILL lead to excuse among many. And the more broadly the brush is painted to include more who can be categorized under the same umbrella as the five monsters in masks, the more that can be excusably abused. Heck, I'm a pretty level headed person and I can think of a lot worse things I'd let happen to the terrorist who cut off this poor guy's head than make him masturbate for the camera. I wouldn't shed a tear or be the least bit outraged if ** HE ** was humiliated in this way. So I guess I've been dehumanized and desensitized to an extent as well.
I kind of thought you would.. that was more for someone else's consumption :)
But, no, I agree on the emotion for revenge. I don't think I'd hesitate in doing some bad s*** to these guys. And I don't really think we have to step away from that. But we cannot let that emotion spread to other people than those known to be guilty. Simply being in prison does not speak guilt. So I think that's the danger in succumbing to desensitization.. it can be good if it helps you carry out your duty as a soldier: punish the guilty; but the first time it moves beyond that, when you start seeing everyone as complicit it can be nothing but trouble.
how can they do this!!! how can they really kill an innocent man..they know that he didn't harm them or abused iraqis but they still kill him..and killed him like this
*******s
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*Originally posted by ehsan: *
This is terrible, disgusting and shocking.
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Chickens coming home to roost.
This is just 
How can they do this.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by spoon: *
What makes IA's comment so stupid is the precise counter point of it. There is no one to be held responsible outside of those who committed the crime. There was no organizational hierarchy mandating this. You can argue that crazy mullahs are to blame, they are. But there is no chain of command leading down to these criminals. They had no check over this group's actions. What differentiates the two cases is that the American one had a chain of command up to a certain height actively supporting the actions and above that the chain was supposed to check the activities of its subordinates. These Iraqis carried this out on their own, they may have had moral support elsewhere, but no organizational support and no one who could have intervened to prevent the action. Your point is too broad to be applicable.
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Spoon,
I think thats why Imdad's comment generated stupid replies. And maybe mine could be voted the "most ......!"
But I make it anyway..
Imdad asked, " What muslim leader will be fired for this?"
I understood his statement pointing to the fact that Americans are at least holding hearings and questioning abuses.
I didn't find Imdad's comment offensive. I took it in the sense that ... what muslim leadership is effectively condemning that action.
Imdad said in response to Sholay's comment:
And that is exactly what will never happen, since these terrorist groups live in shadows.
Sholay's comment was:
Bush, Rumsfield, Blair and Hoon were questioned about the West's abuse and it's only fair that the head of this group whoever it is and the second in command be questioned. There you have it.
I didn't understand Imdad's comments as stating support for such ghastly behavior or support for terror cells.
AAG, you’re comment is not stupid. 
Imdad is a fan of the tu quoque logical fallacy. He never fails in using it. His arguments are too often simple retorts without much forethought or substance. If he had started out by lamenting the fact that these criminals “live in shadows” and thus have no punishable oversight officials, that could have been the start of a decent debate (I think he ultimately would have lost, but it would be reasonable). Instead he goes for simple prodding of a touchy issue.
utd... pls have mercy on us. S&M is one thing, but this is hardcore stuff, man. Pls don't post links to the video. Thanks.
There was massive and justified outrage caused by the Iraqi photos and by the video of the gunship killings, why are photos and videos of Americans doing things that cause outrage allowed but not this?
If an American GI slits the throat of an Iraqi and the video is available on the internet... surely a link to that won't be permitted on GS. Its not a matter of bias, its just too gory. Still pics of this event can be posted (sans the gory images of the hooded guy holding the cut head in his hands).
Beheading of the American citizen video
I didn't watch the video posted by UTD. Daniel Pearl one was enough. This one looks like he was even alive. Anyway, the point is that what do these guys intend to achieve? After watching anything as disturbing as such, it arouses more feelings of hatred and disgust towards them and their cause (whatever that may be) so what's the f'ing point? I don't think it scares anyone at all. May be some astray foreign worker/visitor in Iraq or some other such place, to pack the bags and get outta there but is that what they want to achieve? How stupid is it really?
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*Originally posted by sholay: *
Unfortunately it seems like a 'dog eat dog' scenario.
You abuse us, we kill you. You kill us, we abuse you. You abuse us, we abuse you. You kill us, we kill you. We kill you, you kill us. We abuse you, you abuse us. We kill you, you abuse us. We abuse you, you kill us.
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That is one of the best comments!
But I don't agree with you when you say that Americans have executed more people than Iraqis have. That's a matter of perception, not fact, surely? What about the daily suicide bombings and other attacks carried out by terrorists, and all those people the Saddam family killed?
The video is now available on kazaa... These guys took the head off after slitting the throat, as if they had done it like a thousand times before. Butchers.
In chechnya and afghanistan, mujahideen had done this to their prisoners many times, so maybe they do have experience. Of course the russians weren't any better.
These "people" have no morality. Bombing in Karachi of shia mosque to this beheading. It is not for any cause worth mentioning. It is simply to create terror.
The American war machine kills a lot of people, sometimes innocent as happens in war, but by and large it does not celebrate brutality or kill meaninglessly like these people like to do. There is still some honour in the death of a solider on the battlefield, what honour is in this?