When President Mushraff decided to take a U turn on Afghanistan issue after 9/11 he raised a slogan of “Fist Pakistan-Then Islamic Ummah or any thing else”. So how many of us find themselves compatible with this policy? Do you guys think that this is the right foreign policy from a long-term standpoint or do you guys think it is shortsightedness?
I have lived in Libya for 6 years and in Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries for almost 5 years. I have not find one single Muslim country to be that sentimental about ISLAMIC UMMAH concept except Pakistan. Yeah there is a general feeling about other Muslims but there is no special feeling about one big Islamic umma. In fact, I always found regional and racial back ground to be more important in those countries than being a part of one big Islamic Ummah. I remember one of my Tunisian friend to be very upset when some one used to categorize him as an Arabic Muslim. He used to say, “ hey I am African”. Moreover, in Middle East we all know how proud Arabs are about their ethnic background. Nevertheless, when you come to Pakistan, every one is jumping around for whole Islamic ummah concept. Iqbal’s message has infiltrated into Pakistani nation’s psyche that we Muslims are like one body and if one organ is in pain, then the whole body will be in pain. Do you guys feel this idea to be quite poetic or do you guys find it realistic?
Yea I do sound against this idea but I also remember all the help, which Saudi Arabia provided us being a Muslim brother country. Not to mention it provided us free oil for almost 5 years after our nuclear explosions. In addition, I remember Indonesia’s open offer to help during 1965 war. …any thoughts…. And i know there is nothing new in this thread but honestly i am little confused…Thanks
There could be some aspect of mutual affinity between co-religionists behind the fantasizing of one Ummah. But the other major reason is pyschological, every human wants to be respected, to have power, to feel self worthy. One Ummah dream is thus used for the same means. Right now most Muslim countries are technologically lagging, financially dependent and thus have to constantly suffer arm-bending by bigger powers. Thus this thought that if we can all unite, we can be a major power, and dictate terms to the world etc etc. The less confidence the country has in its own powers the more it would dream of such a occurance. (though not reflecting anything on Pakistan)
First of all, whatmakes me a proud of being a Pakistani is because of the concept of ummah and Islamic nationhood on which Pakistan was created. Pakistan itself comprises 5 main nationilities. We are one because we are Muslims. So that explains why this concept is so much deep and still alive and will always be in Pakistan inshaAllah. I am proud of this!
Secondly, its not Iqbal only who came up with thsi idea. Jamal Al Din Afghani was the greatest supporter of pan-islamism. he devoted his whole life to it.
If Pakistanis are mad about the ummah concept then they are the best people in the Muslim world and others must learn from us. We should be proud we are like this.
The Qur’anic declaration,
*"The Believers are but a Single Brotherhood." [AlHujarat, 49:10]. *
The Qur’anic command,
*"Hold fast together the Rope that Allah has extended for you and do not dispute among yourselves." [Aale-Imran, 3:103]. *
*"Muslims are one body. If any part of the body is suffering the whole body feels the pain." *
So what are we shy about. Be happy....!!!maybe Allah has chosen us to lead!
I would add that the reason why so many non Pakistani Muslims are not so strong abou this concept is because first our unity was broken by the concept of nationalism. Pakistan was not created on nationalism but Islamic brotherhood.
You may say that these are the darm ages of muslims. We are all disunited. But do not lose hope. I see things getting better. Many Islamic countries such as those in the middle east were created by the west on the basis of nationalism.
First comes Turkey of Ataturk- created on the basis of Turk nationalism. Its disgraced in teh world and its being spitted upon by European Union. On top of that its still dying to enter EU, as if its teh way to salvation.
Then come the petty Arab states. States like bahrain, qatar, and the list goes on were never even there 50 years ago. Then came the wave of Arab nationalism by jamal Abdunasir in Egypt. For this they paid. I think Allah gave them disgrace at the hands of zionists. They were defeated by a small new born israel. Their stupid leader forgot the meaning of Islamic nationhood and did not realize the strength in unity.
I am not saying all these people are misguided. There are many good people everyewhere who are against nationalism.
Pakistan is unique in this. It is our job to tell our Muslim brothers and unite the Muslim world. We may use media to do this. It takes time but its worth it.
^ False premise because reality is that Nationhood took precedence over Islamic brotherhood a mere 24 years after the creation of Pakistan. Furthermore, more muslims now live in India than Pakistan. So obviously the concept of nationhood is nearer and dearer to these folks. In fact, to the west of Pakistan is Afghanistan, which is not to sure about this leadership quality that you keep harping about in Pakistan.
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*Originally posted by Matsui: *
^ False premise because reality is that Nationhood took precedence over Islamic brotherhood a mere 24 years after the creation of Pakistan. Furthermore, more muslims now live in India than Pakistan. So obviously the concept of nationhood is nearer and dearer to these folks. In fact, to the west of Pakistan is Afghanistan, which is not to sure about this leadership quality that you keep harping about in Pakistan.
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It was the Indian hegemony that succeded. Pakistan and Bangladesh are still one nation as Muslims. We still are brothers, just living in separate houses. Since you Hindoos happen to be in the middle.
Actually it was Indian nationalism that was torn to pieces in 1947!!!!
Had you been so successful, Bangladesh would have been India by now.
Long live Muslim Ummah!
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*Originally posted by Matsui: *
Pakistanhas succeeded because of the concept of nationalism. It is the concept of islamic brotherhood that has failed it over andover again.
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It is a waste of time talking to matsuis and rvikzs and what not....all indian...same brand....same crap
We have been one nation because of Islam. Punjabis differ from Pathans in so many ways. Yet we ar eone nation.
Well, think about it some time. The greatness of Islam in uniting the mankind under one beautiful and only way of life, how we gather in one place every year without thinking of nationality. You would not find it anywhere.
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*Originally posted by Matsui: *
Actually India is part of a new movement. The nations that look to the future. Unlike hoping for some bygone pipedreams of ummah etal.
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The nations that took to the future with borrowed western ideas and AIDS.
Islamabad, you know jack about Pakistani brotherhood. You must be an import. There’s no love between Punjabis and Sindhis. What exactly are you? As a Punjabi, I feel closer to Indian Punjabis than to Baluchis.
AIDS is not a western phenomenon, a lot of african muslims die each year, go to malaysia, even Pakistan witht he drug addicts languishing without treatment..this is a global scourge not a phenomenbon or stranglehold of one culture. You know little about it…stop before you embarass yourself with showcasing how tolerant your muslim ummah is.
And there is nothing wrong with western ideas and leveraging it to better the lives of a people. While you sleep and dream of some white elephant of khilafah, most of the world is driving right by.
It is a waste of time talking to matsuis and rvikzs and what not....all indian...same brand....same crap
We have been one nation because of Islam. Punjabis differ from Pathans in so many ways. Yet we ar eone nation.
Well, think about it some time. The greatness of Islam in uniting the mankind under one beautiful and only way of life, how we gather in one place every year without thinking of nationality. You would not find it anywhere.
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who has the most diverse gene pool
i am asking
you from land of the pure
Do you think thats funny? If youre so full of hate for non-muslims in India, then think about the muslims in India sufferring from AIDS? Laughing over people who arent sure whether they will live to see another day is not what Islam teaches us.
Guys i am afraid that as usual we are heading towards another indo-pak outburst......please keep your posts more productive with no attacks on each other's religon or race.
To make my point clear, there was absloutly no need to attack Ganga River and in respond to that some one could be little more patient before making fun of islamic Kalifah....such things simply kill the true spirit of a healthy discussion. You guys do a great job by providing an intelligent feed back...so keep it up with no negativity...thanks a lot.... and keep posting and enjoy yourself...
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*Originally posted by phoenixdesi: *
Guys i am afraid that as usual we are heading towards another indo-pak outburst......please keep your posts more productive with no attacks on each other's religon or race.
To make my point clear, there was absloutly no need to attack Ganga River and in respond to that some one could be little more patient before making fun of islamic Kalifah....such things simply kill the true spirit of a healthy discussion. You guys do a great job by providing an intelligent feed back...so keep it up with no negativity...thanks a lot.... and keep posting and enjoy yourself...
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if there is no indians how boring life would be
for pakistanis whom would you fight ?
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*Originally posted by phoenixdesi: *
When President Mushraff decided to take a U turn on Afghanistan issue after 9/11 he raised a slogan of “Fist Pakistan-Then Islamic Ummah or any thing else”. So how many of us find themselves compatible with this policy? Do you guys think that this is the right foreign policy from a long-term standpoint or do you guys think it is shortsightedness?
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Regarding the u-turn on Afghanistan, i think we had no option. Ofcourse it is wrong to help in geeting a Muslim country bombed or in fact any country bombed because there are civilians in it. Since we Muslims are weak, so I think what Musharraf did was the only option left. So we cannot say anything about it. We must be strong first and united with the rest of the Muslim world to stand up for our rights.
My issue with using the past as a model is that if it was a model it would have stayed intact. Governance though faith is not only a muslim concept. It was prevalent through out human history, while most of the world has decided to separate the two concepts, it is a legacy that I believe is going to keep the muslim world in the dark ages.
Now let me lay out the distinction. I think the concept of ummah is great. All muslims should and would feel close to each other because it is an aspect of their being. That does not mean that that feeling supercedes nationalist affinities, cultural, linguisitc etc. Because in todays world these attibutes ensure unity moreso than dogma.
Chew on this…I shall return after the commercial break…
